Hastings Diesel Unit

[STEVIEBOY1]

Not to mention an extremely good range of beers

Yes I had noticed that too!
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As a Hastings follower through and through I would agree with you but fitting that BIG buffet car was an inspired move by HDL plus a rewiring masterpiece! That buffet car does excellent trade on tour. And I never thought I'd say it - I find I tolerate the CEP trailer too - though I detested them when they invaded Hastings back in 86. I do hope a Hastings trailer replaces it eventually though and in an ideal world, a 1st trailer will see the light of day though the central locking issue and 11 doors let alone other issues may well dictate otherwise.

I recall going home from a Saturday shift at Tunbridge Wells Travel Centre and liaising with a couple of other railway mates - a six pack from OddBins shared in a Ist class compartment - all very civilised. Guard didn't mind - we all knew each other. Good days!

Am I correct in assuming from reading the above paragraphs, that the first class on HDLs were of the side corridor compartment type that also had a door to allow direct access onto the platforms too. ? If so, were they not rather cramped. I guess one way to bring one of those back is to permantly lock the individual outer doors, so just have access via the side corridor, which is similar to stock of that type that is still used on some mainline charters.

 

[yorksrob]

Yes I had noticed that too!
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Am I correct in assuming from reading the above paragraphs, that the first class on HDLs were of the side corridor compartment type that also had a door to allow direct access onto the platforms too. ? If so, were they not rather cramped. I guess one way to bring one of those back is to permantly lock the individual outer doors, so just have access via the side corridor, which is similar to stock of that type that is still used on some mainline charters.

Yes, the compartment side had a door to each compartment - similar to the VEP compartments, so not particularly cramped.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

The HDL unit is doing a charter to Kensington Olympia and return on 21 Dec. Timings are shown on their website. Hope they have a good journey.
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Units 1031-1037 were the Buffet fitted trains. Two were withdrawn early 70s I think - one was to end up as a laboratory car for the APT project while the other to the best of my knowledge still runs round as a General Manager's Saloon or whatever they might call it these days. The Laboratory car came back to Marina Depot as a long term project to return it to it's original function - but it never happened and that coach is now elsewhere.

The Hastings fleet was frequently remarshalled - to form the 1201-1206 Tadpole fleet for the Tonbridge Reading service. I remember we would get those into Marina around 01.00 - frequently had new brake blocks fitted - and away again at 04.00. The engines were upgraded to 600 HP and when 1002-1004 were put back together again when the Tadpoles were finished with, 1002 ran round as a five car with 1200 HP - a real little greyhound she was!

Hither Green in 67 obviously resulted in a lot of remarshalling with 1007 and 1017 the units involved. The driver involved in that awful accident ended up shunting at Marina and was still there when I started in 77.

1032 was always an interesting unit - and my favourite. I recall finding her up on the fuel point one evening when I got in for my night shift - just back from an extensive and top quality over haul at Swindon. That unit had three first class trailers in it - two of which were downgraded to second class. They would've been a lot more comfortable than what is on offer in much more modern trains' 1st class accomodation.

1011 - another interesting one - she was retained in four car formation for the Hastings Ashford service - how Southern could do with a four car or two for that route today! 1011 is pictured at Folkestone Harbour for those who feel wistful at the demise of that branch. Next to the Sealink Ferry Horsa no less - another blast from the past.

Finally - having delved through my old prints - I found one of the Laboratory coach in Marina Depot plus another of the GM Saloon on a visit to Tunbridge Wells. They are reproduced here.

Those photos are good. I like the one at Folkestone Harbour with the Sealink ferry Horsa. I used to do a lot of the "Go French" Day trips that Sealink, BR/NSE and Seaspead Hovercraft used to do in the 1970s and early 1980s, they were very good and you could combine it and go out on the Hovercraft and back by ship if you wanted to. I went on the Hengest vessel quite a lot which was a good one. I do seem to recall that some of the ferries used from Dover to Oostende seemed quite old. These trips were good because you could go on the special boat trains as well as the regular services to Victoria and Charing Cross.

