GWR Class 800

[Dai Corner]

Well I caught my first 800s on Sunday on the Cotswold Line and my main thought was "why is a smart new intercity train being used on a backwater local/commuter route" I like the hard seats.

I’ve heard it said that it’s not the route itself but the influential people who use it.

 

[londiscape]

I tend to avoid the 800s where possible and look for HSTs instead, the seats are beyond abominable and give me a numb backside somewhere between Reading and Swindon on the way out of London. No buffet car either - ridiculous. I know there's a trolley (possibly, no guarantee) but if I want food or drink on a train I want to go and get it when I want it, not when the trolley decides to turn up to me.

I am however very pleased to know that Pullman dining will still be available on GWR, until I read the last few pages of this thread I had assumed it was going the same way as all other "comforts" on the British railway - ie being abolished. I will be sure to avail myself of it on my next trip.

PS. Re seats, was on an LO 317/7 on the Chingford line today and the attached shows the type of seat that an Intercity should aspire to (and these units were only Stansted Express formerly, if I recall correctly, max 1hr journey or less?)

Take note GWR or DfT (don't really care which is responsible - my backside is still numb either way) - THIS is what a train seat should look like...

 

[jimm]

Regarding seats, there are definitely two different types of cushioning on the Standard seats in the 800 fleet currently. The last few sets I have had, the seats were quite ‘overstuffed’ and firm yet reasonably comfortable. The one I had tonight was rock hard, thin cushioning. Must have been a low-numbered unit that hasn’t been retrofitted with the improved fittings.

There aren't two types of cushions - apparently any difference you may detect is down to a change in the type of cloth used for the seat covers on later-built sets. Padding remains the same. At any rate, this is what I was told by someone in GWR's management.

 

[Severn40]

I tend to avoid the 800s where possible and look for HSTs instead, the seats are beyond abominable and give me a numb backside somewhere between Reading and Swindon on the way out of London. No buffet car either - ridiculous. I know there's a trolley (possibly, no guarantee) but if I want food or drink on a train I want to go and get it when I want it, not when the trolley decides to turn up to me.

I am however very pleased to know that Pullman dining will still be available on GWR, until I read the last few pages of this thread I had assumed it was going the same way as all other "comforts" on the British railway - ie being abolished. I will be sure to avail myself of it on my next trip.

PS. Re seats, was on an LO 317/7 on the Chingford line today and the attached shows the type of seat that an Intercity should aspire to (and these units were only Stansted Express formerly, if I recall correctly, max 1hr journey or less?)

Take note GWR or DfT (don't really care which is responsible - my backside is still numb either way) - THIS is what a train seat should look like...

Have to say got mixed feelings and experiences of the 800. Apart from a number of occasions a 5 car train has turned up at Newport Gwent (and usually packed), the trolley service is erratic. On occasions, only one trolley has been available and usually in the other portion of the train. Or waiting over an hour or so for a trolley to pass, to luggage blocking the trolley service altogether.

It feels the key metric for DfT has been the number of additional seats, especially for Thames Valley commuters, but it has come at the price of the comfort/facilities for the longer distance intercity traveller. A shame really as the trains under wires are very good.

 

[ainsworth74]

It feels the key metric for DfT has been the number of additional seats, especially for Thames Valley commuters, but it has come at the price of the comfort/facilities for the longer distance intercity traveller.

I don't think that there is any question that that is the key metric for the DfT (or more accurately the politicians within it). They want to be able to brag about how many extra seats per day or in the morning peak or per hour or whatever time frame is chosen. Why else would you put seats against the wall on the IET where there is no window at all due to the door pocket? Surely it's an ideal place to put a small luggage rack? But then that's two less seats which means across a whole train means that the statistics they can spout out about are the little lower.

Take these recent DfT franchise announcements for example:

22,000 extra seats into London Waterloo each morning peak and 30,000 extra seats out of Waterloo each evening peak

Source

By 2021, there will be more than 32,000 more seats on services arriving at London Liverpool Street in the morning peak...

Source

There will be 20,000 extra seats for rush hour passengers in Birmingham, and 10,000 for people in London.

Source

...bringing in 9,000 extra seats into Manchester, Leeds, Sheffield, Liverpool and Newcastle...

Source

Seats, seats, seats. The politicians will sacrifice anything at the alter of more seats. That they're uncomfortable (though I don't mind IET seats) or that the trains are more and more cramped (though not a criticism that can be given to an IET with their excellent legroom) is very much not an issue as long as they can talk about "x,000 more seats in the morning peak" or "biggest investment since Victorian times" and so on and so on...

