How essential to life is a smart phone in the 21st century?

[Springs Branch]

The point is (and one I made earlier in the thread) is that it's no longer just a phone. It's a general-purpose computer which is small enough to fit into your pocket and able to fulfil a wide range of tasks. The ability to act like a telephone is just one of the many functions that a smartphone can perform.

For me, the distinction between phones and computers became fully blurred when one of the technology evangelists at my workplace decided we no-longer needed phones on our desks and could all use Skype for Business via our laptops instead.

Now the two seconds it used to take to pick up the handset and poke three buttons to ring Gerald in Accounts takes much longer - by the time you've checked whether the app is already open, waited for it to open, put on your headset & microphone, then scolled down to the person's name with your mouse. At least you now get to see Gerald's ugly mug when he answers. And while I'm waiting for him to look up the answer to my question, I can have a crafty browse of Rail Forums on my smartphone. Awesome technology.

Yet I hear that the global criminal fraternity are always two steps ahead of any online banking security measures put in place by the banks.

I recently listened to a podcast where an IT security expert was being interviewed on various aspects of internet criminality. He said, despite what the banks may tell you, he would never use online banking for his own accounts, even today, for precisely the reason you mention - "always two steps ahead".

 

[Bletchleyite]

I recently listened to a podcast where an IT security expert was being interviewed on various aspects of internet criminality. He said, despite what the banks may tell you, he would never use online banking for his own accounts, even today, for precisely the reason you mention - "always two steps ahead".

I think he's either foolish or paranoid. Used correctly, you are not likely to get your online banking breached. More likely you will get "social engineered" - perhaps he's admitting he isn't good enough at filtering emails that come in for genuine ones?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I think he's either foolish or paranoid. Used correctly, you are not likely to get your online banking breached. More likely you will get "social engineered" - perhaps he's admitting he isn't good enough at filtering emails that come in for genuine ones?

How well do you know of the technical machinations of the high-knowledge staff employed by the global criminal fraternity?

 

[Bletchleyite]

How well do you know of the technical machinations of the high-knowledge staff employed by the global criminal fraternity?

I work in IT so have a decent idea of how IT security works. I also have never had a breach of online banking that has had any effect on my finances, and I've used it pretty much since it was available. Nor do I know anyone who has had such a breach.

The only financial "breach" I have had is a credit card cloning.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I work in IT so have a decent idea of how IT security works. I also have never had a breach of online banking that has had any effect on my finances, and I've used it pretty much since it was available. Nor do I know anyone who has had such a breach.

The only financial "breach" I have had is a credit card cloning.

I will address my query in a different manner. If online banking security is as copper-bottomed as you would have us believe, will the global criminal fraternity desist from their attacks on the international banking sector?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I will address my query in a different manner. If online banking security is as copper-bottomed as you would have us believe, will the global criminal fraternity desist from their attacks on the international banking sector?

I'm sure they won't, but I don't see why that is a reason to wish to use less secure means of communication for banking, such as unencrypted landline telephones or postal letters, or indeed in person where someone could be stood behind watching and listening.

Online banking is by far the most secure way to bank.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Online banking is by far the most secure way to bank.

You may very well think that, I couldn't possibly comment...

I still have not had the Damescene moment which convinces me to follow the herd.

 

[Hadders]

Yet I hear that the global criminal fraternity are always two steps ahead of any online banking security measures put in place by the banks.

Of course banking fraud was unheard of until online banking came along. I think not.

 

[RichT54]

I work in IT so have a decent idea of how IT security works. I also have never had a breach of online banking that has had any effect on my finances, and I've used it pretty much since it was available. Nor do I know anyone who has had such a breach.

The only financial "breach" I have had is a credit card cloning.

My Lloyds current account was hacked in 2009. The first I knew about it was when I received an email saying my "Clicksafe" password had just been changed. Not having changed it myself, I quickly logged in and found four fraudulent transactions, sending the money somewhere by Post Office Online and Western Union Online. The total sum involved was £612. I phoned the bank and reported the issue. Although some of the transactions were still pending they refused to cancel them for some reason. However, they did refund all the money a week later. Despite asking on the phone and in the report that I had to submit, Lloyds never revealed how the criminals had been able to change the password. Some time after this incident the Clicksafe process was changed and its use of passwords was dropped.

 

[najaB]

Yet I hear that the global criminal fraternity are always two steps ahead of any online banking security measures put in place by the banks.

Just because you hear it, doesn't make it true. It's more or less parity between the banks and the 'bad guys'.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Just because you hear it, doesn't make it true. It's more or less parity between the banks and the 'bad guys'.

Did you read the second part of posting # 121, as it appears that I am not alone in my belief.

 

[najaB]

Despite asking on the phone and in the report that I had to submit, Lloyds never revealed how the criminals had been able to change the password.

