Hereford to Bath Spa via Birmingham

[Techniquest]

Hi all,

It was discussed in the last couple of months that Hereford to Bristol is valid via Birmingham, as long as you entered via Smethwick and left via Bromsgrove (or vice-versa).

I have a need for such a routing this weekend and I have a few questions. I'd bring them up on the thread itself but I can't find it.

1) Does this also apply to a Hereford to Bath Spa ticket, an Off-Peak Day Return at that? I believe it had to be Any Permitted, which memory of that ticket suggests it is.

2) This weekend AXC are diverting via Kidderminster (same for LM extending Snow Hill line services that way to/from Hereford), due to engineering works on at Bromsgrove. Routing wise to Birmingham it gets me to change at Smethwick Galton Bridge for New Street. Fair enough and I'm happy with that, it means I get to have a 323 again. But since the Voyagers are also on diversions via Kidderminster to reach Abbotswood Junction and thus the normal route to Taunton, does this mean this ticket routing for Hereford to Bristol (preferably Bath for me) is technically invalid?

3) Finally, which maps do I need to show the valid routing? I just have this nagging feeling the TM on my trains of choice wouldn't know this valid routing, so I'm planning on taking the maps with me.

All help appreciated ladies and gents.

Thanks in advance,

Julian

 

[ian13]

1) It looks a valid route to me. Map CE is valid between Bath and Hereford routeing groups, and CE is valid via Birmingham (subject to the weird restrictions you highlighted). It doesn't seem to be a problem, and when you get to New St, just ask for directions to Snow Hill at barriers.

2) Engineering works shouldn't be a problem with regards to doubling back, as long as you are on a train which is normally scheduled to go on a valid route (so AXC voyagers between Bristol and Birmingham are valid, as they usually go via Brant Green, but you wouldn't be able to switch trains on the way to one which normally goes into Birmingham via Smethwick).

3) http://www.atoc.org/rsp/_downloads/Routeing_Guide/yellowpages/bath.htm and http://www.atoc.org/rsp/_downloads/Routeing_Guide/maps/map_ce.htm

 

[Techniquest]

Hello,

Thanks for that good Sir. Now I've looked at the map, the restrictions make sense more.

I couldn't see any reason why the diversions would affect the restrictions either, but it's one of those things you think about and go "Ah, umm, well...". Indeed, I was tossing and turning fussing over it last night, I'll sleep easy tonight now

Looking forward to this bash on Saturday now!

 

[ian13]

No problem! I even travelled on the B'ham tram myself (between Hawthorns and Snow Hill) on that ticket

 

[Mojo]

We discussed this a few months ago regarding going to Bristol and as said above, it's totally valid. Though maybe best to keep it quiet as it should save me a fortune!

If you are actually *going* to/from Hereford though (rather than ending/starting at BHM) you have to enter Birmingham via. Stourbridge (into Snow Hill) and leave via. Barnt Green (from New St)

 

[John @ home]

It was discussed in the last couple of months that Hereford to Bristol is valid via Birmingham, as long as you entered via Smethwick and left via Bromsgrove ... Does this also apply to a Hereford to Bath Spa ticket

Yes, map CE is valid for this journey and allows Hereford - Worcester - Smethwick - Birmingham - Barnt Green - Gloucester Group - (Newport or Yate) - Bristol - Bath.

I believe it had to be Any Permitted, which memory of that ticket suggests it is.

The only Hereford - Bath Spa tickets shown in NFM 01 are "Any Permitted".

2) This weekend AXC are diverting via Kidderminster ... does this mean this ticket routing for Hereford to Bristol (preferably Bath for me) is technically invalid?

Not necessarily. Section A Page 7 of the National Routeing Guide (NRG) contains the following:

"ENGINEERING WORK, DIVERSIONS AND SERVICE DISRUPTION

The Routeing Guide has been produced using the published rail timetable and fares manuals. It therefore takes into account all route variations allowed that have been notified. On occasions due to short notice engineering work and disruption, services may be diverted from their normal routes or customers asked to use alternative routes.

In these circumstances operators will make special provision to allow extra permitted routes. They will advise other operators and retailers of the extra provisions made to convey customers by routes other than those which are normally permitted. This provision will also apply to connecting services which are not directly affected.

Any through train diverted from its usual route will count as a permitted route between the stations it is normally scheduled to call at. This does not apply to additional stops on the diversionary route, unless specially advised or they are on the permitted route for the journey being made."

This would tend to suggest that these extra permitted routes over-ride the restrictions on doubling back. But here we can only give opinions on interpretations of the NRG. We can't give definitive rulings.

3) Finally, which maps do I need to show the valid routing?

As a minimum, I would take:
NRG Section A page 7, as above
NRG Section C page 401, which shows that permitted routes from Hereford to Bath Spa are by maps BD or CE
NRG Section D map CE

John

 

[Techniquest]

Thanks all.

I was looking forward to doing this trip, but unfortunately it happens to be the weekend of my eldest sister's birthday, and I have to go down tomorrow instead of having this trip.

Not that I mind. Not at all...:roll:

Now I've just got to squeeze it in somehow on next week's rover trip instead. But there we go, just another of those irritating things. Every time I plan a trip someone comes and ruins it...:-x

Anyway, I digress from the point I was going to make.

Thanks all again for the help, I'll ensure I print off the other bits (already printed map CE ready) before I do this trip.