Heart of Wales line future services

[Markdvdman]

The line is poorly served due to severe lack of services and the timetable changes restricted further. I can add no more to what has been said but using it from Swansea to Llandybie is almost never on time!

Anyway the Swansea 9 Lines project looks interesting. I do not know how likely it is to get off the ground but google it and the first item is a pdf.

 

[swcovas]

Lots of interesting comments since my original post. However, going back to that post I still wonder what the £150,000 is being used for. As I believe someone posted it will a shame if it's spent on yet another "consultancy" which is going to tell us what we already know. This was all done before in 2010 (check out Jacobs Consultancy Heart of Wales line which came made interesting reading and came up with alternative tts). Maybe, just maybe, something radical will come from the new franchising proposals although as many have commented there are so many constraints in operating the line that any radical change may not be practical.

 

[70014IronDuke]

....

The 18:21 service from Swansea waits for 25 minutes at Llanwrtyd and for a further 17 minutes at Llandrindod.
....

the 17 min wait at Landrindod is puzzling. Could it be for a freight path, which needs priority to clear the southern end before some signal closure for the night?

If you could add a 17.20 train out of Swansea, you could perhaps retim the 18.21 by 10 or12 mins later to reduce that lengthy wait at Llanwrtyd (still need time to pass and change crews, of course. )

 

[70014IronDuke]

.... Maybe, just maybe, something radical will come from the new franchising proposals although as many have commented there are so many constraints in operating the line that any radical change may not be practical.

If you could get the units and crews, I'm sure you could get an extra three trains in at both the Swansea (working Swansea - Llandeilo or Llandovery shuttles) and Shrewsbury ends (ditto to Landrindod, with perhaps one to Llanwrtyd) in a day. Whether the extra passengers attracted would pay for the extra cost is another matter.

Question: Does the signalling allow for trains to be terminated and turned within a single line section?

ie could you run a Swansea - Ammanford service, and then turn it back to Swansea, of must the unit continue in the same direction to the next loop, ie in this case Llandeilo?

 

[berneyarms]

the 17 min wait at Landrindod is puzzling. Could it be for a freight path, which needs priority to clear the southern end before some signal closure for the night?

If you could add a 17.20 train out of Swansea, you could perhaps retim the 18.21 by 10 or12 mins later to reduce that lengthy wait at Llanwrtyd (still need time to pass and change crews, of course. )

The train waits at Llandrindod I would assume as it's more palatable than Knighton for the crew.

It would clash with a freight path between Craven Arms and Shrewsbury otherwise.

The 18:21 can't go much later as there's another train behind it on the mainline out of Swansea and a train from Pembroke Dock coming through Llanelli shortly after it too.

 

[craigybagel]

Question: Does the signalling allow for trains to be terminated and turned within a single line section?

ie could you run a Swansea - Ammanford service, and then turn it back to Swansea, of must the unit continue in the same direction to the next loop, ie in this case Llandeilo?

No reason why it shouldn't, and trains regularly turn around mid section at Broome when there is engineering work on the mainline.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

No reason why it shouldn't, and trains regularly turn around mid section at Broome when there is engineering work on the mainline.

Exactly - a simple matter of rewriting the box instructions at Pantyffynon.

There is however a very good bus service from Ammanford to Swansea - up to 4 an hour , so the train has some competition (the bus obviously hits the congestion in from Fforestfach - and the train has the tedious reversal at Llanelli)

 

[Parallel]

I did read on journeycheck in the last couple of weeks or so that a train terminated at Cynghordy (can't remember the reason now though. ) No idea if it ran ECS northbound or returned southbound, and as mentioned, trains terminate at Broome occasionally due to engineering work.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Exactly - a simple matter of rewriting the box instructions at Pantyffynon.

There is however a very good bus service from Ammanford to Swansea - up to 4 an hour , so the train has some competition (the bus obviously hits the congestion in from Fforestfach - and the train has the tedious reversal at Llanelli)

Regrettably Swansea Victoria to Ponturdulais and up to Ammanford would probably comfortably support a well used hourly service with some peak hour extensions to Llandeilo/Llandovery.

 

[70014IronDuke]

No reason why it shouldn't, and trains regularly turn around mid section at Broome when there is engineering work on the mainline.

Good. I mean, it make sense, but with all these 'scrimping', cost-cutting moves, you never know what they'll do to shave pennies off fixed asset schemes.

 

[70014IronDuke]

Exactly - a simple matter of rewriting the box instructions at Pantyffynon.

