Headcode Criteria

[Deepgreen]

Apologies if covered elsewhere. What criteria are used to determine whether a working is decribed as "Express Passenger" or "Ordinary Passenger"? My question is prompted by the fact that different suburban services from Waterloo have different categorisations - e.g. Dorking trains are 1xxx series headcodes ("Express Passenger"), whereas Shepperton workings are 2xxx ("Ordinary Passenger"). The operation of each route is apparently effectively identical, so why the difference?
Thanks.

 

[bb21]

Not always, and not in the case of the Dorkings.

1Dxx (Epsom, Dorking) and 2Dxx (Epsom, Guildford) are both suburban services. They are used to differentiate different calling patterns, or at least in theory.

Similarly Class 9s are no longer exclusively for trains to be given the highest priority. They are used by signallers in Wessex to differentiate 10-car workings from 8-car workings, so that they do not accidentally get routed into short platforms at Waterloo.

 

[Deepgreen]

Not always, and not in the case of the Dorkings.

1Dxx (Epsom, Dorking) and 2Dxx (Epsom, Guildford) are both suburban services. They are used to differentiate different calling patterns, or at least in theory.

Similarly Class 9s are no longer exclusively for trains to be given the highest priority. They are used by signallers in Wessex to differentiate 10-car workings from 8-car workings, so that they do not accidentally get routed into short platforms at Waterloo.

Thanks. Looking at RTT, 1Dxxs are described as "Express Passenger" and 2Dxxs as "Ordinary Passenger". I was curious as to what sets them apart on the same routes and same type type of workings; i.e. both 'suburban' workings but with different descriptions.

 

[bb21]

Traditionally these are the descriptions for Class 1s and 2s. These days on the whole they still broadly hold, although there are a few local variations.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

9xxx is used by Virgin for Euston-Scotland services routed via Birmingham, to distinguish them from the 1xxx services routed via the Trent Valley.

 

[swt_passenger]

Thanks. Looking at RTT, 1Dxxs are described as "Express Passenger" and 2Dxxs as "Ordinary Passenger". I was curious as to what sets them apart on the same routes and same type type of workings; i.e. both 'suburban' workings but with different descriptions.

On a number of SWT routes, class 1 and 2 just differentiate slightly different but relatively faster and slower calling patterns. It isn't necessarily logical when compared across the board, and there are contradictory examples.

EG the Waterloo to Poole semi-fast (aka the Poole stopper) is a class 2 as opposed to the 'faster' class 1 Waterloo - Weymouths, but the Waterloo to Portsmouth via Eastleigh, which has a very similar calling pattern to the Poole stopper, (providing the half hourly service to Eastleigh) runs as a class 1.

Clearly a class 2 Waterloo to Poole service is more of an express than a class 1 to Dorking. I'd assume on SWT it is nowadays just used to help prioritise services within their overlapping route areas.

 

[FGW_DID]

I was taught its the stopping pattern of the service that dictates between a Class 1 and Class 2.

Using an example from my part of the network - two turbos both working London Paddington - Oxford:

1. Calls, Slough, Reading, Oxford = Class 1 (Express Passenger)
2. Calls all shacks to Oxford = Class 2 (Ordinary Passenger)

What I don't know is the line were one would become the other

 

[SeanG]

I was taught its the stopping pattern of the service that dictates between a Class 1 and Class 2.

Using an example from my part of the network - two turbos both working London Paddington - Oxford:

1. Calls, Slough, Reading, Oxford = Class 1 (Express Passenger)
2. Calls all shacks to Oxford = Class 2 (Ordinary Passenger)

What I don't know is the line were one would become the other

What about "express" services that become "ordinary services"? Blackpool N - York springs to mind

 

[FGW_DID]

What about "express" services that become "ordinary services"? Blackpool N - York springs to mind

Possibly the head code would change to reflect that??

 

[MrB]

Similarly Class 9s are no longer exclusively for trains to be given the highest priority. They are used by signallers in Wessex to differentiate 10-car workings from 8-car workings, so that they do not accidentally get routed into short platforms at Waterloo.

I think class 9 is also used for some London Overground workings.

 

[DasLunatic]

On my local line, the 1 headcode simply refers to trains not stopping in any of the London suburban stations (except Stratford). All other services on the GEML and its branches gets a 2 headcode.

 

[tsr]

On Southern services it's often not so much about the calling pattern in the inner zones as the pattern in the outer ones.

