How else can I prove my innocence?

[RJ]

I've had personal contact with EMT's prosecution department and they seem like quite friendly, pleasant people. Maybe it's worth speaking to them?

 

[sb2jan]

I've had personal contact with EMT's prosecution department and they seem like quite friendly, pleasant people. Maybe it's worth speaking to them?

Oh you mean ringing them up ? It said "any feedback should be written only" so I didn't ring them up. I will do tomorrow ! thank you

 

[telstarbox]

I'm guessing it's either Syston, Sileby or Barrow-upon-Soar you're referring to?

 

[RJ]

I'm guessing it's either Syston, Sileby or Barrow-upon-Soar you're referring to?

Heaven forbid an RPI having to do a sting at any of those places hock:. I use that train every now and again (reminds me of the South London Line, 2 coach units, tight turnarounds, only less likely to run dead on time) and it's often littered with used tickets.

 

[bb21]

Oh you mean ringing them up ? It said "any feedback should be written only" so I didn't ring them up. I will do tomorrow ! thank you

May I suggest that you wait until advice has been sought from one of our more experienced members regarding what to say over the phone before ringing them?

I'm guessing it's either Syston, Sileby or Barrow-upon-Soar you're referring to?

Not necessarily. A number of other stations including some on the Derwent Valley Line are also possible.

May I also make a polite request that when pointing new members in the general direction of our more experienced members, we do not pin-point any of them in particular. There are a number of reasons for that. One of them is that a particular member mentioned may not be available at that point in time, and it could leave our visitors with a bad impression of this forum if that member cannot reply in a speedy manner should he/she be contacted in private. It is best just to mention that we have people who are experienced / Fares Advisors and allow them to reply or get in touch with the new member when they are ready to help.

This is not intended as a criticism, merely a suggestion.

 

[sb2jan]

May I suggest that you wait until advice has been sought from one of our more experienced members regarding what to say over the phone before ringing them?



Not necessarily. A number of other stations including some on the Derwent Valley Line are also possible.

May I also make a polite request that when pointing new members in the general direction of our more experienced members, we do not pin-point any of them in particular. There are a number of reasons for that. One of them is that a particular member mentioned may not be available at that point in time, and it could leave our visitors with a bad impression of this forum if that member cannot reply in a speedy manner should he/she be contacted in private. It is best just to mention that we have people who are experienced / Fares Advisors and allow them to reply or get in touch with the new member when they are ready to help.

This is not intended as a criticism, merely a suggestion.

Oh I see. Thank you!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I'm really sorry I'd rather not mention station names [I'm such a wuss]

 

[bb21]

I'm really sorry I'd rather not mention station names [I'm such a wuss]

Completely understandable and you're not obliged to.

 

[WillPS]

I don't really understand what's to gain by not revealing which station this incident occurred at - there's all sorts of nuggets of information which may or may not be applicable depending.

EMT are absolutely ruthless with "revenue protection" though, I must warn. In the last year or so we've seen:

• Long-serving staff dependents being prosecuted for using pencil rather than pen on a free travel ticket
• Staff members being refused discount on board even where no opportunity to buy a ticket was available
• Passengers using services at stations not even served by EMT being threatened with prosecution by EMT
• Passengers unable to collect ToD advance tickets due to lengthy queues being issued with penalty fares and/or being told to leave the train at the next station (without any attempt to verify whether there might have been valid tickets purchased)

and I'm sure there's a few more things I've forgotten. They are a truly horrible company.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

I'd just like to get my facts straight first.
If I'm reading these posts by the OP correctly, they have NOT sent "quite a few pages just to show them that I pay regularly and also sent them a slightly angry letter" (first post) and no response has yet been made to the opportunity to provide the written Witness Statement which will be used by the Company to assist in reaching a decision whether or not to pursue a Prosecution for the Offence of failing to produce a valid Ticket when Requested.

I'm also assuming that there was a Witness Statement taken at the time of the incident which adequately admitted travel and the lack of ticket at that moment.

I'm also assuming that there is no other Evidence. No receipt for the Ticket, just the possibility that the Bank may provide a more detailled Statement of the relevant Transaction.

It is unlikely that the Company's CCTV records will now be available and if so, would provide adequately clear evidence. There would be a cost incurred by the Company and they may even wish to reclaim that cost.

If all the above assumptions are correct, then we have to consider possible outcomes - other than the obvious one of a successful Prosecution and a modest Fine.

Second, we can probably safely assume that the Company will consider this to be a Railway Byelaw Offence, if so, there is little prospect of success arising from contesting the matter in Court, and little prospect of having the matter dismissed through want of Evidence. The only benefit of employing a solicitor might be in arguing any mitigation to minimise the fine (but the legal cost would be greater) or to negotiate an Out Of Court settlement (if the OP is not confident in attempting this themself. See below).

Therefore, there's no point in waiting for the Summons and pleading Not Guilty.

Thirdly, we do have this opportunity to provide a Statement and indeed anything else we want to say. In view of the above, then I suspect that the most powerful way of influencing the outcome is in this letter.
Attaching evidence of payments will assist, but so will the facts and the tone of your reply.
You've mentioned writing an angry letter. This Statement is the tipping point between the possibilities of being excused or being prosecuted. Chose between Anger and Apology. Which do you think will tip that balance in your favour?

There's no harm in admitting that you genuinely never realised that you were expected to retain your ticket and had always been in posession of a valid ticket and had always been able to present it for inspections on-board. There's no harm in admitting that you feel terrible and helpless having learnt your lesson after the event. Its your story, for you to tell, in your words and with your truthful facts; but please consider it in the context of tipping that balance one way or the other - its the only tool you have at present, so make it work for you.