There is however a very good bus service from Ammanford to Swansea - up to 4 an hour , so the train has some competition (the bus obviously hits the congestion in from Fforestfach - and the train has the tedious reversal at Llanelli)

Indeed. And that's a pretty competitive bus service, for sure. It's just that, if you had another unit and crew for a shuttle at the southern end, it might sometimes be better to terminate a working at Ammanford (eg a train from the north were scheduled into Llandeilo not much later than the shuttle could arrive from the south). It just allows more flexibility if such a move is possible.

Ditto, possibly, at the northern end. It might make sense, for example, to run a short evening shuttle to, say, Knucklas, and then back to Shrewsbury, depending on the timings. It's all a bit fantasy land, of course, given the actual situation regarding stock.

 

[craigybagel]

Indeed. And that's a pretty competitive bus service, for sure. It's just that, if you had another unit and crew for a shuttle at the southern end, it might sometimes be better to terminate a working at Ammanford (eg a train from the north were scheduled into Llandeilo not much later than the shuttle could arrive from the south). It just allows more flexibility if such a move is possible.

Ditto, possibly, at the northern end. It might make sense, for example, to run a short evening shuttle to, say, Knucklas, and then back to Shrewsbury, depending on the timings. It's all a bit fantasy land, of course, given the actual situation regarding stock.

To be fair, if you want an evening service to be used, and you're going to Knucklas you might as well keep going all the way to Llandod, that's by far the biggest point. I would expect it to be well worth the extra hour on a roundtrip.

 

[nanstallon]

If all the money spent on consultant's reports was spent on actual improvements, this country might get somewhere. If I've been a good boy during my life, I might come back as a consultant!

 

[70014IronDuke]

To be fair, if you want an evening service to be used, and you're going to Knucklas you might as well keep going all the way to Llandod, that's by far the biggest point. I would expect it to be well worth the extra hour on a roundtrip.

Fully agree in most scenarios. Llandod is, of course, the most-used station on the line (near 40k passengers last ORR year). But, I could imagine a situation where, either due to shift or stock limitations, or perhaps because of a working the other way, it might be considered worthwhile running a short Shrewsbury-Knighton shuttle at, say, 16.30 or 17.00, and, if timings allowed it, going onto Knucklas. While not a huge traffic generator, it does average 4,500 pax a year and does have a 'proper' local population - unlike many of the halts with fewer than 1,500 pax a year. (I mean, we are talking of stations with fewer than 2 on and 2 off per day. Even the current service is a luxury for such numbers.) Knucklas, by comparison, is generating 12-14 pax a day, six or seven on and off - hardly Waterloo levels, but still

It is a bit unlikely, but not impossible scenario, I'd suggest.

 

[Jez]

I think there should at least be a late evening service at both ends - Swansea-Llandeilo or even Llandovery and Shrewsbury to Knighton. Surely late at night stock could be found at either end of the line to run a service, some sets will have finished their days work. even if a 175 was to used. The current 6pm ish journeys at both ends are far too early for the last service.

If it was timed right they could even run the return journey back to Cardiff and have a later Swansea-Cardiff service, currently the last train to Cardiff from Swansea is around 10.30pm Monday-Friday and around 10.20pm on Saturdays.

 

[70014IronDuke]

I think there should at least be a late evening service at both ends - Swansea-Llandeilo or even Llandovery and Shrewsbury to Knighton. Surely late at night stock could be found at either end of the line to run a service, some sets will have finished their days work. even if a 175 was to used. The current 6pm ish journeys at both ends are far too early for the last service.

How late is late? If you depart at 21.00-ish, you will end up meeting the last train in the opposite direction. If you depart at 22.00-ish, won't you end up with more expensive crewing costs - as the unit will not get back to Swansea or Shrewsbury until c 00.30.

I suppose it would be a nice-to-have, but first and foremost, a late afternoon service from both endis a must if you are going to attract more pax to the line IMO.

EDIT: delete - I see you are talking about an even later service. Mind you, I suspect the 22.30 service is a bit rough at times - not sure as i'd fancy being the guard doing ticket checks on anything later on that line -Swansea can be a rough place - I think it is the only place I've been threatened on the street in the UK (and that was v close to High Street station!)

 

[craigybagel]

I think there should at least be a late evening service at both ends - Swansea-Llandeilo or even Llandovery and Shrewsbury to Knighton. Surely late at night stock could be found at either end of the line to run a service, some sets will have finished their days work. even if a 175 was to used. The current 6pm ish journeys at both ends are far too early for the last service.

You'd be surprised. The earliest unit finishing up for the night at Shrewsbury arrives at 20:14, but it's a 158 which at present aren't allowed down the Heart of Wales. After that the next one one is 22:54! It's not like units are withdrawn from service early in the evening, most of them are out 18 or more hours per day - and if they're not out, they're being worked on, not just sitting in a siding spare.

 

[Parallel]

Does anyone know which platforms are issue with the Class 158s on the HOWL?