GWR operating short 'HSTGTi' sets (see diagrams section for workings)

[hexagon789]

Not without precedent though- Northern Rail 180s- weren't they replaced with something considerably more basic?

158s I believe.

 

[cactustwirly]

I know what they are for (though the station spacing on many of the services they will run makes them probably more of a regional express even if they do in fact call at all stations). What I mean is that if you give the passengers really nice trains (possibly the best on the network) they are not going to be impressed with nasty Turbos replacing them, with their 3+2 seating, barely adequate aircon and stink of diesel fumes.

The Turbos are very good DMUs and are a bit of a 'tardis' in terms of seating capacity (but obviously an 8 car 387 has vastly more seats than a 2 car 165)
With new 2+2 seats, they'd be ideal for Pompey to Cardiff.
I think they have one of the best suspensions ever fitted to a Unit.

 

[hexagon789]

The Turbos are very good DMUs and are a bit of a 'tardis' in terms of seating capacity (but obviously an 8 car 387 has vastly more seats than a 2 car 165)
With new 2+2 seats, they'd be ideal for Pompey to Cardiff.
I think they have one of the best suspensions ever fitted to a Unit.

I think that would work fairly well, but would the public take them over 158s which are arguably higher quality.

 

[cactustwirly]

I think that would work fairly well, but would the public take them over 158s which are arguably higher quality.

Not sure that's true, the turbos are basically 158s in a Networker bodyshell. The seating layout and door positions are the only really major differences in term of passenger experience (in terms of the 166)

 

[hexagon789]

Not sure that's true, the turbos are basically 158s in a Networker bodyshell. The seating layout and door positions are the only really major differences in term of passenger experience (in terms of the 166)

The bogies are different, the 165/166s have I think the same series 3 type as the 150-156, 168-171 whereas the 158/159s have the superior T4. 158s are superior in my view.

 

[urpert]

The bogies are different, the 165/166s have I think the same series 3 type as the 150-156, 168-171 whereas the 158/159s have the superior T4. 158s are superior in my view.

Not to mention the 3+2 seating and suburban layout doors on the Turbos.

 

[hexagon789]

Not to mention the 3+2 seating and suburban layout doors on the Turbos.

That was mentioned in the previous post

 

[cactustwirly]

The bogies are different, the 165/166s have I think the same series 3 type as the 150-156, 168-171 whereas the 158/159s have the superior T4. 158s are superior in my view.

No the 165/6s don't have T3s, I don't know what they're called but they ride much better than 15xs. The ride quality on the T4s may be slightly better, but there isn't a noticable difference between them.

 

[hexagon789]

No the 165/6s don't have T3s, I don't know what they're called but they ride much better than 15xs. The ride quality on the T4s may be slightly better, but there isn't a noticable difference between them.

Not T3s, Series 3s. At least that's what I understand the basic design to be.

P3-17 powered, T3-17 trailing, derived from the Series 3 bogie type.

 

[edwin_m]

It's the same basic design used first on the PEP units and most recently on Turbostars/Electrostars, though I'm sure the design "evolved" along the way. Probably less sophisticated than the T4 bogie (and I'd say the ride on a 170 is definitely a step down from a 158) but doubtless cheaper.

 

[Domh245]

The variant used on the 378s is -26, so yes a few different evolutions through the years!

 

[Bletchleyite]

A good point but are you talking about 165s or 158s? 158s aren't too bad a replacement even if they are a tad older than Turbos.

165s, or even worse 166s with their barely functional aircon. I think a double Class 158 set is of a similar standard.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Not without precedent though- Northern Rail 180s- weren't they replaced with something considerably more basic?

I don't believe GWR would find the "cheap and not very cheerful" approach of the previous Northern franchise to be their aim.

 

[Bessie]

Getting the post back on track discussing HST GTi's. I'm really impressed by how these have been turned out. Surely these will be in service for 10 years or more. It's a sizeable investment by the ROSCO which could generate a decent return IMHO.

 

[hexagon789]

Getting the post back on track discussing HST GTi's. I'm really impressed by how these have been turned out. Surely these will be in service for 10 years or more. It's a sizeable investment by the ROSCO which could generate a decent return IMHO.

As am I, and thoroughly decent job has been done, excluding the poor table provision. Hopefully they will be in service for a good few years to come.

 

[Starmill]

The Cornish mainline services are medium-speed regional expresses

If these are not stopping services then no train in the country is.

 

[hexagon789]

If these are not stopping services then no train in the country is.

Stopping yes, but not in the commuter sense.

 

[Starmill]

In what sense then? I don't understand why Neil always brings it up, but even Truro must have more commuters than places like Whitehaven. Plymouth clearly has a lot more commuters than Carlisle.

 

[hexagon789]

In what sense then? I don't understand why Neil always brings it up, but even Truro must have more commuters than places like Whitehaven. Plymouth clearly has a lot more commuters than Carlisle.

