GW relief line service after Crossrail

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TheWalrus

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I see the proposal during the peaks is:
- 2tph to Maidenhead
- 2tph to Reading
- 4tph to Heathrow
- 2tph to West Drayton
- 2tph to Reading (semi-fast)
- 1tpd to Henley and Bourne End

How are they expecting to fit all of these in on the relief lines?

Also if stock is available during the day why not run an hourly off-peak London Paddington-Bourne End/Henley service, giving a faster service to London from places like Taplow and Burnham?
 
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anthony263

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I think all the lines out of Paddington are going to be stretched to the limit if this happens.

The 4tph to Heathrow is that from Paddington or Reading?
 

swt_passenger

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I think all the lines out of Paddington are going to be stretched to the limit if this happens.

The 4tph to Heathrow is that from Paddington or Reading?

4 tph to Heathrow is from the Crossrail tunnels, replacing the 2 tph Heathrow Connect. It doesn't seem that ambitious a timetable for a two track railway which is mainly an all stations service, it is only 12 tph (plus the odd extra single train per day to Henley and Bourne End).
 

anthony263

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So it seems the 2Tph semi fast from Reading along with those from Henley & bourne end will be the only ones not operated by crossrail
 

swt_passenger

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So it seems the 2Tph semi fast from Reading along with those from Henley & bourne end will be the only ones not operated by crossrail

Yes, that has been the service pattern shown on Crossrail's website since very soon after the decision to extend to Reading was announced.

Shown in text and in table form on Crossrail's website here, you'll need to scroll down:

Other operators’ services {i.e. FGW} are assumed to be:

2 trains per hour from Reading calling at Twyford, Maidenhead, Slough and Ealing Broadway to Paddington;
1 through train from Henley on Thames to Paddington; and
1 through train from Bourne End to Paddington

http://www.crossrail.co.uk/route/surface/western-section/
 

455driver

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I see the proposal during the peaks is:
- 2tph to Maidenhead
- 2tph to Reading
- 4tph to Heathrow
- 2tph to West Drayton
- 2tph to Reading (semi-fast)
- 1tpd to Henley and Bourne End

How are they expecting to fit all of these in on the relief lines?

Easily!
look at the slow lines in and out of Waterloo!
 

A-driver

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I see the proposal during the peaks is:

- 2tph to Maidenhead

- 2tph to Reading

- 4tph to Heathrow

- 2tph to West Drayton

- 2tph to Reading (semi-fast)

- 1tpd to Henley and Bourne End



How are they expecting to fit all of these in on the relief lines?



Also if stock is available during the day why not run an hourly off-peak London Paddington-Bourne End/Henley service, giving a faster service to London from places like Taplow and Burnham?


Roughly 1 train every 4mins. Not too bad really, 4mins is a long time.
 

Class 170101

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In the peaks I understood only 14tph would run beyond Paddington with 10 terminating at Paddington from the crossrail tunnels.
 

evergreenadam

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So it seems the 2Tph semi fast from Reading along with those from Henley & bourne end will be the only ones not operated by crossrail

Would it be possible for the semi-fast to be operated by Crossrail? The stopping pattern would not conform to the all stations norm, but it could be operated like the Metropolitan Line in the peaks. Otherwise passengers for Maidenhead etc will find their departing services split across two different levels at Paddington which will be an inconvenience.
 

AM9

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Would it be possible for the semi-fast to be operated by Crossrail? The stopping pattern would not conform to the all stations norm, but it could be operated like the Metropolitan Line in the peaks. Otherwise passengers for Maidenhead etc will find their departing services split across two different levels at Paddington which will be an inconvenience.

It would also complicate passenger information shown in the core about westbound trains. As it is there will be trains terminating at Paddington, Heathrow, Maidenhead and West Drayton, with a posibility of Tring. The additional variable of where the trains stop would cause much confusion and probably create uneven loading of trains and erratic clearing of the platforms.
The inconvenience for Maidenhead passengers would be insignificant. They would be getting a much faster 'slow' service - even to Paddington, many of them starting empty at Maidenhead, and if that isn't good enough for them thay can pack onto the intermediates and change at Paddington. They have a much better choice than at present.
Maybe, if HS2 goes ahead as planned, and a major interchange is created at OOC, the service pattern may have a similarity to that via Stratford on the GEML, where most trains will top there giving a faster interchange to Crossrail (plus other services, e.g. DLR, Tube, Overground) but changing the whole concept of regular, faster all-stops Crossrail would be another case of small subsections of GWML commuters being the tail that wags the dog*.

* The next complaint would be that the class 345s' metro seating wasn't comfy enough for intermediate distance commuters!
 

