Harrogate unattended ticket barriers proposal

[johntea]

Harrogate train station set to have unmanned exit? - The Stray Ferret

Harrogate train station could be set to have unmanned barriers on the exit leading to East Parade — despite safety concerns.

www.thestrayferret.co.uk

Harrogate train station could be set to have unmanned barriers on the exit leading to East Parade.

The barriers are currently monitored by staff, who help with ticket queries.

But a source contacted the Stray Ferret to say rail operator Northern planned to remove staff from the East Parade exit.

The source was concerned this posed safety risks if people needed to leave the station quickly and would also particularly inconvenience disabled people who require help at the barriers.

I am assuming some sort of CCTV would be installed and monitored by the barrier staff at the 'main' station barriers, but it seems a rather odd cost cutting decision if it turns out to be true! (there is a train service arriving/departing from this platform around every half hour, or hourly later in the night so hardly a quiet station)

 

[Hadders]

Many stations have a barrier line that is monitored remotely from elsewhere in the station, Gloucester is one such station. The ticket barriers work normally and there is a call for help button and CCTV camera if you need help. WHen I used the unmanned barrier a couple of years ago I wanted to keep my ticket for a delay repay claim. I just pressed the button, told them what I wanted to do, flashed my ticket at the CCTv camera and the barriers were opened for me.

 

[swt_passenger]

I think there’s been a CCTV monitored secondary barriered entrance at Havant for nearly 10 years. I think it’s fairly standard technology. I think a lot of people seem to interpret “must be supervised” as “must be manned”…

 

[DaventryRabbit]

Aberdeen has a set of these.
I had an All Line Rover and pressed the button for help. Before I could even show my ticket to the camera the gate opened
The Guard on my Inverness Train was checking tickets as people got on so assume this was known at 'Control'

 

[vlad]

Aberdeen has a set of these.
I had an All Line Rover and pressed the button for help. Before I could even show my ticket to the camera the gate opened
The Guard on my Inverness Train was checking tickets as people got on so assume this was known at 'Control'

It's all right for some!

The time I pressed the button for help I was apparently ignored completely. After a few minutes a cleaner turned up so I asked them to let me through!

 

[deltic]

The Netherlands seems to operate fine with unstaffed stations having ticket barriers and even major stations have no-one on the ticket barriers

 

[bramling]

Harrogate train station set to have unmanned exit? - The Stray Ferret

Harrogate train station could be set to have unmanned barriers on the exit leading to East Parade — despite safety concerns.

www.thestrayferret.co.uk

I am assuming some sort of CCTV would be installed and monitored by the barrier staff at the 'main' station barriers, but it seems a rather odd cost cutting decision if it turns out to be true! (there is a train service arriving/departing from this platform around every half hour, or hourly later in the night so hardly a quiet station)

Seems fine to me. These are the sorts of efficiencies the railway will need to make, and probably should have been making well before Covid. Staff hanging around on gatelines is an unnecessary layer of fat, especially where they aren’t trained to carry out other tasks.

 

[AlexNL]

The Netherlands seems to operate fine with unstaffed stations having ticket barriers and even major stations have no-one on the ticket barriers

That's correct, we don't have gateline attendants in the Netherlands and our gates are closed 24/7*. There's an info totem + emergency release button at each gateline, so should the need arise it's possible to quickly open the gates.


* An exception is when engineering work takes place, gates may be opened then so that passengers can continue their journey using replacement transport without having to tap out/tap in. When the replacement traffic involves taking a metro, the metro also has an open gate.

 

[Starmill]

The Netherlands seems to operate fine with unstaffed stations having ticket barriers and even major stations have no-one on the ticket barriers

Your ticket or card will actually work in their gates, though.

 

[deltic]

Your ticket or card will actually work in their gates, though.

They frequently don't

 

[AlexNL]

They frequently don't

In 10+ years of using them several times a week, I've never had an issue.

If it's an OV-chipkaart you've got issues with, it might be that the antenna in the card is damaged and the card needs replacing. If it's paper tickets you've got issues with, make sure you don't fold along the code and that the print is of decent quality. If you show a single ticket on a phone, it could be that the NFC chip in your phone is causing issues and disabling it may solve it.

