GWR Dec 19 timetable

[Gagravarr]

Trying out 1P20 for the first time since the change, the 08:13 Worcester Shrub Hill / 09:32 from Oxford to London Paddington

Previously, the 09:30 from Oxford was a 2 or 3 coach turbo, often a few people stood from Oxford to avoid the middle-3 seats, loads standing from Reading, and on 2 coach days people left behind at Slough. Now a 5 coach IET.

Fairly well loaded arriving in Oxford, no-one stood from Oxford but only a handful of seats left. Departing Reading, there's a bunch of people having to stand in the vestibules. Lots more got on in Slough, people stood all along the aisles as well as in the vestibules

Seems to really need to be a 9 coach!

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

1H18 0853 Bristol TM-Paddington ran today and did rather well; 1h20 end to end journey, RT or 1E throughout.

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y94327/2019-12-17/detailed

There was a fatality at Highbridge this morning so XC are diverting and heavily delayed; it's causing some disruption to GWR services but the timetable is holding up and recovering pretty well. I'd say that's a promising sign for the resilience of the plan.

 

[Goldfish62]

I wonder how 5-car IETs are going to cope to/from Cornwall in the pre- and post-Christmas period.

 

[irish_rail]

But there's nowhere to stable the 9 car in Cornwall, that's been said many times on here

1204 doesn't need stabling in Cornwall. Nor does the 1004 for that matter

 

[Goldfish62]

But there's nowhere to stable the 9 car in Cornwall, that's been said many times on here

Just because it's been said on here many times doesn't mean it's true. I recently saw a 9 car stabled at Long Rock. Yes, it fouled the points, but it was stabled there. There's also Ponsandane and Penzance Station.

 

[irish_rail]

Oh and having spoken with the onboard crew now of the 1204 i cam confirm it was wedged throughout , not just from Plymouth. First class full and standing leaving Plymouth. I am not suggesting all Cornwall trains be 9s, but certain services will inevitably become 9s in due course , 1004 and 1204 being two examples. There where at least 2 short forms leaving Plymouth yesterday for London due to inability to couple 5 car sets.
Why are some on here so prepared to defend the indefensible. As thunderer says more 9 cars should of been built in the first place, GWR has been lumped with way too many 5 car sets and the only solution I can see is build some new 9 cars for GWR and GWR hand over some 5 cars to EMR or Avanti.

 

[irish_rail]

Just because it's been said on here many times doesn't mean it's true. I recently saw a 9 car stabled at Long Rock. Yes, it fouled the points, but it was stabled there. There's also Ponsandane and Penzance Station.

But this only applies to trains starting out or finishing at PZ . Anything just visiting could still be a 9 car.

 

[Scottychoo]

You run more trains and more people use them, even 9 or 10 cars won't be enough.
It ain't GWRs fault!

 

[404250]

What is the point in running mostly 10 car trains between Padd and Bristol TM? Would be a better service and need fewer staff with 9 car. 1st class would be in one place. No getting on wrong part for a reservation.

 

[Goldfish62]

Oh and having spoken with the onboard crew now of the 1204 i cam confirm it was wedged throughout , not just from Plymouth. First class full and standing leaving Plymouth. I am not suggesting all Cornwall trains be 9s, but certain services will inevitably become 9s in due course , 1004 and 1204 being two examples. There where at least 2 short forms leaving Plymouth yesterday for London due to inability to couple 5 car sets.
Why are some on here so prepared to defend the indefensible. As thunderer says more 9 cars should of been built in the first place, GWR has been lumped with way too many 5 car sets and the only solution I can see is build some new 9 cars for GWR and GWR hand over some 5 cars to EMR or Avanti.

I doubt that those who consider Cornwall to be a quiet backwater will ever concede the point.

 

[irish_rail]

I doubt that those who consider Cornwall to be a quiet backwater will ever concede the point.

True....with half a million residents it should be considered on the same grounds as a similar sized city, however apparently these half a million people only wish to travel in July and August.......

 

[irish_rail]

What is the point in running mostly 10 car trains between Padd and Bristol TM? Would be a better service and need fewer staff with 9 car. 1st class would be in one place. No getting on wrong part for a reservation.