TheWalrus

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Problem is the semi-fast GW services catching up with stopping Crossrail services.
 

swt_passenger

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In the peaks I understood only 14tph would run beyond Paddington with 10 terminating at Paddington from the crossrail tunnels.
It's the other way round. Until there are any additional services, 14 of the peak services will terminate at Paddington, with only 10 continuing beyond.

As a matter of detail though, they will all run west of Paddington station itself, the 'terminators' reversing in a pair of turn back platforms between the up and down relief lines at Westbourne Park. Apparently this way they won't have to check the trains are empty before leaving Paddington.
 
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Class 170101

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It's the other way round. Until there are any additional services, 14 of the peak services will terminate at Paddington, with only 10 continuing beyond.

As a matter of detail though, they will all run west of Paddington station itself, the 'terminators' reversing in a pair of turn back platforms between the up and down relief lines at Westbourne Park. Apparently this way they won't have to check the trains are empty before leaving Paddington.

Seems like an even stronger case for putting some of the High Level Paddington semi fasts described above into the core.
 

AM9

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Seems like an even stronger case for putting some of the High Level Paddington semi fasts described above into the core.

Even if the doors were compatible with the PEDs, there wouldn't be the paths for them. Passengers now are used to alighting at Paddington and getting a cab or a tube to a central London destination. In future, the same options will be enhanced with the availability of Crossrail which will probably be faster both in travelling time and in terms of interchange. What is their problem?
 

Rich McLean

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Would it be possible for the semi-fast to be operated by Crossrail? The stopping pattern would not conform to the all stations norm, but it could be operated like the Metropolitan Line in the peaks. Otherwise passengers for Maidenhead etc will find their departing services split across two different levels at Paddington which will be an inconvenience.

The Semi-Fasts run to Oxford, calling at all shacks west of Reading
 

swt_passenger

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The Semi-Fasts run to Oxford, calling at all shacks west of Reading

I was just going to mention that as well. It isn't simply a case of transferring another pair of Reading to Paddington services to Crossrail, unless you also break those services from the west at Reading.

I think this was discussed at length in a previous thread (about the time Crossrail was extended to Reading). Making it a 4 tph service to/from Reading sounds straightforward but would have a major impact on the service patterns further up the Thames Valley.

Running Crossrail stock as far as Oxford certainly isn't likely, and neither is running non-Crossrail stock into the tunnels...
 

JamesRowden

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I was just going to mention that as well. It isn't simply a case of transferring another pair of Reading to Paddington services to Crossrail, unless you also break those services from the west at Reading.

I think this was discussed at length in a previous thread (about the time Crossrail was extended to Reading). Making it a 4 tph service to/from Reading sounds straightforward but would have a major impact on the service patterns further up the Thames Valley.

Running Crossrail stock as far as Oxford certainly isn't likely, and neither is running non-Crossrail stock into the tunnels...

Reading the Western Route Study draft, it seems to recommend an eventual relief line service between Maidenhead and Slough of:
  • 2tph Maidenhead to Crossrail
  • 4tph Reading to Crossrail
  • 2tph East West Rail to Paddington via Heathrow (fasts east of Heathrow)
  • 2tph Basingstoke to Paddington via Heathrow (fasts east of Heathrow) (1tph possibly extended to Bournemouth or Southampton)
  • 2tph Freight

The Oxford to Paddington stoppers would be able to run fast east of Reading if they aren't merged with the East West Rail services.

Therefore, it seems likely that the service will switch to something like this once Western Access to Heathrow opens and the present Heathrow Express deal ends.
 

bramling

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I was just going to mention that as well. It isn't simply a case of transferring another pair of Reading to Paddington services to Crossrail, unless you also break those services from the west at Reading.

I think this was discussed at length in a previous thread (about the time Crossrail was extended to Reading). Making it a 4 tph service to/from Reading sounds straightforward but would have a major impact on the service patterns further up the Thames Valley.

Running Crossrail stock as far as Oxford certainly isn't likely, and neither is running non-Crossrail stock into the tunnels...

I still wonder that from a practical point of view the original planned western terminus of Maidenhead was more workable, with Crossrail taking the relief lines inwards of there, and the remaining Paddington trains generally running fast to at least Slough and using the fast lines, with either Slough or Maidenhead being used as an interchange between the two. You would lost direct services to Reading from most of the intermediate stations however.

Whatever, I'm sure the Crossrail setup will work rather better than Thameslink, where the mix of stopping patterns, multiple routes and a non-purpose-built core is bound to cause problems.
 

ChiefPlanner

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The original Crossrail TT (from 199x) was 4 toh semi-fast Reading , 2 semi -semi fast Maidenhead and 4 Slough +2 all stations from Hayes and Harlington) - peak only .....

I think I have it in the shed....(+ 2 75mph freight paths + the odd 60 mph freight path)
 
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