 

[scrapy]

Tried the help button on the Weston Rd exit at Crewe recently which was unmanned (I had a rover ticket and the gate just opened) No questions asked as to what ticket I had.

 

[geoffk]

That's correct, we don't have gateline attendants in the Netherlands and our gates are closed 24/7*. There's an info totem + emergency release button at each gateline, so should the need arise it's possible to quickly open the gates.


* An exception is when engineering work takes place, gates may be opened then so that passengers can continue their journey using replacement transport without having to tap out/tap in. When the replacement traffic involves taking a metro, the metro also has an open gate.

Last time I was in the Netherlands and used the train, all stations were "open", but that was in 1997! Was the UK first in introducing them?

 

[GardenRail]

Never had a problem with the one at Snow Hill (back entrance).

 

[142 007]

I want to say that Exeter Central had this at the second entrance

 

[Vespa]

Should do the same to Blackpool North, get rid of the station staff, make it open and train staff check tickets on trains.

The atmosphere at Blackpool North would improve immensely or am I talking too much sense ?

 

[dk1]

I want to say that Exeter Central had this at the second entrance

Yes on the been there for many years on the New North Road exit.

 

[deltic]

In 10+ years of using them several times a week, I've never had an issue.

If it's an OV-chipkaart you've got issues with, it might be that the antenna in the card is damaged and the card needs replacing. If it's paper tickets you've got issues with, make sure you don't fold along the code and that the print is of decent quality. If you show a single ticket on a phone, it could be that the NFC chip in your phone is causing issues and disabling it may solve it.

The issue is the move to contactless payment with some credit cards not being accepted.

 

[fandroid]

The Netherlands seems to operate fine with unstaffed stations having ticket barriers and even major stations have no-one on the ticket barriers

I had that experience at Leiden Centraal. Just used the help point and talked to a staff member somewhere in the Netherlands!

 

[Llandudno]

Tried the help button on the Weston Rd exit at Crewe recently which was unmanned (I had a rover ticket and the gate just opened) No questions asked as to what ticket I had.

Yep, I have used that exit a few times as well, handy if breaking journey and you fancy a McDonalds, Greggs or Subway rather than paying rip off SSP prices in the station.

No pub by that exit, mind you the pubs near the main exit are bloody awful!

 

[Geeves]

Even we don't know internally (at Northern anyway) but from the new bands for station grades, ticket offices closing etc its likely that there will be enough staff to do everything without needing hired in staff. Staff milling around outside etc.

 

[185]

OLR's Northern should consider the losses - I've watched one of these for an hour by camera and the unmanned gates were climbed approximately every 8-10 minutes.

As a short term measure, agency staff from STM or Carlisle, or any staffing firm could fill in the gaps.

 

[dk1]

No pub by that exit, mind you the pubs near the main exit are bloody awful!

They are not that great but I've had some good nights getting absolutely wasted in some if them. No idea how I got back to my room in the Crewe Arms or Holiday Inn Express

 

[Geeves]

OLR's Northern should consider the losses - I've watched one of these for an hour by camera and the unmanned gates were climbed approximately every 8-10 minutes.

As a short term measure, agency staff from STM or Carlisle, or any staffing firm could fill in the gaps.

Even with staff they are only a deterrent, they wouldn't be able to stop folks from jumping over, which they often do anyway.

Less chance of staff being assaulted as well.

 

[AlexNL]

Gates are useful when it comes to thwarting the occasional faredodger, i.e. someone who does it "because there's never checks anyway" but doesn't want to be seen dodging a fare. Gates won't deter someone who is just not willing to pay a fare. Those are the people who tailgate or crawl over the gates.

It's been like that here in the Netherlands: after installing gates on the metro system, Amsterdam's operator saw revenue from metro journeys go up by a lot. The extra revenue generated by closing the gates was significant enough that they could cancel some planned cuts to service levels. But it hasn't stopped faredodging altogether.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The majority of fare dodging is people who pay when challenged. A gateline provides that challenge.

Railcards and the wrong ticket aside it also prevents many cases of people unintentionally boarding without a valid ticket, e.g. if their season has expired, and so prevents them getting in trouble.