 

[najaB]

Seats, seats, seats. The politicians will sacrifice anything at the alter of more seats.

Because that's what people complain about: "I pay £xxx for my ticket and can't even get a seat".

 

[TwistedMentat]

Because that's what people complain about: "I pay £xxx for my ticket and can't even get a seat".

^^^

Your regular passenger cares most about getting a seat. A window seat is a nice to have. Even a comfy seat is nice to have. The important thing is getting a seat.

And honestly going forward I would expect most train seats to follow on from short haul airline designs. The 800 seats remind me of the slimline seats you find on most short haul flights now. Nothing amazing but perfectly serviceable for a couple of hours. And weight is even important for trains so if you can shave a kilo or two off a seat it adds up pretty quickly.

 

[jimm]

I don't think that there is any question that that is the key metric for the DfT (or more accurately the politicians within it). They want to be able to brag about how many extra seats per day or in the morning peak or per hour or whatever time frame is chosen. Why else would you put seats against the wall on the IET where there is no window at all due to the door pocket? Surely it's an ideal place to put a small luggage rack? But then that's two less seats which means across a whole train means that the statistics they can spout out about are the little lower.

And yet people do use those seats - I've seen people having a snooze or spending the entire journey starting at a screen, without reflections off the windows, and with headphones clamped on, oblivious to the outside world. The odd one has almost missed their stop but I suspect being next to a window wouldn't have made that much difference to them.

 

[Thunderer]

After today's announcement by the DFT, what now becomes of the ECML 800/801 branding I wonder? I very much doubt they will retain the Virgin name "Azuma" and associated branding?

 

[samuelmorris]

Presumably a minimalist 'East Coast'-esque livery but with red rather than pink, as no doubt, unless a change of government occurs, they'll still want to try and refranchise the route again in future.

 

[D365]

I very much doubt they will retain the Virgin name "Azuma" and associated branding?

Thank goodness. Typical marketing guff.

 

[themiller]

I had a look at a couple of 800s in Paddington yesterday and thought that the doors don't seem to contrast sufficiently with the rest of the bodysides to comply with the RVAR requirements. They look like a washed-out version of the GWR green which, in reduced lighting levels, would not stand out to someone with poor eyesight.

 

[sprinterguy]

I had a look at a couple of 800s in Paddington yesterday and thought that the doors don't seem to contrast sufficiently with the rest of the bodysides to comply with the RVAR requirements. They look like a washed-out version of the GWR green which, in reduced lighting levels, would not stand out to someone with poor eyesight.

The doors are a very light silver-grey: Other than painting them bright pink, I can't see how they could stand out against the dark green of the bodywork any more effectively, though I haven't seen an 800 "in the wild" myself yet.

 

[Phil G]

Have to say the GWR crews do seem to have got to grips with the 800s now. I catch the 8:17 from Chippenham to Bristol every day and pre 800 the HSTs would always arrive at least 2 mins early, 800's at least 2 mins late, however in the last couple of weeks the 800s are arriving 2 mins early and that is after Didcot to Chippenham on diesel all at 125 line speed so they are obviously keeping to the HST timings with no real problems.
Looking forward to the 9 car units arriving even if only so i don't have to listen to passengers complaining about why are there 2 short trains instead of one long one!

 

[themiller]

The doors are a very light silver-grey: Other than painting them bright pink, I can't see how they could stand out against the dark green of the bodywork any more effectively, though I haven't seen an 800 "in the wild" myself yet.

Reviewing my photos, It was an 802 (101) that I was looking at. The doors don't stand out on it but the colour may change before entry into service but why not paint them in the correct colour in the first place?

 

[Domh245]

The doors do stand out, the picture you've taken is of the first class driving vehicle, the leading door of which isn't a publicly accessible one. I don't see how this isn't clearly contrasting. I will say thought that the 800/0s which have been vinyled from DfT white appear to retain dark grey doors which aren't great contrast wise.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Reviewing my photos, It was an 802 (101) that I was looking at. The doors don't stand out on it but the colour may change before entry into service but why not paint them in the correct colour in the first place?

The door pictured is not for passenger use and is therefore correctly in the body colour rather than the grey.

