GWR Class 800

[West Ruislip]

By rail? Interesting.

No, all vehicles are leaving by road.

Thursday's media event will revolve around the 800 on the back of a lorry in front of the ship.

 

[158747]

Just looked at Marine Traffic, Tamerlane is currently between Ryde and Southsea, due to arrive at Berth 35 Southampton Eastern Docks at 14.30.

 

[Bigfoot]

They'll be going by road as no-one will have gauge cleared them from Southampton.

Could they not have been gauge cleared whilst not in the country? I'm sure I read somewhere that GBRf were to haul the first sets up from Southampton as well as provide drivers for the testing.

 

[TheKnightWho]

Could they not have been gauge cleared whilst not in the country? I'm sure I read somewhere that GBRf were to haul the first sets up from Southampton as well as provide drivers for the testing.

This. We know their exact size and everything about them; it's nonsensical to have to transport them by road when there's literally nothing stopping gauge clearing as it is.

 

[jimm]

This. We know their exact size and everything about them; it's nonsensical to have to transport them by road when there's literally nothing stopping gauge clearing as it is.

So you want someone to go out and spend a load of money on checking and, if necessary, altering platforms and other structures all along the chosen route from Southampton for the delivery of the dozen trains that will be built in Japan. Trains which most likely will never run that way again in their lives.

There are far better things to spend money on, like gauge-clearing the routes they will actually work in future.

 

[DownSouth]

So you want someone to go out and spend a load of money on checking and, if necessary, altering platforms and other structures all along the chosen route from Southampton for the delivery of the dozen trains that will be built in Japan. Trains which most likely will never run that way again in their lives.

There are far better things to spend money on, like gauge-clearing the routes they will actually work in future.

Right on.

It also says that the road transport from Southampton to <wherever it's going> was a cheaper move than paying the shipping company to make an extra call at a port closer to the destination, assuming that there is a Ro-Ro capable port closer to where the railcars need to go. Especially since they would certainly be using exactly the same trailers onto which the trains were loaded and driven onto the ship in Japan.

 

[TheKnightWho]

So you want someone to go out and spend a load of money on checking and, if necessary, altering platforms and other structures all along the chosen route from Southampton for the delivery of the dozen trains that will be built in Japan. Trains which most likely will never run that way again in their lives.

There are far better things to spend money on, like gauge-clearing the routes they will actually work in future.

No-one is proposing to fully gauge clear the route if you run into problems. On the other hand, we can check the gauge of the route against the profile of the train, and if no changes are needed/very easy modifications are possible then the decision can be made as to whether it's worth it.

 

[Emblematic]

No-one is proposing to fully gauge clear the route if you run into problems. On the other hand, we can check the gauge of the route against the profile of the train, and if no/very easy modifications are possible then the decision can be made as to whether it's worth it.

It was similarly found that gauge clearing the various LU sub-surface stocks for scrap moves wasn't cost effective and these were all road hauled as well (and this continues with the D stock.) Doubtless the multiplicity of types and destinations was a factor here. However the S stock clearance from Derby has obviously been justified, probably on the basis of a very large number of moves of identical types. Particularly as there have been plenty of return trips now!

 

[jimm]

No-one is proposing to fully gauge clear the route if you run into problems. On the other hand, we can check the gauge of the route against the profile of the train, and if no changes are needed/very easy modifications are possible then the decision can be made as to whether it's worth it.

I'm afraid that just because a paper exercise says that you can run something along a particular route, doesn't mean that it will actually fit when you try to do so.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Is it running late arriving at Southampton? Not seen any mention in the news of its arrival

 

[ainsworth74]

No-one is proposing to fully gauge clear the route if you run into problems. On the other hand, we can check the gauge of the route against the profile of the train, and if no changes are needed/very easy modifications are possible then the decision can be made as to whether it's worth it.

Or rather than spending time and money doing that you could ring up a local hauling firm and ask them to supply trucks and drivers to move a small number of vehicles to the Midlands.

Much easier.

 

[Stats]

Is it running late arriving at Southampton? Not seen any mention in the news of its arrival

No, it arrived at 14:51.

 

[fowler9]

Who clears them to pass down the roads for the one time in their existence they are likely to do so?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Who clears them to pass down the roads for the one time in their existence they are likely to do so?

I imagine that's the job of the haulage company, though the road network is rather more flexible in terms of routing!

 

[fowler9]

I imagine that's the job of the haulage company, though the road network is rather more flexible in terms of routing!

To an extent but I would have thought the railways would be able to have a cheaper rough guess as to if a train will fit along the railway line than a road haulier will as to if it will fit on the back of a trailer under every bridge and around every corner on the road.

 

[najaB]

To an extent but I would have thought the railways would be able to have a cheaper rough guess as to if a train will fit along the railway line than a road haulier will as to if it will fit on the back of a trailer under every bridge and around every corner on the road.