 

[yorksrob]

I‘ll never forget the sound and feel of the boat trains as they thundered through under the booking hall at Ashford.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

It looks like the HDL Unit may be doing rail tours in the Summer now, hope they get their problems sorted out soon, it's a shame that they have had to stop owing to problems with red tape etc. It would be great to have another trip with them soon.

 

[yorksrob]

Yes it's a shame. Pity South Eastern/Southern couldn't have rented it as a blockade buster to strengthen some of the Marshlink services (whilst the main line's out of action). Could have paid for some of the modifications.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

Yes it's a shame. Pity South Eastern/Southern couldn't have rented it as a blockade buster to strengthen some of the Marshlink services (whilst the main line's out of action). Could have paid for some of the modifications.

Yes that's true. I presume the HDL Unit just stays in it's depot when not in use for railtours. ? Maybe until they get these problems sorted out, it could be loaned / rented to some of the heritage railways as a "guest appearance"? as that too would bring in some further revenue for HDL. ?

 

[nomis1066]

Yes, I was on that trip too. We were meant to go along the line via Rye, but did not make it, at least they were able to solve the problem quite quickly unlike some incidents that have badly delayed some charter trains that I have been on.

Hope HDL can resume soon.
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In recent years, I have traveled in those motor carriages, I just walked through to the next carriages if I needed the loo. I presume further years back, perhaps extra power cars were coupled together on longer trains for extra traction and therefore there would not have been facilities, I guess alot of crossed legs would have been in evidence towards the end of a journey then.

Exactly - those two extra power cars were added for the Long Thin Drag tour only - and the access to loos was denied because of no corridor connection between units, and as power cars had no toilets, as you say there would've been a crossed leg or two.
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Yes that's true. I presume the HDL Unit just stays in it's depot when not in use for railtours. ? Maybe until they get these problems sorted out, it could be loaned / rented to some of the heritage railways as a "guest appearance"? as that too would bring in some further revenue for HDL. ?

I don't know if that's been looked at as an option. I just hope the problem can be sorted as I have severe withdrawal symptons now. The unit is indeed still in Marina depot and I caught a glimpse the other day as I went past on my way to work on a deadly dull 377.

 

[yorksrob]

I just hope the problem can be sorted as I have severe withdrawal symptons now.

Amen to that !

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

Exactly - those two extra power cars were added for the Long Thin Drag tour only - and the access to loos was denied because of no corridor connection between units, and as power cars had no toilets, as you say there would've been a crossed leg or two.
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I don't know if that's been looked at as an option. I just hope the problem can be sorted as I have severe withdrawal symptons now. The unit is indeed still in Marina depot and I caught a glimpse the other day as I went past on my way to work on a deadly dull 377.

Yes the so called modern units such as the one don't seem to have much character to them, I don't think they are as comfortable as the older trains and you can not always get an unobstructed view from the windows as there is often a panel in the way. The seats/windows are not always aligned very well. I guess it's so they can cram more passengers on board.

 

[D7666]

The irony of the Long Thin Drag tour - well over 700 mile round trip with the Hastings units in their twilight days and that 14 car train ran perfectly all day, 1011, 1032 and 1001 power cars if I recall.

Irony is not right.

As one of the organisers of The Long Thin Drag, I point out the only reason 1001 was on the train making it 14cars was exactly because SR engineers were genuinely concerned the units would not make it home if the train were just the advertised 12car with 4 motors.

The train was timed for 12car, and within normal timing constraints, but there was a serious concern that all day extended running, and considering the gradients, would cause something to fail.

The extra motors of 1001 were there not to add extra hp to the train per se, but to give 50% more power than needed by load sharing overall power from 4 motors to 6 motors.

Yes it all performed to spec., IIRC it was something like 2 min later departure and 3 min late arrival back, but nonetheless the train had significant failure risk, and it was M&EEs concern.

And an operating concern was failing somewhere oop norf - either failing completely or partially. The units were needed for Monday peak service without which there would be cancelations. If it were a failure where even one 6car lost both engines, the whole train could not get home, because one 6car cannot tractor another 6car over long distances, and the whole lot cannot be loco dragged back all the way as a passenger carrying railtour because there is no means to light the train. DEMU have no external ETH connections, and even if they did the only diesel locos loco that could supply 750 V was a 33.

