GWR Class 800

[swt_passenger]

You have to ask yourself why the west has a 2/3rds ratio of 5 car units and LNER have a 1/3 ratio. Again. Poor planning from the Daft. Should have been the same both ways surely. Obviously the Daft know what they`re doing.. Side splitter coming on.

It’s worse than that really, because LNER have (to within a few) almost the same number of 9 cars as their existing fleet of HSTs and 225 sets, with almost all of their 5 car trains being additionals. As you say though, there must have been a very different policy at some stage in the process.

 

[hwl]

It’s worse than that really, because LNER have (to within a few) almost the same number of 9 cars as their existing fleet of HSTs and 225 sets, with almost all of their 5 car trains being additionals. As you say though, there must have been a very different policy at some stage in the process.

LNER and predecessors haven't had enough stock to work all the desired services for decades hence GC and Hull Trains moving in to fill the gap.
The average journey distance on the ECML is also much longer than the GWML hence more 9 car

 

[Clarence Yard]

Why so many 5 cars. It's an easy answer and one I have given before.

The reason that GWR has proportionally more 5 cl.800 5 cars than cl.800 9 cars is that the timetable that the DfT (actually SDG) compiled for its investment case involved a comparatively large amount of splitting and joining. The investment timetable for the ECML sets did not. The units were ordered from that work.

When it came to the GWR cl.802 sets, 5 cars west of Plymouth was associated with the Cornish half hourly scheme. It was either that or the existing hourly service with longer trains and some heavy expenditure at Penzance for accommodating them.

 

[CharlesR]

People who haven’t even ridden the trains are quick to criticise it, and comparing it to a charity event celebrating the service of a 42 year old train isn’t exactly what I’d expect to see on the 16:30 every evening, where what we call commuters get on the trains.

The commuters like them for the capacity and cleanliness but like any normal human get annoyed when they don’t work. According to some members the HSTs were so perfect and amazing that nothing will ever beat it. Wow!

(I do not dislike the HSTs, I like them as much as the IETs)

 

[irish_rail]

You have to ask yourself why the west has a 2/3rds ratio of 5 car units and LNER have a 1/3 ratio. Again. Poor planning from the Daft. Should have been the same both ways surely. Obviously the Daft know what they`re doing.. Side splitter coming on.

Spot on. Trouble is the north and Scotland shout much louder and would never have accepted smaller trains. The amount of 5 car sets GWR are lumbered with is bordering on criminal!!!

 

[irish_rail]

LNER and predecessors haven't had enough stock to work all the desired services for decades hence GC and Hull Trains moving in to fill the gap.
The average journey distance on the ECML is also much longer than the GWML hence more 9 car

By that argument the London to plynouth and Penzance route should be exclusively 9 cars as these journeys are longer than almost all lner journeys.

 

[Melancholia]

When it came to the GWR cl.802 sets, 5 cars west of Plymouth was associated with the Cornish half hourly scheme. It was either that or the existing hourly service with longer trains and some heavy expenditure at Penzance for accommodating them.

Haven't we been through this before, more frequent but shorter trains, back in 2002? That's worked out well...

 

[irish_rail]

Haven't we been through this before, more frequent but shorter trains, back in 2002? That's worked out well...

I think it's already accepted (probably I guess even high up within gwr) that the 5 coach trains were probably a mistake that looked good on paper but not in reality.....I suspect the beneficries will be east Midlands and cross country franchises which will No doubt get more decent length trains. Doesn't much help us in the South West but hopefully others may not have to suffer as a result of the GWR experience.....

 

[fgwrich]

Just to compound matters on the Great Western tonight, we’ve just been turfed off 800011 at Slough with suspected engine failure.

That does seem a little odd though as we were running in Electric Mode for most of the journey. It’s now blocking Platform 2 and is likely to cause further disruption until it works again.

 

[Master29]

People who haven’t even ridden the trains are quick to criticise it, and comparing it to a charity event celebrating the service of a 42 year old train isn’t exactly what I’d expect to see on the 16:30 every evening, where what we call commuters get on the trains.

The commuters like them for the capacity and cleanliness but like any normal human get annoyed when they don’t work. According to some members the HSTs were so perfect and amazing that nothing will ever beat it. Wow!