 

[eaet]

Travelling on 800032 today, I'm a big fan but notice the green vinyl (?) is already starting to chip away around some of the external displays, seems a bit quick!
Wifi map also having a bit of trouble

 

[Pete_uk]

I have seen a video with a 800 which has a lot of vinal coming off at a point where two body panels meet at the cab side.

Just paint the darn things!

 

[palmersears]

A fair collect of IETs in the morning sun at Doncaster depot just now as I went past on the way to Grantham. Does anybody which units are currently based there?

 

[SaveECRewards]

With all what's been happening with VTEC lately, I forgot to chip in here. Was on a GWR 800 on Monday for the first time in standard and for me the seat was fine but I can see why many find it too firm. Then I read above there's a different material on some of the more recent sets so now I don't know whether that's why I was fine for me.

They did try and offer me a VTEC style service to help me feel at home. The trolley wasn't running and the reservations weren't placed (is the electronic system fully rolled out? There was neither a paper reservation or an electronic one).

Although it's not a perfect train the ride is smooth, part of me loves the fact they have big kitchens (easier to offer an improved catering offer on more services at some point in the future) but another part of me thinks all that kitchen space is a waste on many sets at the moment (perhaps they could reintroduce travelling chef on non-Pullman trains and offer ordering on-demand via app, with the trolley person able to take orders for those who can't use the app).

 

[superalbs]

...and the reservations weren't placed (is the electronic system fully rolled out? There was neither a paper reservation or an electronic one...

From my experience, it seems the system seldom works, and when it does, you might end up getting this:

[seat reservation screens showing the differently numbered seats on the screen and label]

The entire carriage was wrong...

 

[whhistle]

I had a look at a couple of 800s yesterday and thought that the doors don't seem to contrast sufficiently with the rest of the bodysides to comply with the RVAR requirements. They would not stand out to someone with poor eyesight.

Does that come from someone who this doesn't affect?
If so, you can't say whether they would or would not stand out to someone with poor eyesight.

 

[themiller]

The door pictured is not for passenger use and is therefore correctly in the body colour rather than the grey.

That's very much my point. The second door which is at the front of the coach has a step which has the required yellow edge and passengers' operating button but you can hardly distinguish it because of the colour.

Does that come from someone who this doesn't affect?
If so, you can't say whether they would or would not stand out to someone with poor eyesight.

Looking across Paddington to platform 1, the doors didn't appear silver-grey but rather a dark green-grey. As this was a unit which isn't yet in service, it could be a job to do but a search on google images showed some 800s with the lighter doors but also some with dark ones.

 

[jimm]

Are you are you are not getting confused by the kitchen ends of the 800s?

At that end of the trains, the inner door is also for staff use only - by catering crew and stores staff loading food and drink into the kitchen, therefore these doors are also painted dark green like the doors to the driving cabs.

 

[Domh245]

That's very much my point. The second door which is at the front of the coach has a step which has the required yellow edge and passengers' operating button but you can hardly distinguish it because of the colour.

That is another crew only door. The very first one with the manual handles is for cab access, but the second one is for access to the kitchen area. If you look at HST rakes the kitchen access door is similarly plain coloured.

As for the light grey vs dark grey doors, the 800/0s which were revinyled from DfT Grey to GWR Green retain the dark grey doors, but the 802s and 800/3 have light grey doors as per the rest of the GWR liveried fleets

 

[TractiveEffort]

That is another crew only door. The very first one with the manual handles is for cab access, but the second one is for access to the kitchen area. If you look at HST rakes the kitchen access door is similarly plain coloured.

Don’t know about any other TOC but the doors on a GWR buffet that are painted the same colour as the livery are emergency use only and are only opened by a break glass and release lever, they aren’t on the CDL system, so they aren’t used for kitchen access, that’s done by passenger doors.

 

[Domh245]

Don’t know about any other TOC but the doors on a GWR buffet that are painted the same colour as the livery are emergency use only and are only opened by a break glass and release lever, they aren’t on the CDL system, so they aren’t used for kitchen access, that’s done by passenger doors.

Yes poor wording on my behalf - the doors by the buffet/kitchen area, which as you note are the same colour as the rest of the body.

 

[TwistedMentat]

These two links show the differences.

Grey door (non kitchen end)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/darylchapman/36615366651

Dark green door (kitchen end)
https://grimlock1997.deviantart.com/art/GWR-Hitachi-Class-800-STJ-27-11-17-717228969

 

[Domh245]

Just to add to that, a picture of the dark grey doors as found on the 800/0s (bar 003 & 004)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/112818408@N03/42130374951/