No point. Same as there is little point in running so many 10 car trains to and from Plymouth. I absolutely dread to imagine the increase in GWRs staff costs. Privately a senior manager admitted to me that too many 5 cars where ordered, but that now GWR have to live with the consequences of this DFT balls up

 

[404250]

No point. Same as there is little point in running so many 10 car trains to and from Plymouth. I absolutely dread to imagine the increase in GWRs staff costs. Privately a senior manager admitted to me that too many 5 cars where ordered, but that now GWR have to live with the consequences of this DFT balls up

That's quite a major error! Not complicated maths to work out how many trains would need to split therefore how many 10 car instead of 9 would be needed. The answer is not too many.

 

[Clarence Yard]

It isn't a major error - it's quite deliberate, done by FG/GWR- not the DfT, and if that "senior manager" wants to discuss it with me, then I will oblige but it will be a meeting without tea and biscuits.

The number of 5 cars matches the requirement to go load 5 on all trains west of Plymouth and to insert a couple of extra off peak Exeter/Plymouths. It was done like that so the Cornish half hourly could be justified, again I repeat, it was done like that so the Cornish half hourly service could be justified. Every single car on that 802 order had to be justified to the DfT, every single extra service in Cornwall had to be justified to the DfT, mainly on the basis of off season loads and most of the 9 car cl.802 ordered were not for South West services anyway.

On or about bank holidays outside of the summer peaks there is the opportunity to request the 12th (9 car 802 set) which will give you a net 2 x 5 car extra in circuit between Plymouth and Penzance at any one time. The fact that this hasn't been done is, I suspect, because the pass loads are still settling down (anecdotally, the punters are still turning up at their "old" times) and minds are concentrated on a successful timetable change and all the engineering led STP changes that GWR are currently processing. If it gets to be a continual problem west of Plymouth, I'm sure changes will be made.

The 9 car on the Banbury is also deliberate because of the other services the unit has to operate, which requires a 9 car set. Once the timetable settles down in January and everyone can have a look at how individual services are doing, then it will be the time to plan a few LTP stock changes.

 

[JN114]

Yes we are but on day 2 of this brave new world; and while some suggested tweaks have been brought to the attention of those that need it through the official channels; on the whole these first few weeks over the holiday period and into the new year we do need to sit and see what happens, people’s habits aren’t going to change overnight.

 

[jimm]

I'm sorry to have to contradict you there, but based on my experience of the 18:28 yesterday, it was quite quiet in standard and first class throughout the train. At least, as far as Oxford it was. Based on the numbers of people boarding vs alighting at Oxford it was almost completely empty to Banbury.

Disruptionto other services may have affected that a little and obviously it's a new service, but even as a potential beneficiary of that service being a 9-car, I have to admit it seems like total overkill in terms of provision. Perhaps not if it were timed an hour earlier - but it's not.

Can't comment on the morning service as I didn't take that.

Day one of a new timetable, a train that runs in a time slot that does not match what used to happen, nor does it sit in what is the regular Oxford/Cotswold pattern the rest of the day and it doesn't call at Reading.

The previous 18.22, a timetable fixture for 13 years, was a Cotswold Line train and also served Reading, but those passengers are now being directed to other trains, so not a surprise it wasn't rammed to the doors. Once Oxford passengers work out what is going on, with a non-stop ride home on offer, loadings may well grow - or a Reading stop might get inserted if there are issues with loadings on other services out of Paddington around that time - or on XC trains from Reading to Oxford...

The disruption meant that the 17.58 to Worcester left Paddington at 18.15 yesterday, so probably picked up plenty of Oxford passengers who might otherwise have been on the 18.28.

I doubt that those who consider Cornwall to be a quiet backwater will ever concede the point.

True....with half a million residents it should be considered on the same grounds as a similar sized city, however apparently these half a million people only wish to travel in July and August.......

So Cornwall is a throbbing metropolis, in need of a procession of 650-seat trains morning, noon and night, is it?

I know it isn't - and so do you. Cities - and their populations - tend not to be spread out over areas stretching 70 miles from end to end.

Some London-Cornwall services may need more seats west of Plymouth than a five-car IET can provide - but that still does not justify nine-cars across the board, or on the majority of trains, or whatever it is you want - or make a boring old business case to lengthen lots of trains.

 

[Goldfish62]

So Cornwall is a throbbing metropolis, in need of a procession of 650-seat trains morning, noon and night, is it?

Apart from your general attitude and tone on this forum being rather grating it's hard to take anything you say seriously when you resort to silly comments like that.

