GWR Class 165/166 Turbo Diagrams

[RPI]

Did the iet go up to Barnstaple?

No, sorry, should have been clearer. The Barny part was I believe a 166 which aren't passed beyond Exmouth Junction on the Southern.

 

[150249]

No, sorry, should have been clearer. The Barny part was I believe a 166 which aren't passed beyond Exmouth Junction on the Southern.

That's a shame

 

[Jim]

I think the issue is 2 car units are often daily occurrence on that route, and fairly often on more than one diagram - and the capacity issues have been made even worse by the Bath Market.

A quick look on JourneyCheck a couple of Fridays ago showed 3 services in a row short formed to 2 coaches with reports of them being full and standing from Fratton or Southampton towards Bristol. GWR may have their hands tied with aging (and seemingly increasingly unreliable) stock, but it’s the passengers who suffer. Would be good if the short forming was shared out with other routes as it seems the Cardiff - Portsmouth passengers have to put up with more than their fair share of it!

A 2 car 158 vice a 3 car Turbo on Severn Beach peak time trains is totally unsuitable too though.

Whatever is done has a negative consequence for somewhere sadly.

 

[Siemens Staines]

Unusually, it looks like the 166 on the 0652 Worcester Foregate St - Didcot was not swapped over with the 165129 on the down service at Shrub Hill and 166204 is running through to Didcot

06:43 Hereford to London Paddington due 09:38 will call additionally at Shipton, Finstock and Combe.
06:52 Worcester Foregate Street to Didcot Parkway due 08:45 will no longer call at Shipton, Finstock and Combe.
This is due to a fault on this train.
Will be formed of 3 coaches instead of 2.

Realtime Trains | 2E80 0652 Worcester Foregate Street to Didcot Parkway | 01/12/2022

Real-time train running information for 2E80 0652 departure from Worcester Foregate Street to Didcot Parkway on 01/12/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Jim]

Unusually, it looks like the 166 on the 0652 Worcester Foregate St - Didcot was not swapped over with the 165129 on the down service at Shrub Hill and 166204 is running through to Didcot

06:43 Hereford to London Paddington due 09:38 will call additionally at Shipton, Finstock and Combe.
06:52 Worcester Foregate Street to Didcot Parkway due 08:45 will no longer call at Shipton, Finstock and Combe.
This is due to a fault on this train.
Will be formed of 3 coaches instead of 2.

Realtime Trains | 2E80 0652 Worcester Foregate Street to Didcot Parkway | 01/12/2022

Real-time train running information for 2E80 0652 departure from Worcester Foregate Street to Didcot Parkway on 01/12/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Bearing in mind that a Turbo can call at places like Avoncliff that are local door only, I don't really understand in a way why the same practice of the guard controlling just one door, cannot be used for these on an ad-hoc basis.

 

[Snow1964]

Some unusually long formations on Cardiff-Portsmouth today (although only going to Fareham) according to Real time traiins

1F07 Bristol-Fareham 8 cars to Southampton (formed CBAEDCBA)
1F13 Cardiff-Fareham 7cars between Bristol and Westbury

Some platforms only really fit 5.5 cars (nearer 6 if driver stops by platform ramp) so staff at Bath Spa will have to be on the ball to ensure no one gets stranded in back unit if getting off at some smaller stations.

 

[CC 72100]

Some unusually long formations on Cardiff-Portsmouth today (although only going to Fareham) according to Real time traiins

1F07 Bristol-Fareham 8 cars to Southampton (formed CBAEDCBA)
1F13 Cardiff-Fareham 7cars between Bristol and Westbury

Some platforms only really fit 5.5 cars (nearer 6 if driver stops by platform ramp) so staff at Bath Spa will have to be on the ball to ensure no one gets stranded in back unit if getting off at some smaller stations.

I'd anticipate the rear unit to be locked out, as the route is built around a 5 car max model as that is what most of the platforms can fix.

Door release options are 1 door or whole train, so the Bath situation for other stops can't arise.

Sounds like a unit positioning move to save on an ECS to me.

 

[Snow1964]

I'd anticipate the rear unit to be locked out, as the route is built around a 5 car max model as that is what most of the platforms can fix.

Door release options are 1 door or whole train, so the Bath situation for other stops can't arise.

Sounds like a unit positioning move to save on an ECS to me.