Eg. A 1C service from London to the South Coast, via Crawley (hence the C - first principal station on diverging route) and Horsham, is likely to be running Victoria - Clapham Jn - E Croydon [- Redhill] - Gatwick Apt - etc. A 2C service will also run Victoria - Clapham Jn - E Croydon but will often then call at Purley, Coulsdon South and Merstham before Redhill, ie. when it heads over the Zone 6 boundary.

If you're not in the zones, eg. along the South Coast, it's usually just about skip-stopping etc.

 

[Philip Elliott]

9xxx is used by Virgin for Euston-Scotland services routed via Birmingham, to distinguish them from the 1xxx services routed via the Trent Valley.

Not the case for the 9Gs....NR were worried about confusion with the LM Shrewsbury to Birmingham services.

 

[bb21]

I think class 9 is also used for some London Overground workings.

They are, on the ELL, but they don't fall under the remit of Wessex.

In any case, I didn't intend to provide an exhaustive list, as that would be quite long. It was only meant as an example of a local arrangement.

 

[MrB]

They are, on the ELL, but they don't fall under the remit of Wessex.

In any case, I didn't intend to provide an exhaustive list, as that would be quite long. It was only meant as an example of a local arrangement.

I know, just adding to the information you'd given.

 

[jfollows]

So a week ago I was on the Derby-Crewe service, http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C61832/2016/04/26/advanced, what possible logic is there of this being 1K17 rather than 2K17? It stops at every station, bar one, that it passes through. It's hard to see why it should have "priority" over other Class 2 services along its route, not that there are many.

I suggest there is little logic. Possibly a (historic?) local reason. It certainly didn't feel like an Express Passenger train, I must say!

 

[Tomnick]

So a week ago I was on the Derby-Crewe service, http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C61832/2016/04/26/advanced, what possible logic is there of this being 1K17 rather than 2K17? It stops at every station, bar one, that it passes through. It's hard to see why it should have "priority" over other Class 2 services along its route, not that there are many.

I suggest there is little logic. Possibly a (historic?) local reason. It certainly didn't feel like an Express Passenger train, I must say!

I've often wondered about this one, and no-one's given me a meaningful answer. It's certainly not anything historical though - it's a relatively recent chance, in the last few years certainly.

 

[LBSCR Times]

If you're not in the zones, eg. along the South Coast, it's usually just about skip-stopping etc.

Not consistent though....
2Nxx are the Brighton to Portsmouth semi's, which as do not stop at West Worthing, Durrington and Goring, whilst the 1Nxx are the Brighton to Southampton semi's, which do!

Then there are the Thameslink services, where the 1Wxx stop all stations between Haywards Heath and Brighton.
There is also the odd Class 1 on the Loop, but that is more to do with stopping patterns on the northern part of the route.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I've often wondered about this one, and no-one's given me a meaningful answer. It's certainly not anything historical though - it's a relatively recent chance, in the last few years certainly.

Possibly conflicts with 2Kxx at Stoke?

 

[OuterDistant]

So a week ago I was on the Derby-Crewe service, http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C61832/2016/04/26/advanced, what possible logic is there of this being 1K17 rather than 2K17? It stops at every station, bar one, that it passes through. It's hard to see why it should have "priority" over other Class 2 services along its route, not that there are many.

That's probably it, although the only thing I can think of would be to make sure it gets priority over the hourly Stoke/Manchester stoppers, which are mostly empty at that end of their journey. I used to see the 323 regularly having to wait for the Crewe-bound Dogbox to pass before being allowed into platform 3 at Stoke (I used to have an office window overlooking the track!)

It could also make sure that a Derby-bound Dogbox gets priority over the junction at Kidsgrove if it was a few minutes down.

 

[Sunset route]

In the land of the Brighton main line the distinction between class 1 and class 2 has progressively got blurred as the train service has increased to the point where identical calling patterns other than final destination maybe class 1 or 2 to aid in routing, where trains can be class 1 in one direction and class 2 travelling back in the opposite direction, think Arun Valley Bognor Regis services or London to Reigate services. We have class 2 express services and class 1 stopping services. Not to mention the class 9s on the East London Line. The whole tt needs to be looked at and tidied up which will probably come when the tie in the Great Northern network to the south of the Thames.

 

[Peter749]

What about "express" services that become "ordinary services"? Blackpool N - York springs to mind

Trains don't change headcode enroute as it would become a new train except where a train couples to another as a portion.
The Blackpool - York service runs as a Class 1 train throughout.