 

[30907]

Oh and having spoken with the onboard crew now of the 1204 i cam confirm it was wedged throughout , not just from Plymouth. First class full and standing leaving Plymouth.

So 9 vice 10 from Padd would have been an improvement? Sounds like it needed a complete relief train.

 

[404250]

Would running 10 to Plymouth then splitting cost a lot less than 9 all the way to penzanze given the extra staff for the 10 and then the uncoupling, moving, and storing of the unused 5?

 

[Clarence Yard]

The 5 car that comes off on the middle of the day isn't stashed. It couples up to the next up working from Penzance.

So yes, it is a very economic arrangement.

 

[irish_rail]

The 5 car that comes off on the middle of the day isn't stashed. It couples up to the next up working from Penzance.

So yes, it is a very economic arrangement.

Try telling that to the first class customers forced to stand through Cornwall on the 1204.
And for the record I am only advocating a few trains a day that should go 9 throughout, NOT all services as Jimm claims.

 

[devonexpress]

People saying that we don't need more 9 car IET's , and 5 cars will do, it's funny that for the last 41 years we've had 8 coach HST's which for the last 10 years have struggled to cope not just in the peaks but daily too.

 

[berneyarms]

Try telling that to the first class customers forced to stand through Cornwall on the 1204.
And for the record I am only advocating a few trains a day that should go 9 throughout, NOT all services as Jimm claims.

But what was the loading like on the new 14:46 service ahead of it from Plymouth?

It may be that many of the passengers who boarded the 12:04 (15:19 ex-Plymouth) were simply not aware of the new service ahead of it - many people are creatures of habit and don’t look out for timetable changes at all.

You can’t really rush to judgments about the new timetable until the additional trains have bedded in and people who can change their travel pattern actually do so.

 

[jimm]

Apart from your general attitude and tone on this forum being rather grating it's hard to take anything you say seriously when you resort to silly comments like that.

What is silly is someone suggesting a largely rural county, with all of half-a-million residents spread across a large area

should be considered on the same grounds as a similar sized city

Cornwall and cities (such as the one just across the Tamar) are chalk and cheese when it comes to planning any type of services - trains included.

The passenger numbers in Cornwall don't lie, whether you like it or not. And those numbers informed the decision-making process over rolling stock and timetabling that Clarence Yard describes above.

And for the record I am only advocating a few trains a day that should go 9 throughout, NOT all services as Jimm claims.

That wasn't the position you started out from though, was it?

And if we were to go through all the individual services you would have us believe are overloaded west of Plymouth, there probably wouldn't be many diagrams left that didn't need a nine-car in one direction or the other through Cornwall.

 

[ATW158Xpress]

Well the timetable will be out of the window today with 2 incidents on the network. One is emergency work on a defective track on the fast London board line near Slough and a person hit by a train between Bath Spa and Chippenham.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Well the timetable will be out of the window today with 2 incidents on the network. One is emergency work on a defective track on the fast London board line near Slough and a person hit by a train between Bath Spa and Chippenham.

Quite the fiasco today, with NR insisting the peak superfasts cancelled due to the Slough issue and the remaining Bristol trains going via Newbury due to the fatality at Box, getting from Bath to Swindon is proving something of a challenge.

 

[cactustwirly]

Quite the fiasco today, with NR insisting the peak superfasts cancelled due to the Slough issue and the remaining Bristol trains going via Newbury due to the fatality at Box, getting from Bath to Swindon is proving something of a challenge.

Makes sense, the peak superfasts will be the least busy

 

[FenMan]

Meanwhile, elsewhere in GWR Land ...

The tweaked North Downs Line timetable is working well so far and performance is hugely improved compared with the all too frequent cancellations and late running of the last few months. It remains to be seen if this improvement will be sustained when SWR begin running their full revised timetable through Guildford in January.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Makes sense, the peak superfasts will be the least busy

Although an 0853 bristol-padd could have called at Swindon and aleviated the confusion - pax to Chippenham & Swindon were eventually sent via Trowbridge.

 

[CharlesR]

People saying that we don't need more 9 car IET's , and 5 cars will do, it's funny that for the last 41 years we've had 8 coach HST's which for the last 10 years have struggled to cope not just in the peaks but daily too.

And since you have seen an increase in services and service patterns that work better with each over. Your evidence being “we had 8 cars for 40 years” doesn’t really provide a valid argument to rethinking this whole project,