GWR Sunday Cancellations - crew availability - why?

[Deepgreen]

Grim again today (a Saturday, but weekends now seem to be the new Sundays!) on the NDL, with late running meaning that the train I was at Gomshall to catch, to travel to London for a pre-Christmas gathering, sped straight through, and the next one the other way (a back-up option for me via Guildford) was cancelled. GWR excelling again...

 

[Chingy]

I travelled by train for the first time in at least a year, on a Saturday, today. Travelled from BPW - CDF and return with GWR.

Weirdly, and surprisingly, both journeys went smoothly. 3 of us travelled on a group save return for £30 for the 3 of us (a tenner each) so reasonable value. Got seats on the train over, albeit some of the last seats in coach B. Arrived into CDF just a few minutes late.

Coming back it was weirdly quiet. Got a table seat in coach B again, with only around another 6-8 people in the whole coach. Arrived on time in BPW.

When walking around the shops at Cardiff, I did notice the main car park was full with a long queue of cars waiting to get in and some traffic queues on surrounding roads.

I will always prefer the car for convenience, especially for longer journeys but the main exception being when I’m travelling into a major city centre. I’ve now moved towards driving around half way by car to a suitable park & ride type station (Longbridge for Birmingham, BPW for Cardiff, Didcot for London, Hooton for Liverpool etc) and then getting the train into the city itself. There are some reasonable value ticket prices out there on GWR for shorter journeys to be fair, it’s the longer journeys that are overpriced.

 

[cholsey-choose]

Which lines? And cutting weekday services many of which have already been cut to back to the bone as part of the DfT cost cutting agenda in order to transfer staff resources to Sundays isn't going to solve anything. It's going to make the railways even more unattractive.

The stopping services between Reading and Oxford are often basically empty on weekday daytimes.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

What stopping services between Reading and Oxford?

BR Times - Train Times & Station Platform Finder

Alternative journey planner featuring full schedule details including platforms and connection times, for every passenger train on the National Rail network.

www.brtimes.com

 

[12LDA28C]

The stopping services between Reading and Oxford are often basically empty on weekday daytimes.

I assume you mean Didcot and Oxford?

 

[cholsey-choose]

Many (all?) of them these days involve a change at didcot. But both legs are often pretty empty.

 

[Goldfish62]

The stopping services between Reading and Oxford are often basically empty on weekday daytimes.

I use them sometimes. They're not busy, but not being busy is not a case to withdraw passenger services, unless the railway network were to be run on a purely commercial basis, in which case there'd be few lines left. Also, they're usually 8 coaches. If they were a 2 or 3 coach 165 they'd appear a lot busier.

What do you suggest? Withdrawing all off peak services for Tilehurst, Pangbourne, Goring & Streatley and Cholsey? It wouldn't save a lot. The high fixed cost element would remain, unchanged and there'd be no rolling stock saving as it would still be needed for the peaks. Just a few hours-worth of driver savings.

I suppose you could split the train at Reading to run a 4 coach service between Reading and Didcot to create the illusion of busy-ness, but that itself comes at a resource cost.

 

[Taplowgreen]

Looking at the current GWR status this morning (over 200 services cancelled in full or part), I think it's probably the worst Sunday on GWR so far in this shambolic period since the pay rise went in.

I shudder to think what next weekend will be like with so many extra people relying on the railway to get them home for Christmas.

There should be a campaign NOW from GWR and other affected TOCs, not the usual plaintive Twitter message on Friday, warning people of the likely situation and encouraging them to make other arrangements if at all possible.

A ruined Christmas casts a long shadow.

 

[father_jack]

I shudder to think what next weekend will be like with so many extra people relying on the railway to get them home for Christmas.

See post #66 on the previous page..........

 

[PyrahnaRanger]

Your suggestion would result in a doom loop of cuts with the railways becoming less and less attractive to use and less relevant in people's lives.

Some might argue we’re there already. Many people I speak to either use the railway as a last resort, or only if they have a backup plan available to them. Personally, if I’m travelling somewhere by train, I go the day before I need to be there and book a hotel so I know I’ll be there, I’ve been let down by cancelled trains and missed connections too often now, although I have made a tidy sum on delay repay…

 

[sh24]

The timing of Christmas means this years peak travel days are smoothed out somewhat - from the Friday 20th onwards. Despite that, not going to be pretty.

 

[12LDA28C]

I use them sometimes. They're not busy, but not being busy is not a case to withdraw passenger services, unless the railway network were to be run on a purely commercial basis, in which case there'd be few lines left. Also, they're usually 8 coaches. If they were a 2 or 3 coach 165 they'd appear a lot busier.

