Heritage electric railways

[AndyLandy]

So, we've had steam preservation railways for quite some time now, and running heritage diesels on those same lines seemed like the obvious next step. My question is "What about heritage electric trains?" There are plenty of them and I'd certainly love the opportunity to ride in a compartment of a 4VEP again, but hauling the units behind a diesel loco just doesn't seem right.

Of course, railways are dangerous enough without adding high voltage electric rails or overhead lines, so I've no idea if it would ever be practical to have a heritage electric railway. What do other folks think? Is there a market for it, and if so, would it even be possible to run one?

 

[Phil6219]

It would be possible to run one, the problem is that it would take a lot of work and encounter a lot of problems.

For instance, which line would be electrified? An existing preserved one, or constructing one from scratch - perhaps along a former route. Then there is the issue of the electrifying it, will they go for 3rd rail or overhead? AC or DC?

After that there is the case of the electricity itself, it will need to source a lot of power from the national grid and this will come at great expense. Yes they could just have their own generating station if it was a small set up but that would be cost prohibitive, so they would have to settle for using the national grid. A lot of electricity is lost through transmission so even having the wires (or rails) charged will run up a cost.

Finally there is the issue of appeal, yes classic electrics are appealing however a lot of preservation railways go for a specific era and whilst they dabble with locos from other eras a wholly electric railway will not look too convincing with a load of steam locos running around with their 86s...

That said I am all for the idea

Phil

 

[David Goddard]

I think that restoration of the Ardingly line would be an ideal candidate for a preserved electric operation. It is of decent enough length to run trains on, and should not require too much work, except of course to build a terminus point at Haywards Heath.
The station at Horsted Keynes is large enough for the EMUs to come and go quietly without spoiling the effect of the steam trains and vice/versa. Apart from maintenance work the two could operate quite independently of each other, yet complement one another to create what would be quite a unique preservation setup:
*Connections with the National Rail Network at two locations (East Grinstead and Haywards Heath
*Preserved steam trains
*Preserved electric trains in the heart of southern electric territory
In each case, one type of preserved railway also acts as a way of reaching the other so it cant really fail

 

[sprinterguy]

There are some clever potential alternatives to allow electric stock to operate on preserved lines without having to resort to laying lengthy sections of expensive, and potentially hazardous, OHL or third rail equipment. Third rail EMUs can be run reasonably authentically in conjunction with Motor Luggage Vans providing traction by running off battery power, and I'm sure that a "souped up" MLV with additional battery power could give quite a substantial range. The Stephenson Railway Museum on North Tyneside is currently working on allowing their Harton Railway electric loco to operate under its' own power in conjunction with a 20 tonne coal hopper converted to act as a battery pack. The AC Locomotive Group have got as far as being able to power up the cooling fans on one of their Roarers that gives the locos their nickname, and I am confident in the future that it would not be beyond the wit of man to convert, say, a mark 1 BG vehicle to act as a battery carriage to allow their locomotives to operate under their own power without having to resort to the use of overhead wires.

I think that the application of electrification to preserved railways in the obvious sense is limited. I think it more likely that a single line in the UK, I'm thinking potentially the Old Dalby test track if it ever falls out of use, would be electrified to act as an electric preserved railway, and electric traction would be concentrated there. Alternatively, if there are any preserved lines around the South East that already have or could possibly have in the future a short branch off the main route, then that shorter section could be electrified with third rail to allow Slammers to operate while the principal line remains worked by steam and diesel traction. The Ardingley line proposed by David above would be IMO an exceptionally good candidate for this sort of operation. I'd love to see that happen one day.

 

[LE Greys]

This comes up every now and then. I for one supported giving the Southern Electric Group access to the Lymington Branch, giving them somewhere to run their stock in nice surroundings and providing a useful service at the same time instead of yet another 450 interspersed with diesel operation. It used to be the best way to see the New Forest, by 3-CIG. Preserved overhead units would be harder to find somewhere for, but I like the idea of Old Dalby. Never had the chance to travel on a 309, despite seeing them many times. Something I really want to put right one day.

 

[Chris125]

Quite simply there isnt enough interest among enthusiasts, let alone the general public, to consider electrifying a line. If you've restored a unit or loco to operating condition it isnt much more expensive to get it on the mainline, a far more practical proposition than installing and maintaining all the neccesary AC or DC infrastructure needed - unfortunately most are lucky just to be kept in a condition suitable for loco haulage.

Chris

 

[Harbon 1]

I'm sure that if it is there, interest will start to spread. Also it would be expencive, but could they not employ an on/off switch to keep costs to a minimum?

 

[madannie77]

There are some clever potential alternatives to allow electric stock to operate on preserved lines without having to resort to laying lengthy sections of expensive, and potentially hazardous, OHL or third rail equipment. Third rail EMUs can be run reasonably authentically in conjunction with Motor Luggage Vans providing traction by running off battery power, and I'm sure that a "souped up" MLV with additional battery power could give quite a substantial range. The Stephenson Railway Museum on North Tyneside is currently working on allowing their Harton Railway electric loco to operate under its' own power in conjunction with a 20 tonne coal hopper converted to act as a battery pack. The AC Locomotive Group have got as far as being able to power up the cooling fans on one of their Roarers that gives the locos their nickname, and I am confident in the future that it would not be beyond the wit of man to convert, say, a mark 1 BG vehicle to act as a battery carriage to allow their locomotives to operate under their own power without having to resort to the use of overhead wires.