Further, even the most minor technical failure could not be officially rectified with local staff because no artisans away from the SR were familiar with the type. As it happened, there were such staff travelling passenger on the tour, but this is not simple to allow staff to work when not on duty.

The ONLY place on the whole route where the train could be refuelled was Holbeck ... because (so I understood at the time) HST depot plant - the bit that attaches to the train - happened to be compatible with DEMUs.

And so on.

Believe me it was a minefield to organise.

It started as a SEG only idea. We went joint with HRT simply because the risks were so high we could not carry them ourselves if something did go wrong.

These are facts which we operated that train under.

Yes it all worked OK on the day, but do not assume all was perfect under the surface.


--
Nick

 

[yorksrob]

I wonder how many commuters that monday morning realised that their train had been on a jolly all the way to Carlisle the previous day

 

[nomis1066]

Irony is not right.

As one of the organisers of The Long Thin Drag, I point out the only reason 1001 was on the train making it 14cars was exactly because SR engineers were genuinely concerned the units would not make it home if the train were just the advertised 12car with 4 motors.

The train was timed for 12car, and within normal timing constraints, but there was a serious concern that all day extended running, and considering the gradients, would cause something to fail.

The extra motors of 1001 were there not to add extra hp to the train per se, but to give 50% more power than needed by load sharing overall power from 4 motors to 6 motors.

Yes it all performed to spec., IIRC it was something like 2 min later departure and 3 min late arrival back, but nonetheless the train had significant failure risk, and it was M&EEs concern.

And an operating concern was failing somewhere oop norf - either failing completely or partially. The units were needed for Monday peak service without which there would be cancelations. If it were a failure where even one 6car lost both engines, the whole train could not get home, because one 6car cannot tractor another 6car over long distances, and the whole lot cannot be loco dragged back all the way as a passenger carrying railtour because there is no means to light the train. DEMU have no external ETH connections, and even if they did the only diesel locos loco that could supply 750 V was a 33.

Further, even the most minor technical failure could not be officially rectified with local staff because no artisans away from the SR were familiar with the type. As it happened, there were such staff travelling passenger on the tour, but this is not simple to allow staff to work when not on duty.

The ONLY place on the whole route where the train could be refuelled was Holbeck ... because (so I understood at the time) HST depot plant - the bit that attaches to the train - happened to be compatible with DEMUs.

And so on.

Believe me it was a minefield to organise.

It started as a SEG only idea. We went joint with HRT simply because the risks were so high we could not carry them ourselves if something did go wrong.

These are facts which we operated that train under.

Yes it all worked OK on the day, but do not assume all was perfect under the surface.


--
Nick

Ouch - that told me then! I never supposed it was an easy tour to arrange for all sorts of reasons. You can argue about my use of the word "irony" with which I started my original post - but the day did go superbly as did the train. A credit to all concerned.

SS

PS - anyone on the tour recall our Travellers Fare man who performed as well as the train?

 

[Journeyman]

I've gone Southern Region Green with envy



Were these the ones which had had their buffet cars removed ?

I've always thought the units would have been good for cross country type services for a few years after the Hastings line electrification.

Biggest problem with them towards the end was really rampant corrosion because they were exposed to sea air a lot. Many vehicles were full of asbestos as well. That said, you probably could have done a CEP style refurb on them.

 

[yorksrob]

Biggest problem with them towards the end was really rampant corrosion because they were exposed to sea air a lot. Many vehicles were full of asbestos as well. That said, you probably could have done a CEP style refurb on them.

The short shed at St Leonards probably didn't help much.

Personally, I'd have thought a lighter CIG style refurb would have been better, as it would've retained the comfortable seating.

 

[gazthomas]

The Travellers Fayre guy is cool!

 

[nomis1066]

The Tadpole units consisted of a Hastings gauge motor coach and trailer together with an EPB driving trailer. Used for some years on the Reading - Tonbridge service.

