Holding train doors open - "criminal offence"??!?

[SideshowBob]

The guard on the train I'm currently on has made a tannoy announcement saying that it's a criminal offence for passengers to hold train doors open to allow latecomers they're travelling with to catch the train.

Is this for real??

I strongly suspect he's absolutely full of it but thought I'd see if anyone ITK on here could confirm or deny!

NB: The incident in question has nothing to do with me, I've not been accused of anything and haven't misused any train doors.

 

[EM2]

Railway Byelaws Section 11:
11. General safety
(1) No person shall move, operate, obstruct, stop or in any other way interfere with any automatic closing door, train, or any other equipment on the railway except:
(i) in an emergency, by means of any equipment on or near which there is a notice indicating that it is intended to be used in an emergency; or
(ii) any equipment intended for the use of passengers in that way in normal operating circumstances.

 

[Fare-Cop]

Correct, and an offence contrary to Byelaw 11 may be Summonsed to a Magistrates Court hearing, where, if convicted the following applies;

Byelaw 24 (1) Offence and level of fines

Any person who breaches any of these Byelaws commits an offence and, with the exception of Byelaw 17, may be liable for each such offence to a penalty not exceeding level 3 ( £1000 ) on the standard scale.

 

[rg177]

Technically, yes, it is, although I can't see any guard or driver pulling you up in any way other than an irritated tannoy announcement unless you do it for an unreasonably long time- i.e beyond a few seconds (in which case you'll probably be asked to step off) or render the train inoperable by damaging the doors.

If staff applied the letter of the law to every door getting held open, they wouldn't have a lot of time to do anything else.

 

[Fare-Cop]

Technically, yes, it is, although I can't see any guard or driver pulling you up in any way other than an irritated tannoy announcement unless you do it for an unreasonably long time- i.e beyond a few seconds (in which case you'll probably be asked to step off) or render the train inoperable by damaging the doors.

If staff applied the letter of the law to every door getting held open, they wouldn't have a lot of time to do anything else.

I agree, but the OP asked the question, "Is this for real?" and went on to say about the driver who made the announcement "I strongly suspect he's absolutely full of it" - He might be, but he's also right.

The answer given by EM2 was spot on.

 

[SideshowBob]

Railway Byelaws Section 11:
11. General safety
(1) No person shall move, operate, obstruct, stop or in any other way interfere with any automatic closing door, train, or any other equipment on the railway except:
(i) in an emergency, by means of any equipment on or near which there is a notice indicating that it is intended to be used in an emergency; or
(ii) any equipment intended for the use of passengers in that way in normal operating circumstances.

Section 11 of what?

Correct, and an offence contrary to Byelaw 11 may be Summonsed to a Magistrates Court hearing, where, if convicted the following applies;

Byelaw 24 (1) Offence and level of fines

Any person who breaches any of these Byelaws commits an offence and, with the exception of Byelaw 17, may be liable for each such offence to a penalty not exceeding level 3 ( £1000 ) on the standard scale.

Indeed - breaches of all Byelaws can be/are prosecuted in a magistrates' court and are punishable with a fine.

Always assuming that it would genuinely be in the public interest to do so and that most train guards would be officious enough to bother calling the cops over something like this, and that the cops, in turn, would even think about bothering to turn up and deal with it!

Technically, yes, it is, although I can't see any guard or driver pulling you up in any way other than an irritated tannoy announcement unless you do it for an unreasonably long time- i.e beyond a few seconds (in which case you'll probably be asked to step off) or render the train inoperable by damaging the doors.

If staff applied the letter of the law to every door getting held open, they wouldn't have a lot of time to do anything else.

Quite. One would hope not, but you never know! The railway seems to be crammed with amateur police officers and officious sadsacks with absolutely no street wisdom or ability to prioritise! Which is a pity, but there it is.

 

[EM2]

Section 11 of what?

Well, of the Railway Byelaws (as you quoted)

 

[SideshowBob]

I agree, but the OP asked the question, "Is this for real?" and went on to say about the driver who made the announcement "I strongly suspect he's absolutely full of it" - He might be, but he's also right.

The answer given by EM2 was spot on.

Maybe. But it's hard to have any respect for people who talk and behave so officiously.

I mean, I might have more respect for this guy if, having made this announcement, he'd come through the train to do at least one full ticket check. But he hasn't. On a train that's not even close to full and standing, with quite lengthy intervals between stations.

Maybe he needs to sort his priorities out and just get on with his work. Maybe have a word with the passenger concerned. But not come on the tannoy to demonstrate to everyone on the train that he's just an officious sadsack who's going to annoy the wrong person one of these days.

 

[Bensonby]

I’m a police officer (not amateur, nor British Transport Police) and I’ve used the railway byelaws. Yes, it’s often not proportionate to invoke them but it is sometimes. They are a useful tool in the box.

 

[SideshowBob]

Well, of the Railway Byelaws (as you quoted)

I didnt quote anything. Just asked, in a state of some incredulity, whether this guy was telling the truth about this being a criminal offence.

 

[Bensonby]

Wait until you find out that getting on the train before people have alighted is an offence! (Byelaw 10)

 

[SideshowBob]

Wait until you find out that getting on the train before people have alighted is an offence! (Byelaw 10)

I think I just have. Again, not 100% convinced that that's true.

 

[baz962]

I wish a few people would get fined for holding the doors

 

[Bensonby]

What appalling behaviour have I been a party to, pray?

It is not always appropriate to enforce all laws all of the time. Some of the more minor offences or obscure offences have their uses though. I’m reminded of a domestic incident where one party refused to leave the area despite numerous arrests. I was worried that if I left him there trouble could be caused - he hadn’t actually don’t anything really, yet, but prevention is better than cure. He was therefore arrested for, and convicted of, knocking on a door without lawful authority causing annoyance under s.54 of the Metropolitan Police Act 1839. He was warned!

 

[FQ]

Railway Byelaws Section 11:
11. General safety
(1) No person shall move, operate, obstruct, stop or in any other way interfere with any automatic closing door, train, or any other equipment on the railway except:
(i) in an emergency, by means of any equipment on or near which there is a notice indicating that it is intended to be used in an emergency; or
(ii) any equipment intended for the use of passengers in that way in normal operating circumstances.

I note how it specifies automatic closing door. Would this mean that slam doors are exempt from the rule for whatever reason, whether intentional or otherwise?

 

[Bensonby]

I think I just have. Again, not 100% convinced that that's true.

It is. Byelaw 10(1) See here:

https://assets.publishing.service.g...attachment_data/file/4202/railway-byelaws.pdf

 

[bb21]

Move on please before this becomes a bitchfight.