The Eden Valley Railway sometimes runs passenger trains using a pair of "souped-up" MLVs and a 4-CEP, usually for about one month per year. It is very quiet and very sedate.

 

[Yew]

Maybe instead of batteries, the leading carriage could have a diesel generator? In a similar way to steam special having a mk1 as a support coach?

 

[Tim R-T-C]

The Eden Valley Railway sometimes runs passenger trains using a pair of "souped-up" MLVs and a 4-CEP, usually for about one month per year. It is very quiet and very sedate.

It is a highly recommended ride if you get a chance:


Eden Valley Railway running by Tim R-T-C, on Flickr

I think this is ultimately the only way these sort of lines are going to operate, unless someone has a huge amount of money to spare building the electrification equipment. Unfortunately I am not sure how this would work with an OLE EMU or loco.

 

[4SRKT]

Quite simply there isnt enough interest among enthusiasts, let alone the general public, to consider electrifying a line. If you've restored a unit or loco to operating condition it isnt much more expensive to get it on the mainline, a far more practical proposition than installing and maintaining all the neccesary AC or DC infrastructure needed - unfortunately most are lucky just to be kept in a condition suitable for loco haulage.

Chris

Which is why something like the electrification of Ardingly makes a lot of sense. You're not relying on the electric traction being the sole [at]traction (sorry), but a complement to a trip to a steam railway. It's also a historically interesting piece of preservation, given that an electric branch line connecting into a non-electrified main line wasn't common.

Electrifying Ardingly also doesn't stop you running steam trains on busy days if that's what's required commercially. The EMU would become the equivalent of the KWVR operating their DRB at less busy times.

I'm not 100% convinced that an electric heritage railway couldn't succeed. Isle of Man anyone? Volk's Electric Railway?

 

[Chris125]

As many discussions over the years have concluded, there is no prospect of the Ardingly branch being electrified - the cost simply cant be
justified.

That is almost certainly going to remain the case, so the priority remains getting existing units undercover, maintained and hopefully made operational. If the choice was then to run them on the mainline or electrify a heritage line, i suspect the former would be far more achievable. There is a world of difference between running a tramway, and installing either a 750v third rail or 25kv OHLE on a heritage railway.

Chris

 

[JoeGJ1984]

I did a long thread on the above and given the presence of the National Tramway Museum in Crich and how they created an electrified tram line, I don't see why somewhere can't create an electrified railway line (with both 3rd rail and OHLE)- all the expenses and safety concerns would apply equally to an electrified tram line.

There is the Electric Railway Museum near Coventry. I hope they can get their stuff running. Electrifying an existing heritage railway would be very difficult, but I don't see why a new electric railway couldn't be created.

Re mainline running, the problem there is that most 1st generation EMUs are mark 1 based, with rules about them having to have a barrier vehicle. And tehn central door locking, etc. has to be installed.

 

[David Goddard]

Does anyone know what opinions the Southern Electric Group (or simialr organisations) has on this? Would they like to see an electrified heritage line?

 

[yorksrob]

I did a long thread on the above and given the presence of the National Tramway Museum in Crich and how they created an electrified tram line, I don't see why somewhere can't create an electrified railway line (with both 3rd rail and OHLE)- all the expenses and safety concerns would apply equally to an electrified tram line.

There is the Electric Railway Museum near Coventry. I hope they can get their stuff running. Electrifying an existing heritage railway would be very difficult, but I don't see why a new electric railway couldn't be created.

Re mainline running, the problem there is that most 1st generation EMUs are mark 1 based, with rules about them having to have a barrier vehicle. And tehn central door locking, etc. has to be installed.

As I've said before, there's no need for rolling stock used solely for railtours on the mainline to have central door locking. And as for the Mark 1 issue, a couple of restored MLV's to sandwich the slammer/s of your choice will sort this out nicely.

 

[AndyLandy]

What's the requirement for barrier vehicles? I thought they were only used if the vehicles were being hauled by something else.

 

[MK Tom]

Isn't there a really short stretch of third rail on the East Kent Railway? I had understood that there were plans to expand that...

 

[yorksrob]

What's the requirement for barrier vehicles? I thought they were only used if the vehicles were being hauled by something else.

Currently you need one on the other end in case something runs into it.

 

[jrhilton]

Also it would be expencive, but could they not employ an on/off switch to keep costs to a minimum?

One of biggest problems is someone will most likely come along and pinch all the cable if they know you switch it off. Other problems are the logistics of turning things on and off safely, the life of the equipment is reduced and you can never be 100% sure it will all turn on again without something going wrong. :roll:

 

[Bevan Price]

I'm sure that if it is there, interest will start to spread. Also it would be expencive, but could they not employ an on/off switch to keep costs to a minimum?

I agree with Chris125. Like it or not, the non-enthusiast visitor provides most of the receipts on heritage lines, and the vast majority of them are only interested in steam. Many heritage lines struggle to finance their continued existence. They are not going to spend a small fortune on electrification of even a short branch line, because they realise it will be a never-ending drain on their finances, and might make them bankrupt.