I remember the tadpoles from all those years ago. I first encountered them at Marina Depot in 77 - they would turn up around 01.00 - frequently have new brake blocks fitted (we had skips full of old ones) and after a not very long stop in the cleaning shed, were away around 04.00.

I do recall when 1002 was reformed that it ran as a five car for a while and was noticeably quicker - I'm sure those engines from the old tadpoles were higher HP like the Oxteds and Hampshires??

 

[nomis1066]

Coming up 28 years since that memorable day on 11 May 1986. The DEMUs signed off their BR days with two fantastic tours in those last few weeks of service. I still keep ploughing through my prints from those days and scanning them onto the PC with reasonable results - so here's another selection from that day in May all those years ago.

Splitting the train at Aylesbury resulted in 1002 and 1032 chasing each other around the London Transport overground lines with some interesting photo opportunities!

The photo showing guard and driver in front of 1032 - driver was the late Johnny Baker and the guard was Jim Tayler who is enjoying his retirement - indeed I bumped into him at a Hastings United football match recently.

Those two were photographed at Charing Cross with Chris Dadswell who was a fitter at Marina and went onto Lovers Walk at Brighton from where he recently retired. Chris is actively involved to this day at Marina.

Little did we know that a couple of months later a meeting in Robin Peterson's sitting room in Tunbridge Wells about maybe saving a couple of carriages would end up with 15 vehicles preserved, numerous railtours (albeit with a hiccough lately in that respect!) and many new destinations reached on preserved lines.

Let's hope we will hear soon of the next Hastings tour.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

Good morning, I have just had an e-mail from HDL, they are doing a railtour to Crewe on Sat 12 July. Hopefully they have overcome the recent redtape problems that has caused them hassles in recent months. Have a look on their website for details. Rgds.

 

[Crawley Ben]

Good morning, I have just had an e-mail from HDL, they are doing a railtour to Crewe on Sat 12 July. Hopefully they have overcome the recent redtape problems that has caused them hassles in recent months. Have a look on their website for details. Rgds.

They have confirmed to me on Twitter this morning that the GSMR equipment that was needed has now been fitted so looks like the lack of tours with HD should be coming to an end. Welcome back!

Ben

 

[yorksrob]

Never been up the WCML in one before !

 

[GatwickDepress]

Pity I don't have the dosh available to do this, for I would absolutely love to! Nevertheless, on the day, I'll be standing on the platforms of Milton Keynes Central to take a few snaps. :P

 

[nomis1066]

Good morning, I have just had an e-mail from HDL, they are doing a railtour to Crewe on Sat 12 July. Hopefully they have overcome the recent redtape problems that has caused them hassles in recent months. Have a look on their website for details. Rgds.

And less than a fortnight later, the tour has virtually sold out. Fantastic to get back out on the main line again.

 

[QJ]

Fantastic that the tour is a virtual sell out. That may augur well for future main line running to destinations over routes with a destination of more interest to me than a straight trundle to Crewe and back. Good job others are more amenable than me to the idea of a couple of hours in Crewe.

I used to travel on the 6B units on the summer saturday service from Brighton to Exeter. It would be nice to experience similar once again - or perhaps a rerun of the Long Thin Drag. Would the LTD be feasible today?

 

[yorksrob]

Fantastic that the tour is a virtual sell out. That may augur well for future main line running to destinations over routes with a destination of more interest to me than a straight trundle to Crewe and back. Good job others are more amenable than me to the idea of a couple of hours in Crewe.

I used to travel on the 6B units on the summer saturday service from Brighton to Exeter. It would be nice to experience similar once again - or perhaps a rerun of the Long Thin Drag. Would the LTD be feasible today?

I think a lot of us would like it to do the Long Thin Drag ! It's a bit out of their range though as HDL look after some of those modern trains at St Leonards.

It does get out West sometimes though. Had a good journey to Minehead a few years back and one to Weston not so long ago. They used the GW main line as the singling of the South Western is a bit of an obstacle to tours !

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

And less than a fortnight later, the tour has virtually sold out. Fantastic to get back out on the main line again.

Yes it is good to see this tour so well supported and lets hope that they can do some more main line railtours again soon.