What do you suggest? Withdrawing all off peak services for Tilehurst, Pangbourne, Goring & Streatley and Cholsey? It wouldn't save a lot. The high fixed cost element would remain, unchanged and there'd be no rolling stock saving as it would still be needed for the peaks. Just a few hours-worth of driver savings.

I suppose you could split the train at Reading to run a 4 coach service between Reading and Didcot to create the illusion of busy-ness, but that itself comes at a resource cost.

Which trains are you referring to here? Evidently stopping services from Reading to Didcot as there are no direct trains from Reading to Oxford that stop at all local stations and the shuttle from Didcot to Oxford is a 2-car 165.

 

[Harpo]

GWR has it’s head firmly in the sand. Its website still offers advance tickets for a full train service on Sunday 22nd.

Delay repay etc. is a useful hindsight pill, but why isn’t consumer law protecting those being fooled into buying an undeliverable product?

 

[Snow1964]

Look on the bright side for anyone who needs to travel on a Monday

Buy the cheaper weekend tickets, and GWR allows you to travel Monday peak, (can be used anytime Monday) seems to happen every week now.

 

[Kite159]

I travelled by train for the first time in at least a year, on a Saturday, today. Travelled from BPW - CDF and return with GWR.

Weirdly, and surprisingly, both journeys went smoothly. 3 of us travelled on a group save return for £30 for the 3 of us (a tenner each) so reasonable value. Got seats on the train over, albeit some of the last seats in coach B. Arrived into CDF just a few minutes late.

Coming back it was weirdly quiet. Got a table seat in coach B again, with only around another 6-8 people in the whole coach. Arrived on time in BPW.

When walking around the shops at Cardiff, I did notice the main car park was full with a long queue of cars waiting to get in and some traffic queues on surrounding roads.

I will always prefer the car for convenience, especially for longer journeys but the main exception being when I’m travelling into a major city centre. I’ve now moved towards driving around half way by car to a suitable park & ride type station (Longbridge for Birmingham, BPW for Cardiff, Didcot for London, Hooton for Liverpool etc) and then getting the train into the city itself. There are some reasonable value ticket prices out there on GWR for shorter journeys to be fair, it’s the longer journeys that are overpriced.

One advantage of taking the car when shopping is the ability to head back to said car to drop off purchases before returning to the shops/food. Rather than having to carry things around with you

 

[officewalla]

I use them sometimes. They're not busy, but not being busy is not a case to withdraw passenger services, unless the railway network were to be run on a purely commercial basis, in which case there'd be few lines left. Also, they're usually 8 coaches. If they were a 2 or 3 coach 165 they'd appear a lot busier.

What do you suggest? Withdrawing all off peak services for Tilehurst, Pangbourne, Goring & Streatley and Cholsey? It wouldn't save a lot. The high fixed cost element would remain, unchanged and there'd be no rolling stock saving as it would still be needed for the peaks. Just a few hours-worth of driver savings.

I suppose you could split the train at Reading to run a 4 coach service between Reading and Didcot to create the illusion of busy-ness, but that itself comes at a resource cost.

Many of the off peak services from Didcot to Pad are 4 car already. They are generally busy but nowhere near full throughout the day and more so during school holidays. Did-Ox is the same with some connecting services very full and others almost empty depending on the time of day. The first 165 off Ox to Rdg for example might only carry half a dozen passengers (4am is never a great time to be up) but the stoppers around 6-9am are often full.

 

[Goldfish62]

Many of the off peak services from Didcot to Pad are 4 car already. They are generally busy but nowhere near full throughout the day and more so during school holidays. Did-Ox is the same with some connecting services very full and others almost empty depending on the time of day. The first 165 off Ox to Rdg for example might only carry half a dozen passengers (4am is never a great time to be up) but the stoppers around 6-9am are often full.

I think we can conclude that withdrawing the services wouldn't be a very good idea!

 

[aar0]

When walking around the shops at Cardiff, I did notice the main car park was full with a long queue of cars waiting to get in and some traffic queues on surrounding roads.

It can be awful, I drove there for about 10am on a Saturday in October and spent over 30 minutes queuing to get into the car park, and when leaving I was queuing for so long the ticket barrier wanted another hour’s pay! I would always get the train - this was just to try out our new car.

 

[Djgr]

I think we can conclude that withdrawing the services wouldn't be a very good idea!

Sound like the usual overprovision in the South, whilst trains in and out of the likes of Leeds, Liverpool, Manchester forever rammed

 

[43066]

Sound like the usual overprovision in the South, whilst trains in and out of the likes of Leeds, Liverpool, Manchester forever rammed

I’m pretty sure GWR don’t serve those destinations!

 

[Djgr]

I’m pretty sure GWR don’t serve those destinations!

Indeed but it highlights one of the issues from not treating the railway as a network.