Not easy to lock out rear unit on a train from Cardiff, as it reverses at Bristol

 

[Siemens Staines]

166220 has appeared on Thames Valley diagrams

Sunday
2B90 2200 Cheltenham Spa to Swindon
5B90 2316 Swindon to St Philips Mrsh H S T D (cancelled)

Monday
5L08 0540 Swindon to Reading
2L08 0624 Reading to Oxford

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Dec 2022 ==

I notice that from the new timetable that the 0652 from Worcester Foregate St goes to Weymouth instead of Didcot, and the 0510 Oxford to Worcester Shrub Hill returns as the 0701 Worcester Shrub Hill to Didcot. This will end the daily swap of 2-car 165s between West and the Thames Valley. Unless the swap is accomplished elsewhere that I have not noticed, which is quite possible, the two turbo fleets will return to being independent of one another?

 

[JN114]

the two turbo fleets will return to being independent of one another?

For the foreseeable at least, there might be some adhoc swapping about of sets to put the right units in the right places in the short term

 

[Siemens Staines]

Thank you for your reply. I guess this is a knock on effect attributal to the delays with the 769 programme, which I thought was the original reason for creating the fleet inter working?

The Thames Valley really seem to be suffering with 165 shortages at the moment. I am not sure what this is on journeycheck today;

16:20 Didcot Parkway to Oxford due 16:32
17:07 Oxford to Didcot Parkway due 17:24
17:34 Didcot Parkway to Banbury due 18:23
18:36 Banbury to Didcot Parkway due 19:23
19:37 Didcot Parkway to Oxford due 19:52
20:37 Didcot Parkway to Banbury due 21:24
Will be formed of 1 coach instead of 2.
Last Updated:08/12/2022 04:03

At least it is one more coach than the a.m peak part of the diagram which is 0 coaches.

 

[RPI]

Thank you for your reply. I guess this is a knock on effect attributal to the delays with the 769 programme, which I thought was the original reason for creating the fleet inter working?

The Thames Valley really seem to be suffering with 165 shortages at the moment. I am not sure what this is on journeycheck today;

16:20 Didcot Parkway to Oxford due 16:32
17:07 Oxford to Didcot Parkway due 17:24
17:34 Didcot Parkway to Banbury due 18:23
18:36 Banbury to Didcot Parkway due 19:23
19:37 Didcot Parkway to Oxford due 19:52
20:37 Didcot Parkway to Banbury due 21:24
Will be formed of 1 coach instead of 2.
Last Updated:08/12/2022 04:03

At least it is one more coach than the a.m peak part of the diagram which is 0 coaches.

Formed of 1 coach instead of 2? Either a mistake, or its a 2 car turbo with one coach locked out of use!

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Formed of 1 coach instead of 2? Either a mistake, or its a 2 car turbo with one coach locked out of use!

Or it could be a road coach (ie bus) as these run round as single vehicles….

 

[FGW_DID]

Thank you for your reply. I guess this is a knock on effect attributal to the delays with the 769 programme, which I thought was the original reason for creating the fleet inter working?

The Thames Valley really seem to be suffering with 165 shortages at the moment. I am not sure what this is on journeycheck today;

16:20 Didcot Parkway to Oxford due 16:32
17:07 Oxford to Didcot Parkway due 17:24
17:34 Didcot Parkway to Banbury due 18:23
18:36 Banbury to Didcot Parkway due 19:23
19:37 Didcot Parkway to Oxford due 19:52
20:37 Didcot Parkway to Banbury due 21:24
Will be formed of 1 coach instead of 2.
Last Updated:08/12/2022 04:03

At least it is one more coach than the a.m peak part of the diagram which is 0 coaches.

Formed of 1 coach instead of 2? Either a mistake, or its a 2 car turbo with one coach locked out of use!

It was 165127 with doors LOOU, on that diagram, but the driver failed it anyway so it returned to the TCD.

 

[ValleyLines142]

166220 has appeared on Thames Valley diagrams

Sunday
2B90 2200 Cheltenham Spa to Swindon
5B90 2316 Swindon to St Philips Mrsh H S T D (cancelled)

Monday
5L08 0540 Swindon to Reading
2L08 0624 Reading to Oxford

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Dec 2022 ==

I notice that from the new timetable that the 0652 from Worcester Foregate St goes to Weymouth instead of Didcot, and the 0510 Oxford to Worcester Shrub Hill returns as the 0701 Worcester Shrub Hill to Didcot. This will end the daily swap of 2-car 165s between West and the Thames Valley. Unless the swap is accomplished elsewhere that I have not noticed, which is quite possible, the two turbo fleets will return to being independent of one another?

What's the situation with the 0604 Gloucester to Worcester Foregate Street then? At present I believe that forms the 06:52 to Didcot?

