Heaton Derailment 22/03/22

[800001]

Should we expect continuing disruption to services or will they be able to work around it?

LNER wise, normal timetable, including from Newcastle tomorrow, can’t speak for Northern, TPE, Grand Central.

LNER have a few alterations this evening to stable a couple of units else where, and one set will stable overnight at Newcastle.

 

[Ex-controller]

An excellent example of cross industry cooperation - we need more of this.

Indeed. Cross Country very amenable to this sort of move in my experience.

 

[43096]

Exactly!! 30 days to build one carriage, 30 days to test!

But, seriously, there is a load of there shells still in storage on Humberside, worst case scenario Aycliffe now has the welding section so may also be capable of building a new carriage.

They could even build it without any cracks.

 

[Peter Sarf]

From what I can tell, not knowing the depot, there is no access to the train on the depot site and the only option I can see being potentially feasible, would be to use cranes from the adjacent wasteland which is on the other side of the metro lines. Quite a major job to be truthful.

https://www.railforums.co.uk/attachments/screenshot_20220322-164134_maps-jpg.111876/

Now looking at the above photo (part of @bengley 's post) It seem to me that this is not a through siding. And we can see diverging points near its entrance. Coupled with the damage on the ground for one coach length beyond the derailed train I think it is obvious that the derailed coach was at the rear of the train as it entered the dead end siding and possibly derailment caused by the diverging points moving under the train.

 

[Robertj21a]

Surely, it's a bit OTT to consider writing off that carriage because of the damage from a derailment?. Unless it's much cheaper than I'm guessing, a (difficult) recovery plus repair must be more likely?

 

[dk1]

These things happen on depots although not so much nowadays. Always looks worse when it’s an expensive shiny new train.

 

[GB]

These things happen on depots although not so much nowadays. Always looks worse when it’s an expensive shiny new train.

Ironically very similar thing happened at Cambridge this afternoon.

 

[High Dyke]

And currently preceding the Chronicle video is an ad for TPE!

Perhaps they should use the tag-line. Go off the beaten track with TPE.

As someone has said, these things happen. Though when it's a newer train people do tend to notice more. During the Central Trains era a driver hit the stops at the end of the head-shunt on Nottingham Eastcroft with a Cl.170.

 

[dk1]

Ironically very similar thing happened at Cambridge this afternoon.

No way. Not on the new wash road?? I’m covering locals for a few weeks with a newbie so not getting across the Fens.

 

[GB]

No way. Not on the new wash road?? I’m covering locals for a few weeks with a newbie so not getting across the Fens.

Leaving carriage sidings number 12 if that means anything to you. A fair bit of points and track damage.

 

[dk1]

Leaving carriage sidings number 12 if that means anything to you. A fair bit of points and track damage.

Oh bloody hell. We don’t sign any of the sidings but have a rough idea.

 

[mjmason1996]

If it was the front there wouldn’t be all that damage infront of it.

I agree that the derailment happened at the rear.

Looking at the direction the wall/railing has been pushed over, and the kink in the next rails along, it looks like the rearmost bogie took the straight route, for whatever reason, at the points further back while the rest of the train went right. The rear bogie was probably pulled from the tracks at the kink as it was dragged back into line by the rest of the train (or smashing into the wall/railing) before coming to rest straddling the wall

 

[Efini92]

I agree that the derailment happened at the rear.

Looking at the direction the wall/railing has been pushed over, and the kink in the next rails along, it looks like the rearmost bogie took the straight route, for whatever reason, at the points further back while the rest of the train went right. The rear bogie was probably pulled from the tracks at the kink as it was dragged back into line by the rest of the train (or smashing into the wall/railing) before coming to rest straddling the wall

I’m not sure who controls the points or the signals. If it’s done on depot it’s possible the points were moved after the the front of the train had already passed over it.

 

[ainsworth74]

They could even build it without any cracks.

Now now let's not be silly

 

[PG]

I would suggest at that time of the morning it was tired and wanted a lie down...

This cheered me up, thanks

With the Production line at Hitachi’s Merchant Park facility still building the 80x Series if unit, it would be a possibility that they could build 1 carriage for this unit.

Fast forward a few years to when the 80x series is out of production, what will happen should another unit sustain similar damage?

 

[Signal_Box]

Well I'm sure your unfortunate colleague is very pleased with you sharing that...

Indeed I’ve reported the post.

Unlikely, as it wasn't on the public part of the railway, and was confined to the depot

RAIB can and do investigate depot and yard incidents where injury or significant damage has occurred of lessons can be learnt.

Latest I've heard is due to the expense of a re-railing job, one of the options being considered is to cut up and scrap the derailed coach on site.

Zero chance, expensive job but no chance of scrapping.