I'm sure that it's easier for the haulage companies to figure this out as it won't be the first time they are moving large loads on many of the roads. To them it's just a 26m x 3m x 4m box.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I'm sure that it's easier for the haulage companies to figure this out as it won't be the first time they are moving large loads on many of the roads. To them it's just a 26m x 3m x 4m box.

Wasn't an early Shinkansen driving car trucked from Southampton docks to the NRM in York a few years back? How did that compare with the 800 vehicles, dimensions-wise?

 

[higthomas]

Rolling stock is trucked around by road all the time. There are companies who specialise in such things, and will know how to do it. In general though, a single carrige isn't really that large a job for these people, either by weight or dimensionally, not when compared to some of the stuff they have to move.

This was during the storms last winter.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

"Arriva fail to understand the meaning of rail replacement bus service"

 

[jimm]

To an extent but I would have thought the railways would be able to have a cheaper rough guess as to if a train will fit along the railway line than a road haulier will as to if it will fit on the back of a trailer under every bridge and around every corner on the road.

A cheaper rough guess?:roll:

Not very cheap if you find that in the real world there is a platform built half-an-inch further out than it is supposed to be on paper, which scrapes all your expensive new train's bogies, or one on a curve that clouts the ends of the 26m-long coaches.

Whereas pretty much the entire road journey from the gate at Southampton docks is on dual carriageways and motorways, where the heights of bridges are a known quantity, as they are to standard designs and designed to allow for occasional very large loads that are rather larger then your average HGV - or railway loco or coach on a low-loader - and there aren't any platforms around to hit the bogies or coach bodywork.

 

[cf111]

"Arriva fail to understand the meaning of rail replacement bus service"

Haha, I like that.

I've seen Caledonain Sleeper coaches being driven away from Inverness TMD before.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Unloading pictures from the BBC:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-31846301

 

[higthomas]

Also, an article on the new trains.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-31831603

The first "Super Express" train, that will replace ageing trains in the UK, has arrived from Japan.
Shipped to Southampton, the train is part of the £7.5bn modernisation of the Great Western railway line.
It will be used as a test train by staff on the rail network from April.
The 122 trains, which are longer and faster than those currently in service, are expected to start carrying passengers in 2017.
Produced by Hitachi for the Intercity Express Programme, the trains will be used on Great Western and East Coast lines...

Quite interesting on the whole, and generally true, although with one or two errors.

 

[fgwrich]

Rolling stock is trucked around by road all the time. There are companies who specialise in such things, and will know how to do it. In general though, a single carrige isn't really that large a job for these people, either by weight or dimensionally, not when compared to some of the stuff they have to move.

Exactly. Companies like Reid Freight, Alley's and Moveright Intl do these type of jobs all the time. Alley's spent most of the winter of 2013 moving FGW's HSTs from Old Oak Common and St Phillips Marsh to Laira, and Reid have been the prime haulier for the LUL Stock cars to Eastleigh Works and Booths.

 

[Kristofferson]

Quite interesting on the whole, and generally true, although with one or two errors.

They did a good job of making the IC125 look old... pictures in BR livery and black & white

 

[DownSouth]

To an extent but I would have thought the railways would be able to have a cheaper rough guess as to if a train will fit along the railway line than a road haulier will as to if it will fit on the back of a trailer under every bridge and around every corner on the road.

Quite the opposite.

The only part of the process where the professional skill of the specialist haulier would be put into play would be the final few streets leading to the destination, if the Hitachi depot is not appropriately sited with an entrance gate coming off an existing mapped oversize route. For the rest of the trip, plotting a route using the mapped oversize routes for the category of load is so simple it can be entrusted to a computer!

Road systems have an advantage over railways in that oversize loads are divided into a select number of categories, instead of each vehicle having clearance work done to within very tight margins.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

The 1st coach of the train has just left Southampton docks. They showed it on South Today (will probably be on iPlayer at some point later today)

 

[Bigfoot]

Especially since they would certainly be using exactly the same trailers onto which the trains were loaded and driven onto the ship in Japan.

Well this is certainly wrong. I knew it would be dollies or similar. Think of the cost of returning full trailers back to Japan. Or all the dollies in a small space probably the same size as one coach.

 

[fowler9]

Sorry guys. A bit short sighted of me wondering how it could be cheaper by road. Mouth was open, should have been shut.

 

[sprinterguy]

They did a good job of making the IC125 look old... pictures in BR livery and black & white

Other than picking out a buffer fitted power car for the "Top Trumps" card, which I think marrs the timeless lines of the trains, I thought that they showed the HST sets in a fairly positive light: The iconic Intercity swallow livery, and then an immediately post-launch shot of a set "stretching its' legs" out of Kings Cross. With regard to the latter image, I don't think that the new trains will create anywhere near as much of a stir or a lasting legacy when the first few depart Kings Cross!