 

[Siemens Staines]

It just forms the 0652 to Weymouth instead

 

[Benjwri]

It was 165127 with doors LOOU, on that diagram, but the driver failed it anyway so it returned to the TCD.

So the doors were faulty? Is there any sense in running that service even, seems like asking for abuse of staff. Especially on a rush hour service between Didcot and Oxford, they're normally full and standing anyways, telling a commuter they can't get on a train when they can see an empty carriage is not going to down well.

 

[FGW_DID]

So the doors were faulty? Is there any sense in running that service even, seems like asking for abuse of staff. Especially on a rush hour service between Didcot and Oxford, they're normally full and standing anyways, telling a commuter they can't get on a train when they can see an empty carriage is not going to down well.

no idea what the fault was if any. Perhaps what I should have wrote was:

”165127 was allocated to that diagram but as it was found to have some doors LOOU was failed by the driver and went ECS to the depot.”

127 was still showing on the system as allocated to that diagram for quite a while, even after it was sat on the depot. That may explain why journey check was showing those later services as 1 coach vice 2 coaches. In reality it would have been a different unit sent from the depot (or indeed maybe 127 once the doors had been given a clean bill of health).

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

So the doors were faulty? Is there any sense in running that service even, seems like asking for abuse of staff. Especially on a rush hour service between Didcot and Oxford, they're normally full and standing anyways, telling a commuter they can't get on a train when they can see an empty carriage is not going to down well.

Better 1 coach than no train or stop one of the Oxford - London fasts there additionally.

 

[Benjwri]

Better 1 coach than no train or stop one of the Oxford - London fasts there additionally.

Stopping a London fast would definitely be better. I just mean for the sake of the station staff who would’ve had a nightmare dealing with angry commuters. Ive seen enough arguments about full and standing Oxford shuttles.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Better 1 coach than no train or stop one of the Oxford - London fasts there additionally.

Do you have evidence to support this claim?

 

[Benjwri]

Do you have evidence to support this claim?

I mean undeniably whatever capacity is possible is better.

However perhaps doing some kind of soft cancellation, such as listing the service as cancelled but still running it, would be better, to avoid huge crowds forming, and stop people rushing to the station to make the service, but help take what it can from those who are already there.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Especially on a rush hour service between Didcot and Oxford, they're normally full and standing anyways, telling a commuter they can't get on a train when they can see an empty carriage is not going to down well.

Well I agree with this, in any case. A single 20m carriage is not an example of where the “better a train than no train” will work. If anything it could just become dangerously overcrowded.

 

[150249]

Just passed 166203 on platform 2 on the 1845 to Okehampton. First time I've seen a turbo on the Okehampton branch. Does this happen regularly?

 

[Parallel]

Just passed 166203 on platform 2 on the 1845 to Okehampton. First time I've seen a turbo on the Okehampton branch. Does this happen regularly?

Not regularly but they do turn up on that route from time to time, from my observation.

 

[RPI]

Just passed 166203 on platform 2 on the 1845 to Okehampton. First time I've seen a turbo on the Okehampton branch. Does this happen regularly?

Funny enough, I've seen a 165 on there a few times but never a 166

 

[150249]

Funny enough, I've seen a 165 on there a few times but never a 166

I also just passed a 158 on platforms 1, 4, 5 and 6 with a 159 on P3. Clearly Exeter St David's is drunk today.

 

[FGW_DID]

Just passed 166203 on platform 2 on the 1845 to Okehampton. First time I've seen a turbo on the Okehampton branch. Does this happen regularly?

Covering a failure probably(unless it was an STP amendment), there are no current 16x diagrams with workings to Okehampton.

 

[Jrocks]

Just passed 166203 on platform 2 on the 1845 to Okehampton. First time I've seen a turbo on the Okehampton branch. Does this happen regularly?

Covering a failure probably(unless it was an STP amendment), there are no current 16x diagrams with workings to Okehampton.

Usually happens when 2T29 the 1831 Paignton service Is short formed, the Okehampton service (2K13) splits off of this service. Today however, there was no 2T29 for the unit to detach from as the Paignton circuits were hourly due to the industrial action. The 166 came off of 2L92 which was the Axminster service, curtailed at EXD to provide a set for 2K13 (plus the fact turbos arent cleared up the mule).

 

[REVUpminster]

The first record I have of Okehampton is 166203 on the 10 January 2022 and the same week 165132 on the 13 January 2022. There was 158766 3 September 2022. I don't know about Sundays.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Dec 2022 ==

Maybe to do with Christmas. There are no 165/166s operating today out of Exeter. All except one are short formed 150s in Devon and Cornwall. Maybe the strikes have affected shopping traffic to Exeter.