 

[Spartacus]

Well I'm sure your unfortunate colleague is very pleased with you sharing that...

Indeed I’ve reported the post.

A lot of staff would perhaps rather the facts as they are known come out rather than endless idle speculation.

RAIB can and do investigate depot and yard incidents where injury or significant damage has occurred of lessons can be learnt.

The RAIB have so far declined to attend, though if something else presents itself that could still change.

Zero chance, expensive job but no chance of scrapping.

Loss adjusters have already, I believe, visited Heaton. Cutting up on site is a distinct possibility, though the preferred option IS to recover it.

 

[GB]

Zero chance, expensive job but no chance of scrapping.

Scrapping is always a possibility if conditions are met. Now this particular incident might not have came to it in the end but it was a real avenue they explored with the involvement of the insurance company and loss adjuster.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Scrapping is always a possibility if conditions are met. Now this particular incident might not have came to it in the end but it was a real avenue they explored with the involvement of the insurance company and loss adjuster.

Perhaps it was just one of the obvious options that it would be foolish not to explore ?.

 

[Dave W]

Aside from the time element, in light of how new the vehicle is, would consideration be given to dismantling rather than scrapping, to maximise component recovery?

Or is “cutting up” in this context exactly that?

(Edit: notwithstanding the above posts suggest they’re leaning towards recovering the vehicle)

 

[E16 Cyclist]

Well I'm sure your unfortunate colleague is very pleased with you sharing that...

Indeed I’ve reported the post.

Knowing how things work I’m sure it’s common knowledge around Newcastle who was involved and what happened so in some respects as long as the person involved isn’t identified online it’s probably better to share the basic facts to avoid speculation

 

[ainsworth74]

To answer my own question from earlier, at least around here, things do appear to be back to normal for the most part. Just had a quick scan through Newcastle on RTT and that also appears to be running pretty smoothly.

LNER wise, normal timetable, including from Newcastle tomorrow, can’t speak for Northern, TPE, Grand Central.

Thanks

 

[Driver068]

Aspiration for recovery is for the vehicle to be removed by road provided by cranes to attend site. Vehicle will be cut up on site then removed.
Costs of recovery expected to be high. Lost adjuster has attended site within last 24 hours

 

[Djminisite06]

https://www.railforums.co.uk/attachments/screenshot_20220322-164134_maps-jpg.111876/

Now looking at the above photo (part of @bengley 's post) It seem to me that this is not a through siding. And we can see diverging points near its entrance. Coupled with the damage on the ground for one coach length beyond the derailed train I think it is obvious that the derailed coach was at the rear of the train as it entered the dead end siding and possibly derailment caused by the diverging points moving under the train.\i

It's on the track on the metro side of the dead-end siding which is used to access that side of the depot

 

[800001]

Aspiration for recovery is for the vehicle to be removed by road provided by cranes to attend site. Vehicle will be cut up on site then removed.
Costs of recovery expected to be high. Lost adjuster has attended site within last 24 hours

Well, that’s differs from the conference call I’ve heard, where the cranes will be in position to recover the carriage on Friday.
No mention what so ever of cutting up on site.
Plan is recover unit, remove intact, then renew track, signalling etc.

 

[Driver068]

Well, that’s differs from the conference call I’ve heard, where the cranes will be in position to recover the carriage on Friday.
No mention what so ever of cutting up on site.
Plan is recover unit, remove intact, then renew track, signalling etc.

Just stating what I've heard from the depot - not claiming its confirmed or correct. Hence the wording Asperation

 

[DanNCL]

Well, that’s differs from the conference call I’ve heard, where the cranes will be in position to recover the carriage on Friday.
No mention what so ever of cutting up on site.
Plan is recover unit, remove intact, then renew track, signalling etc.

Just stating what I've heard from the depot - not claiming its confirmed or correct. Hence the wording Asperation

“Cut up” in this case possibly refers to simply being split into a couple of smaller sections for removal, rather than being completely dismantled on site which is the more common meaning of “cut up” on the railway.

I don’t know for sure what’s happening in this case, that was just a thought I had.

 

[Peter Sarf]

It's on the track on the metro side of the dead-end siding which is used to access that side of the depot

Ah so nearer the bottom of the picture than the red circle.

 

[swt_passenger]

I expect some have already seen it, but there’s a decent YouTube video that shows the track layout and height difference between the two lines quite well:

 

[XAM2175]

Just stating what I've heard from the depot - not claiming its confirmed or correct. Hence the wording Asperation

Aspiration: noun, a hope or ambition of achieving something; (eg: "the needs and aspirations of the people")

So when you post "aspiration for recovery is for the vehicle to be removed by road" you're effectively saying the same as if you'd posted "they hope that the vehicle can be removed by road", without saying anything at all about the source or accuracy of the statement.