(I do not dislike the HSTs, I like them as much as the IETs)

There, you`ve put your finger on it. The commuters like them. They would given the fact they`re commuter style seats on them. I criticise them having travelled on them and most who criticise them on this forum have done likewise. If you had to spend over 4 hours on one you might think a bit different. It`s not so much they`re a bad train. They`re not in many ways but they`re a poor product internally value wise. Some decent seating, a buffet and less 5 car units would alleviate much.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There, you`ve put your finger on it. The commuters like them. They would given the fact they`re commuter style seats on them.

The seats shouldn't in principle be that much of an issue - they don't differ massively from Grammer E3000s, and I've spent three hours in those going down to Weymouth and three from Crewe to Bletchley via the wobble. The problem is the stupid metal bar on the original, thinner, fabric covered cushions, and that the back is a bit over-contoured for short people so they force tall peoples' shoulders forward.

Oh, and the manky drab grey interior with that nasty green stripe. The interior of the LNER Azuma, despite being otherwise identical, is so much more homely, much more like a Pendolino but with brighter lighting to suit those who find Pendolinos a bit dingy.

 

[northernbelle]

Just to compound matters on the Great Western tonight, we’ve just been turfed off 800011 at Slough with suspected engine failure.

That does seem a little odd though as we were running in Electric Mode for most of the journey. It’s now blocking Platform 2 and is likely to cause further disruption until it works again.

Running on 1 engine vice 3. Looks to have caused little disruption though - left Slough empty for North Pole within half an hour of arriving - other services worked around it during that time. Pax forward on 2R73 to Reading or 1W42 to Oxford, half an hour after intended.

Maybe the engines are so quiet you didn't realise it was in diesel mode?

 

[TractiveEffort]

The seats shouldn't in principle be that much of an issue - they don't differ massively from Grammer E3000s, and I've spent three hours in those going down to Weymouth and three from Crewe to Bletchley via the wobble. The problem is the stupid metal bar on the original, thinner, fabric covered cushions, and that the back is a bit over-contoured for short people so they force tall peoples' shoulders forward.

Oh, and the manky drab grey interior with that nasty green stripe. The interior of the LNER Azuma, despite being otherwise identical, is so much more homely, much more like a Pendolino but with brighter lighting to suit those who find Pendolinos a bit dingy.

As loathe as I am to join in the seat debate, for clarity, the seats with the plain material covering have had (will have) the seat covers replaced with the moquette material and nothing else, so the only difference is the material, the base, the foam and every other part remains original.

 

[Bletchleyite]

As loathe as I am to join in the seat debate, for clarity, the seats with the plain material covering have had (will have) the seat covers replaced with the moquette material and nothing else, so the only difference is the material, the base, the foam and every other part remains original.

So the thickness of the moquette is enough to mask the bar? There is a massive difference between the comfort of the fabric and moquette base.

 

[387star]

Do the majority have new seat covers

 

[Fast Track]

Recently travelled Paddington to Newbury, Paddington to Exeter and Liverpool Street to Norwich in a few weeks. Feedback - Please GWR bring back the buffet cars and get rid of the hard seats on the ICEs.

How were operators like GWR allowed to abolish buffet cars a vital public service element of inter city travel? Clearly not in their franchise contract.

Are their any plans or campaigns for a review?

Liverpool Street to Norwich they survive and seemingly thrive judging by their popularity on board.

 

[fgwrich]

Running on 1 engine vice 3. Looks to have caused little disruption though - left Slough empty for North Pole within half an hour of arriving - other services worked around it during that time. Pax forward on 2R73 to Reading or 1W42 to Oxford, half an hour after intended.

Maybe the engines are so quiet you didn't realise it was in diesel mode?

So quiet it arrived with the Pantograph up?!

That doesn't surprise me if that is the case, the number of broken sets appears to be on the up - Michael Eavis (802) was also running around on 1 1/2 gen sets as well tonight.

 

[w1bbl3]

How were operators like GWR allowed to abolish buffet cars a vital public service element of inter city travel? Clearly not in their franchise contract.

Are their any plans or campaigns for a review?

Blame DaFT for the lack of buffets the ministry didn't want them on their extremely expensive trains, if it hadn't been for ECML re-franchising, VTEC / LNER would have got full DaFT spec 800's as well. It's not a case GWR abolishing them rather the ministry not allowing GWR to have them.

 

[Grumbler]

Blame DaFT for the lack of buffets the ministry didn't want them on their extremely expensive trains, if it hadn't been for ECML re-franchising, VTEC / LNER would have got full DaFT spec 800's as well. It's not a case GWR abolishing them rather the ministry not allowing GWR to have them.

Perhaps the railways should be privatised?

