GWR operating short 'HSTGTi' sets (see diagrams section for workings)

co-tr-paul

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To save bits of stuff being posted on the GWR Livery and Night Riviera threads and elsewhere, decided its about time that this was put in one place.
So for those who dont yet know, some 11 sets of four car HSTs are being used for mainllne stopping services between Penzance/Plymouth/Bristol starting dec 2018 timetable in lieu of cascaded 158s which are delayed/cancelled due to IEP being behind schedule.
They are to be fitted with CET and sliding doors. 24 power cars are being modified and will be retained after the introduction of 800/1/2 fleet. Livery will be the new green. They are expected to be in use for some time well into the next franchise.
Coaches at Doncaster for modification currently are:
TS:
42093
42168
42177
TGS:
44055
Power cars are to come from the Firstgroup owned and Angel Trains leased batches. So far, the following have had cab desk to air cubicle wiring added in readiness and a repaint:
43093
43188
43194
43198
First set due at Plymouth in july for extensive testing before second set is done. A diagram has already been identified, m-f 0600 ex Penzance, for testing.
 
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wls1

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Will this only be for the GWR ones, as the scotrail ones are also 4-5 carriages so can technically be HSTGTIs as well.
 

D1009

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To save bits of stuff being posted on the GWR Livery and Night Riviera threads and elsewhere, decided its about time that this was put in one place.
So for those who dont yet know, some 11 sets of four car HSTs are being used for mainllne stopping services between Penzance/Plymouth/Bristol starting dec 2018 timetable in lieu of cascaded 158s which are delayed/cancelled due to IEP being behind schedule.
They are to be fitted with CET and sliding doors. 24 power cars are being modified and will be retained after the introduction of 800/1/2 fleet. Livery will be the new green. They are expected to be in use for some time well into the next franchise.
Coaches at Doncaster for modification currently are:
TS:
42093
42168
42177
TGS:
44055
Power cars are to come from the Firstgroup owned and Angel Trains leased batches. So far, the following have had cab desk to air cubicle wiring added in readiness and a repaint:
43093
43188
43194
43198
First set due at Plymouth in july for extensive testing before second set is done. A diagram has already been identified, m-f 0600 ex Penzance, for testing.
For the benefit of numpties like me, could you explain what cab desk to air cubicle wiring is?
 

59CosG95

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Will this only be for the GWR ones, as the scotrail ones are also 4-5 carriages so can technically be HSTGTIs as well.

I think the fact that co-tr-paul has put the title as "The GWR HSTGTi thread" answers your question. ;)
 

smiffy9373

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GTi is from the motoring term used on the VW Golf. You have a normal Golf and the faster, sportier Golf GTi. The 2+4 and 2+5 HSTs will just be faster HSTs as less weight to lug around. I believe GTi actually stands for Grand Tourer injection. It's just a nickname the short sets have been given.

Sent from my XT1039 using Tapatalk
 

D1009

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GTi is from the motoring term used on the VW Golf. You have a normal Golf and the faster, sportier Golf GTi. The 2+4 and 2+5 HSTs will just be faster HSTs as less weight to lug around. I believe GTi actually stands for Grand Tourer injection. It's just a nickname the short sets have been given.
Personally I find the term inappropriate. Is it actually GWR's intention to significantly accelerate the trains concerned? Presumably they could derate the engines to save on fuel consumption.
 

BestWestern

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Personally I find the term inappropriate. Is it actually GWR's intention to significantly accelerate the trains concerned? Presumably they could derate the engines to save on fuel consumption.

I really wouldn't lose any sleep over it..
 
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MK Tom

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I believe the GTi nickname harks back to Virgin Cross Country days, on the Manchester-Scotland route?
 

mic505

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Crosscountry sets are being done now, as part of their Direct Award agreement.
 

43096

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To save bits of stuff being posted on the GWR Livery and Night Riviera threads and elsewhere, decided its about time that this was put in one place.

So for those who dont yet know, some 11 sets of four car HSTs are being used for mainllne stopping services between Penzance/Plymouth/Bristol starting dec 2018 timetable in lieu of cascaded 158s which are delayed/cancelled due to IEP being behind schedule.

They are to be fitted with CET and sliding doors. 24 power cars are being modified and will be retained after the introduction of 800/1/2 fleet. Livery will be the new green. They are expected to be in use for some time well into the next franchise.