If that fails, then you'll receive a Summons with an opportunity to plea Guilty or Not Guilty by post. If you reach that stage, then you'll probably also be sent a copy of the Inspector's report, so we'd have to consider that carefully before making a decision. But it may not come to that.

As you've read above, there will be an opportunity for you to contact the Company after sending your statement, or after receiving the Summons, to seek an out-of-Court settlement. If you make it in terms of compensation for the Company's costs to date, then you would have a resonable prospect of an agreement based on your offer of payment.

 

[sb2jan]

Hey guys, just to let you all know. I sent my letter along with my bank statement to try and prove that I did purchase a ticket. Got a letter through the next day saying 'I am willing to close your file upon a payment of £70'.

So yeah, I'm £70 down for leaving my train ticket on the seat. Paid the very next day.

Better than being dragged into court I guess. Aaaagh annoyed but at least I'll be more careful next time.

Thank you to everyone that replied

 

[MikeWh]

And thanks for coming back to tell us the outcome. I'm pleased to hear that it's been resolved with minimal future repercussions (just a hole in your wallet/purse).

 

[sb2jan]

I'd just like to get my facts straight first.
If I'm reading these posts by the OP correctly, they have NOT sent "quite a few pages just to show them that I pay regularly and also sent them a slightly angry letter" (first post) and no response has yet been made to the opportunity to provide the written Witness Statement which will be used by the Company to assist in reaching a decision whether or not to pursue a Prosecution for the Offence of failing to produce a valid Ticket when Requested.

I'm also assuming that there was a Witness Statement taken at the time of the incident which adequately admitted travel and the lack of ticket at that moment.

I'm also assuming that there is no other Evidence. No receipt for the Ticket, just the possibility that the Bank may provide a more detailled Statement of the relevant Transaction.

It is unlikely that the Company's CCTV records will now be available and if so, would provide adequately clear evidence. There would be a cost incurred by the Company and they may even wish to reclaim that cost.

If all the above assumptions are correct, then we have to consider possible outcomes - other than the obvious one of a successful Prosecution and a modest Fine.

Second, we can probably safely assume that the Company will consider this to be a Railway Byelaw Offence, if so, there is little prospect of success arising from contesting the matter in Court, and little prospect of having the matter dismissed through want of Evidence. The only benefit of employing a solicitor might be in arguing any mitigation to minimise the fine (but the legal cost would be greater) or to negotiate an Out Of Court settlement (if the OP is not confident in attempting this themself. See below).

Therefore, there's no point in waiting for the Summons and pleading Not Guilty.

Thirdly, we do have this opportunity to provide a Statement and indeed anything else we want to say. In view of the above, then I suspect that the most powerful way of influencing the outcome is in this letter.
Attaching evidence of payments will assist, but so will the facts and the tone of your reply.
You've mentioned writing an angry letter. This Statement is the tipping point between the possibilities of being excused or being prosecuted. Chose between Anger and Apology. Which do you think will tip that balance in your favour?

There's no harm in admitting that you genuinely never realised that you were expected to retain your ticket and had always been in posession of a valid ticket and had always been able to present it for inspections on-board. There's no harm in admitting that you feel terrible and helpless having learnt your lesson after the event. Its your story, for you to tell, in your words and with your truthful facts; but please consider it in the context of tipping that balance one way or the other - its the only tool you have at present, so make it work for you.

If that fails, then you'll receive a Summons with an opportunity to plea Guilty or Not Guilty by post. If you reach that stage, then you'll probably also be sent a copy of the Inspector's report, so we'd have to consider that carefully before making a decision. But it may not come to that.

As you've read above, there will be an opportunity for you to contact the Company after sending your statement, or after receiving the Summons, to seek an out-of-Court settlement. If you make it in terms of compensation for the Company's costs to date, then you would have a resonable prospect of an agreement based on your offer of payment.

Thank you so much for this. I definitely changed the tone of my letter and you're absolutely right to have suggested that.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I don't really understand what's to gain by not revealing which station this incident occurred at - there's all sorts of nuggets of information which may or may not be applicable depending.

EMT are absolutely ruthless with "revenue protection" though, I must warn. In the last year or so we've seen:

• Long-serving staff dependents being prosecuted for using pencil rather than pen on a free travel ticket
• Staff members being refused discount on board even where no opportunity to buy a ticket was available
• Passengers using services at stations not even served by EMT being threatened with prosecution by EMT
• Passengers unable to collect ToD advance tickets due to lengthy queues being issued with penalty fares and/or being told to leave the train at the next station (without any attempt to verify whether there might have been valid tickets purchased)

and I'm sure there's a few more things I've forgotten. They are a truly horrible company.

Couldn't agree more!

 

[yorkie]

Thanks for getting back to us to let us know how it went

 

[exile]

In reply to those who are asking why the OP left his ticket on the train - it's a rare journey where the table I'm sitting at doesn't have at least one used ticket on it. And coming back from London to Warrington I do sometimes leave my ticket on the train in the knowledge that in 30 years of travelling on that route, hundreds of journeys altogether, I have not once been ticket checked on arrival at Warrington. Come to think of it I've never had my ticket checked on arrival at Euston either, all checks are either on entering the platform (this doesn't happen at Warrington but only at Euston) or on the train. On the other hand travelling to and from Manchester I know I need to keep my ticket as there are barriers at Oxford Road and regular RPI checks at Piccadilly and at Warrington Central. The result is my wallet is inevitably filled with used tickets!

 

[jon0844]

I've been on EC services where people have left tickets behind when alighting.