 

[CptCharlee]

They need to sort the 5 car situation out big time it's getting beyond a joke now. Fed up being on trains short formed and hence my seat reservation is null and void. I say re purpose them or move them to another operator and get more 9 car in. I'm fed up with the south west always given the short stick. With the Hitachi contract that's near enough impossible I know but something has to change.

Any word on what's happening in DA3 will there be any changes?

How they got the interior so wrong is crazy, DfT made some stupid decisions. Better seats, buffet and no 5 cars. And you'd have yourself a universally loved train, seen as a good successor to the 125HST. Well maybe not universally you cant please everyone I guess.

 

[aar0]

As is the fact you cannot order any hot food from the trolley as you can do on most Ryanair flights.

On GWR IETs you can order hot food from the trolleys. It's not well advertised but they'll deliver your chosen hot food to your seat.

 

[northernbelle]

So quiet it arrived with the Pantograph up?!

That doesn't surprise me if that is the case, the number of broken sets appears to be on the up - Michael Eavis (802) was also running around on 1 1/2 gen sets as well tonight.

How can a set run around on 1 and half GUs?

How many broken sets are there compared to previously - any numbers?

 

[43096]

The seats shouldn't in principle be that much of an issue - they don't differ massively from Grammer E3000s, and I've spent three hours in those going down to Weymouth and three from Crewe to Bletchley via the wobble. The problem is the stupid metal bar on the original, thinner, fabric covered cushions, and that the back is a bit over-contoured for short people so they force tall peoples' shoulders forward.

Oh, and the manky drab grey interior with that nasty green stripe. The interior of the LNER Azuma, despite being otherwise identical, is so much more homely, much more like a Pendolino but with brighter lighting to suit those who find Pendolinos a bit dingy.

You keep on about the metal bar. It is far worse than that with the lack of padding and poor ride. They are totally unfit for purpose.

 

[Bletchleyite]

You keep on about the metal bar.

Because as someone who likes hard seats, e.g. the ironing board and Grammer E3000, it is the only thing that really makes them unacceptable to me.

 

[fgwrich]

How can a set run around on 1 and half GUs?

How many broken sets are there compared to previously - any numbers?

Ok, so it’s 1 & 1/2 in a sound based sense. I passed that unit around 4 times yesterday and only one car had it’s GU providing full power upon departure. The other sounded as if it was intermittently providing some slight level of power, before reverting back to idle. The third GU was dead.

 

[northernbelle]

Ok, so it’s 1 & 1/2 in a sound based sense. I passed that unit around 4 times yesterday and only one car had it’s GU providing full power upon departure. The other sounded as if it was intermittently providing some slight level of power, before reverting back to idle. The third GU was dead.

So no numbers about defective sets then? I do rather like evidence to back up claims

 

[broadgage]

On GWR IETs you can order hot food from the trolleys. It's not well advertised but they'll deliver your chosen hot food to your seat.

Are you certain about this ?
Any links to prices, and when available ?
No hot food on any trips that I have made. I thought that hot food had sunk without trace.

 

[fgwrich]

So no numbers about defective sets then? I do rather like evidence to back up claims

And your's are? I'm going by what I witness every day. I don't have time in my job to stand there counting every defective unit I see, nor the desired access to the magic box to tell me which units are running around with defects.

Or are we just going back to the nothing ever fails / lets bury our heads in the sand mode again?

 

[northernbelle]

And your's are? I'm going by what I witness every day. I don't have time in my job to stand there counting every defective unit I see, nor the desired access to the magic box to tell me which units are running around with defects.

Or are we just going back to the nothing ever fails / lets bury our heads in the sand mode again?

I'm not the one going online making assertions that reliability is falling without anything but occasional platform end observations to back it up.

I've never said 'nothing ever fails' nor do I bury my head in the sand, but I do prefer to make statements based on evidence.

What I do know, and can back up with evidence, is that the IETs continue to work more reliably than the HSTs they replaced.

 

[Railperf]

So no numbers about defective sets then? I do rather like evidence to back up claims

Clarence Yard has backed up our observations by providing numbers of sets with GU's out or diesel only working in previous comments.

To me a set running around on less than the full set of GU's or diesel only restriction is a defective unit - even if it manages to remain on some kind of diagram. Fortunately the very well padded IC125 based timetable means that these defects aren't hitting overall timekeeping too hard.
But i see that being an issue from December once the proposed new faster timetable comes into action.
And then the proverbial will start hitting the fan as on-time running decreases - unless these failures can be significantly reduced.