Coaches at Doncaster for modification currently are:

TS:

42093

42168

42177

TGS:

44055

Power cars are to come from the Firstgroup owned and Angel Trains leased batches. So far, the following have had cab desk to air cubicle wiring added in readiness and a repaint:

43093

43188

43194

43198

First set due at Plymouth in july for extensive testing before second set is done. A diagram has already been identified, m-f 0600 ex Penzance, for testing.

When was 43188 done? AFAIAA it has not been to Doncaster.

As for the subsequent sets, that is surely dependent on IEP introduction and the need to release sets to ScotRail.
 

cjmillsnun

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Personally I find the term inappropriate. Is it actually GWR's intention to significantly accelerate the trains concerned? Presumably they could derate the engines to save on fuel consumption.

I suspect that yes they are looking for the increased acceleration as it would make them closer to that of the IEP sets that will also be running on the GWML.
 

221129

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I suspect that yes they are looking for the increased acceleration as it would make them closer to that of the IEP sets that will also be running on the GWML.

Got nothing to do with IEPs on the GWML... It is to get closer to sprinter timings.
 

CosherB

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Personally I find the term inappropriate. Is it actually GWR's intention to significantly accelerate the trains concerned? Presumably they could derate the engines to save on fuel consumption.

Please, there really are more important things to worry about ....
 

co-tr-paul

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The GTi nickname is used here as it is now regarded as the most popular term for these sets including within GWR. I have even heard our Fleet Engineering Manager use the term be it official or not !
More of a Sprinter acceleration than SET... .
43188 reported as one of the first done on livery thread, maybe someone can confirm ??

Forgot to state that there will be trolly catering on them.
 
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fgwrich

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I suspect that yes they are looking for the increased acceleration as it would make them closer to that of the IEP sets that will also be running on the GWML.

Got nothing to do with IEPs on the GWML... It is to get closer to sprinter timings.

Indeed so, in this case it doesn't matter that a HST has a higher overall top speed than a sprinter, rather that the HST GTI's can match or come closer to the acceleration and deceleration offered by that relative to a Sprinter. The linespeeds will virtually remain the same down in the West Country (bar the sections from Exeter to Bristol to Cardiff where a HST GTI will be able to take advantage of the higher line speed), the main advantage will be the dropping of at least 3 / 4 vehicles including the heavier TRFB.
 

fgwrich

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Much as 158s are OK, I can see this being a very popular move with passengers.

So can I to be honest! Not least in that a Mk3 will still offer a better and slightly more expansive travel experience than a Sprinter or 158 - Better luggage space, wifi, power sockets, no underfloor engines and plenty more seats for a start. I just hope First retain enough vehicles to allow the potential of further conversions in the future!
 

47802

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So the same sh*tty cram them in, ruin the Mark 3 layout as now? Not really what is wanted for the market they will be serving.

Why would they change the seating? I expect they will be doing the minimum to make them 2020 compliant, and with the likely high operational cost compared to a DMU whoever wins the next franchise will probably look to get rid of them, after all they are there to cover a DMU shortage not provide Intercity services like the Scotrail HST's.
 

theageofthetra

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Ok there will probably be a thousand good reasons why but have they ever looked at putting an extra, shortened & without cab HST power car on a set to improve acceleration. Similar to the common practice in the States of A & B units on early generation diesels. Or thinking about it like on the Long Thin Drag Hastings Diesel railtour
 
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fgwrich

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So the same sh*tty cram them in, ruin the Mark 3 layout as now? Not really what is wanted for the market they will be serving.

Considering they'll effectively be replacing 150/1s, 150/2s and the odd 153s I see the HST layouts as an improvement. Not least I'd rather have HST than a /1 on a PNZ Stopper. Besides, they're hardly going to be used as Tourist type trains are they?
 

43096

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Considering they'll effectively be replacing 150/1s, 150/2s and the odd 153s I see the HST layouts as an improvement. Not least I'd rather have HST than a /1 on a PNZ Stopper. Besides, they're hardly going to be used as Tourist type trains are they?

So having just two bays of four per coach (or none in the TSD) is the right layout, is it? I suspect there are plenty of groups on those trains who might like to sit round a table, rather than being split up looking at a tombstone in front of them. The previous internal layout with a mix of bays and airlines would be a good one to go for.
 

headshot119

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So having just two bays of four per coach (or none in the TSD) is the right layout, is it? I suspect there are plenty of groups on those trains who might like to sit round a table, rather than being split up looking at a tombstone in front of them. The previous internal layout with a mix of bays and airlines would be a good one to go for.

And exactly how many tables does a 150/1 have ?
 

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