Well, they are regional services in that they link a large area rather than say suburbs with a town or city and they do make decent sized on some of the longer stretches.

 

[Starmill]

Which is essentially exactly the same as the Cumbrian Coast line. There is only one stop of as much as 15 minutes.

 

[hexagon789]

Which is essentially exactly the same as the Cumbrian Coast line. There is only one stop of as much as 15 minutes.

That's why I would call them Regional rather than Commuter services

 

[co-tr-paul]

Right then. Let's get this straight. These are for GWR secondary services from PZ to CF at farthest. Nothing to do with any other route or franchise. The set currently on test is a prototype not what is a finalised design. Please can we all bear this in mind ? Today's faults with doors have been electrical not mechanical or design.

Most travelling public in the areas to be served are already welcoming these trains even before they enter service.

The introduction of these trains will give a much improved timetable with additional seats. Also an improvement over the alternative planned 158 option. Turbos were not part of the plan for down here. Even the enthusiasts will be happy what with naming and just the fact they are hst power cars !!
So can we keep on thread topic and be thankful of the improvements we are getting in this difficult time ?

Yes it would be nice to run a set of a class 50 in large logo blue with mk1 compartment 1st class stock every 30 mins but...... .

 

[43096]

Getting the post back on track discussing HST GTi's. I'm really impressed by how these have been turned out. Surely these will be in service for 10 years or more. It's a sizeable investment by the ROSCO which could generate a decent return IMHO.

The ROSCO for the first set (and the next four) being FirstGroup. The other six sets will be Angel Trains owned.

 

[Goldfish62]

Right then. Let's get this straight. These are for GWR secondary services from PZ to CF at farthest. Nothing to do with any other route or franchise. The set currently on test is a prototype not what is a finalised design. Please can we all bear this in mind ? Today's faults with doors have been electrical not mechanical or design.

Most travelling public in the areas to be served are already welcoming these trains even before they enter service.

The introduction of these trains will give a much improved timetable with additional seats. Also an improvement over the alternative planned 158 option. Turbos were not part of the plan for down here. Even the enthusiasts will be happy what with naming and just the fact they are hst power cars !!
So can we keep on thread topic and be thankful of the improvements we are getting in this difficult time ?

Yes it would be nice to run a set of a class 50 in large logo blue with mk1 compartment 1st class stock every 30 mins but...... .

I'm glad someone has brought some perspective to the topic.

 

[D2007wsm]

I think this is a vast improvement on the 150/1s which used to appear on the Cardiff to Tauntons. Quite often coming from Bristol Temple Meads towards Weston-super-Mare in the evenings these have been rammed full and in the summer rather unpleasant with the heat.

At least with these short HSTs customers will have more chance of travelling in comfort with a seat, whether they are high or low density. Even the HD sets seats are spaced with the non vertically challenged in mind. Also, with aircon which generally works they will be far more pleasant.

The only thing I will miss is the slam doors, this is part of what makes a HST. I know the new sliding doors will speed up dwell times and make the job easier for platform and on-board staff, but I will miss the beusement of non experienced travellers when the train stops and they can't figure out the doors.

I have caught an 800 on a diagram which was previously a HST and these do not compare, they are noisy, for a new train was rattling a lot and the seats are frankly uncomfortable.

 

[CC 72100]

I think this is a vast improvement on the 150/1s which used to appear on the Cardiff to Tauntons. Quite often coming from Bristol Temple Meads towards Weston-super-Mare in the evenings these have been rammed full and in the summer rather unpleasant with the heat.

At least with these short HSTs customers will have more chance of travelling in comfort with a seat, whether they are high or low density. Even the HD sets seats are spaced with the non vertically challenged in mind. Also, with aircon which generally works they will be far more pleasant.

Exactly my views - but unfortunately some are only out to criticise having presumably forgot that what you describe was the norm 12 months ago.

 

[hexagon789]

Is it true that Notch 5 has been locked out on the power cars for the 2+4 sets?

 

[Deafdoggie]

I travelled on one of the 2+4 HST sets yesterday, and I was very impressed. Wasn't expecting it, when it said "Four Carriages" I expected a double sprinter, then a HST came into view. Think the seating is ideal for the journeys involved, and there is plenty of luggage space too. Ideal for the Cornish holiday traffic

 

[HSTEd]

I assume the apparent 100mph speed limit is due to a lack of brake force due to not having five trailers in formation?

 

[hexagon789]

I assume the apparent 100mph speed limit is due to a lack of brake force due to not having five trailers in formation?

I've been told very mixed things about that. A guy on another thread who was involved in early braking tests with them said that originally you couldn't do 125 with fewer than 5 trailers but after changes to the pads and braking levels you could run two power cars back-to-back at 125 if you wanted.