 

[Mwanesh]

Indeed but it highlights one of the issues from not treating the railway as a network.

Its still a network .Its just segmented for management.Ask those who worked in BR days .

 

[Dr Hoo]

Its still a network .Its just segmented for management.Ask those who worked in BR days .

Well that was what sectorisation and profit centres were all about. I was on ScotRail, for example, and didn’t worry much about the GWR HSTs or the London Tilbury and Southend route (aka Misery Line at the time).

 

[cholsey-choose]

I use them sometimes. They're not busy, but not being busy is not a case to withdraw passenger services, unless the railway network were to be run on a purely commercial basis, in which case there'd be few lines left. Also, they're usually 8 coaches. If they were a 2 or 3 coach 165 they'd appear a lot busier.

What do you suggest? Withdrawing all off peak services for Tilehurst, Pangbourne, Goring & Streatley and Cholsey? It wouldn't save a lot. The high fixed cost element would remain, unchanged and there'd be no rolling stock saving as it would still be needed for the peaks. Just a few hours-worth of driver savings.

I suppose you could split the train at Reading to run a 4 coach service between Reading and Didcot to create the illusion of busy-ness, but that itself comes at a resource cost.

Oh I have no suggestions and I'm quite happy with everything about that route (up until the inevitable delay before getting a platform at Oxford, of course). I was just responding to someone upthread who asked for specific examples of empty trains in the daytime.

 

[1D54]

Look on the bright side for anyone who needs to travel on a Monday

Buy the cheaper weekend tickets, and GWR allows you to travel Monday peak, (can be used anytime Monday) seems to happen every week now.

Rather risky shelling out money in the hope of cancellations. What if the service operates? You are left with tickets that are of no use and have to purchase new ones for Monday travel.

 

[BlueLeanie]

Well, that was awful.

I squeezed onto a service at Reading at lunchtime to London, and it was rammed up the aisle

Returning from London, they were clearly short of gateline staff too as people were being forced to climb over the barriers when tickets wouldn't accept. The bloke in front me had a right old tantrum when I asked him if he could step aside and let people with valid tickets through.

"No! F You" - Terribly posh accent too, then as I pushed in and inserted my retro paper ticket it was a further "F You" and referred to me as a popular pork sausage and gravy dish by Mr Brains.

The service was totally rammed with people left on the platform and I suspect people still trying to get through the gateline when the train departed.

I appreciate there is an issue with staffing and a further issue with GWR trains being stuck behind Betty services due to engineering works on the relief lines, but on days of disruption there desperately needs to be high capacity crowdbusters operating a non-stop Reading-Paddington shuttle.

 

[cholsey-choose]

Returning from London, they were clearly short of gateline staff too as people were being forced to climb over the barriers when tickets wouldn't accept. The bloke in front me had a right old tantrum when I asked him if he could step aside and let people with valid tickets through.

Oh is that why they left the gatelines open at Reading today?

Rather risky shelling out money in the hope of cancellations. What if the service operates? You are left with tickets that are of no use and have to purchase new ones for Monday travel.

Nah. The ticket acceptance is very general - basically buy any super off peak ticket for the Sunday. They announce in advance that cancellations will happen and tickets will be accepted on Monday, doesn't seem to be tied to any particular train. Plus worst case scenario these tickets are refundable minus a fee.

Your worry makes sense for advance tickets, but GWR are not limiting it to those.

 

[infobleep]

Grim again today (a Saturday, but weekends now seem to be the new Sundays!) on the NDL, with late running meaning that the train I was at Gomshall to catch, to travel to London for a pre-Christmas gathering, sped straight through, and the next one the other way (a back-up option for me via Guildford) was cancelled. GWR excelling again...

It was bad today if you wanted to travel from say Sandhurst.

A previous weekend they stopped the fast trains at the stopping stations. This led to delays. Since that day they haven't repeated this.

Did it go disastrously wrong or do Network Rail Sussex not like them running late?

 

[JonathanH]

A previous weekend they stopped the fast trains at the stopping stations. This led to delays. Since that day they haven't repeated this.

1850 from Reading to Gatwick Airport has done all (GWR) stations tonight. First one from Reading since 1620. Just 2305 to come, if it runs.

 

[irish_rail]

Sound like the usual overprovision in the South, whilst trains in and out of the likes of Leeds, Liverpool, Manchester forever rammed

Funnily enough, I spend a good deal of time in the North west. My observations are generally over provision of carriages compared with numbers actually travelling. Especially when compared with much of GWR where we are putting up with 5 car IETs on many intercity services. There may be over provision of carriages on commuter routes into London at certain times of the day, but do not tar all of the south with the same brush. Indeed the north west does considerably better than the south west when it comes to funding and train service provision!