Peter

 

[edwin_m]

Trains don't change headcode enroute as it would become a new train except where a train couples to another as a portion.
The Blackpool - York service runs as a Class 1 train throughout.

It does change headcode if it becomes or ceases to be empty stock. The ECS headcode is generally (I'm sure there are exceptions) the same as the main one but with the first digit replaced by a 5.

 

[Peter749]

It does change headcode if it becomes or ceases to be empty stock. The ECS headcode is generally (I'm sure there are exceptions) the same as the main one but with the first digit replaced by a 5.

Well obviously :roll:

Same as when the train reaches it's destination it's headcode changes for the next working.

Peter

 

[ComUtoR]

Trains don't change headcode enroute as it would become a new train except where a train couples to another as a portion.

We have some that do. They go down from london then back up again without changing ends as they go round a loop/spur. A few change on the up route and others stay the same throughout.

I have no idea what determines which services keep their headcode and which change.

 

[Peter749]

So a week ago I was on the Derby-Crewe service, http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C61832/2016/04/26/advanced, what possible logic is there of this being 1K17 rather than 2K17? It stops at every station, bar one, that it passes through. It's hard to see why it should have "priority" over other Class 2 services along its route, not that there are many.

I suggest there is little logic. Possibly a (historic?) local reason. It certainly didn't feel like an Express Passenger train, I must say!

Sometimes trains run as a class 1 to indicate the train should have priority over a Class 2 service where a conflict might occur.

Peter

 

[Sunset route]

Sometimes trains run as a class 1 to indicate the train should have priority over a Class 2 service where a conflict might occur.

Peter

That doesn't make much difference the nearer you get to London, they have their slot and sometimes it's class 1s ahead of class 2s and other times it's the class 2s that have priority at the junction and the class 1s have waiting time added to get the class 2s accross and ahead of them.

There isn't class 1,2 (or 9) anymore in the sense that it used to be, just PPM.

 

[Peter749]

We have some that do. They go down from london then back up again without changing ends as they go round a loop/spur.

Do you have any examples?

The only circular services I know of are those on the Liverpool Loop where the trains have the same headcode from start to finish - like Chester to Chester.
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/LVJ/2016/04/30/0839

Peter
EDIT

Having looked at Teddington the services around the loop continue with the same headcode.
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/TED/2016/04/27/0900?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

 

[ComUtoR]

There isn't class 1,2 (or 9) anymore in the sense that it used to be, just PPM.

Ooooooh regulation..

May I ask if you guys consider what happens further down the line when you regulate ?

I generally don't have an issue when a fast goes whizzing past and I'm being held. They should clear much faster than me anyway so by my first booked stop they are usually gone and forgotten.

Some days you get a stopper put in front or one that sits in front till they clear a junction further down and the Sig doesn't flip you over on to the fast to nip in front ?

Is there any Signaller jiggery pokery or magic computer program that helps you guys regulate ?

Ta as always.

Do you have any examples?

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/W05782/2016/04/28/advanced

2E27 0744 Cannon Street
2E27 0838 Barnehurst (arrival)
2C21 0839 Barnehurst (departure)
2C21 0918 Cannon Street

It switches headcode at Barnehurst

Unlike the 2O and 2I that run Cannon St <> Cannon St via Sidcup/Greenwich without changing headcodes. Why its different I have no idea but I suspect that its because of the routing indication (I/O/E/C) for the Signaller to send them in the right direction.

I think there is another one that we do as well but I cant remember it off my head. (new example added)

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/W03672/2016/04/28/advanced
2M switches to 2B at Slade Green

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/W03660/2016/04/28/advanced
2M switches to 2D at Crayford

I think the only ones that don't change are the Oscars and Indias

 

[Sunset route]

Ooooooh regulation..

May I ask if you guys consider what happens further down the line when you regulate ?

Some signallers will others won't, some aspects rely on if your passed out for the neighbouring Panel/Workstation or Signalbox to actually know what happens further along the line. Our simplifiers only show the regulating points for only the panel concerned. So a lot of the time no we some know what happens further along so don't regulate with that in mind. I've often reversed what my colleagues have done as what was right for their bit of railway would often crippled my part if the trains were left in the order that they were given.

 

[ComUtoR]

I've often reversed what my colleagues have done as what was right for their bit of railway would of crippled my part if the trains were left in the order that they were given.

I've seen the Automatic Route Setting reverse the effort the Signaller made for me once

Cheers for the reply.