It's almost certain that you provided them the password. Not intentionally or knowingly, of course, but by them fooling you into revealing it through compromising a site that you used or by installing key logging software.

 

[najaB]

Did you read the second part of posting # 121, as it appears that I am not alone in my belief.

The fact that people believe something doesn't make it true. Around 60% of cybercrime starts with phishing or social engineering rather than by people actually cracking the security systems. It's far, far easier for me to simply ask you for your password than it is to try and crack it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's almost certain that you provided them the password. Not intentionally or knowingly, of course, but by them fooling you into revealing it through compromising a site that you used or by installing key logging software.

And two-factor authentication is the best fix to this, because however insecure the password is they can't get in if they haven't also nicked your phone (or RSA SecurID token, or card to put in one of those stupid readers, or whatever).

 

[RichT54]

It's almost certain that you provided them the password. Not intentionally or knowingly, of course, but by them fooling you into revealing it through compromising a site that you used or by installing key logging software.

Except, at the time I remember reading several articles where bank staff had been tricked by criminals into providing one-time passwords for customers' accounts and that the banks were highly reluctant to reveal this weakness in their security.

 

[ComUtoR]

The lockdown has proved how valuable my phone is and how amazing technology can be.

I haven't seen my Daughter in weeks as she is isolating elsewhere but I still get to see her as we video chat, send pictures, videos and play games together all through my 'smartphone' Myself, my Son, Daughter, my Nephew, and my Sister, who is in America, all joined together for a video call. This really is the age of communication. That ability to bring people together has been priceless.

I remember watching Star Trek as a child and watching them talk on hand held communicators and have video calls on the big screen. We are now living in that very future. Some of us are looking to the next step and seeing how remarkable Hologram technology is and that it can now bring the person into the same room with you (google hololens)

Every generation has something that the older generation frowns upon or are scared of.

I bought my Mum(67) a smartwatch recently as she asked for 'one of those fitbit thingies' that 'tracks her sleep' being the dutiful Son I got her something all singing and very much all dancing. She used it for the first time last week (I hadn't seen her during lockdown) and she called me up to say how amazing it is and started telling me all about it. Its such a small thing but to her it has made a significant change.

Essential ? Still no; but they can bring so much to so many.

 

[najaB]

Except, at the time I remember reading several articles where bank staff had been tricked by criminals into providing one-time passwords for customers' accounts and that the banks were highly reluctant to reveal this weakness in their security.

That's also possible. Though it's the same principle, just a different person being tricked, rather than a breach in the actual security systems.

 

[scotrail158713]

The lockdown has proved how valuable my phone is and how amazing technology can be.

Without going too OT I’d completely agree. Whilst you could survive without a mobile phone, it makes you feel less isolated and you can connect with people you can’t visit just now. FaceTime/Zoom isn’t ideal, but it’s definitely a nice thing to still be able to speak to people “face to face” as such.

 

[david1212]

The last time I used any mobile phone was just before Christmas.

I have a Smartphone that now is at least 5 years old bought used off a work colleague. The SIM is PAYG with Three so while cheap rate coverage is not great. Inside the house it is only 1 bar. I also have a very basic phone that I normally carry with Virgin Simply 8p SIM. The Virgin network was shared across T-mobile and Orange before they merged. It is this phone I normally carry when out locally.

When not used to avoid loosing credit I send a text between the two.

On Wi-fi where possible if out the Smartphone is useful for accessing Realtime Trains particularly if a delay or interconnections. I have Maps.me loaded which saves having to have a printed street map when visiting unfamiliar places. The third main use is linked with a bluetooth module to get some idea why the car has thrown its toys out the pram.

Without reading glasses I struggle to see the screen on a phone ( I have to have varifocals day-to-day to see both distance and do basic things like read labels when shopping but find them poor for a screen ) and likewise struggle with the onscreen keyboard.

Useful occasionally yes, essential no.

 

[D6975]

My son lives with his mother. My mobile’s most important function is as a contact method in case of emergency regarding him. I am on PAYG and only need to put a tenner on every 2-3 months.

A tip about online security – on a PC always use the on-screen keyboard for entering passwords, it renders keylogging malware impotent.

 

[Enthusiast]

I am on PAYG and only need to put a tenner on every 2-3 months.

For £6 a month I get unlimited texts, 500m of talk (unlimited at present due to Covid but reverting to 500m next month) and 10 Giga wosnames of whatever it is. Very reasonable and I never get anywhere near any of the limits. I make virtually no outgoing calls on my landline now (except at weekends when they are free under my plan) and that alone more than pays my six quid. I find my SmartPhone indispensable when out and about to check bus and train arrivals (I stay in the pub if there's a lengthy gap). Obviously haven't been doing much of that lately.

 

[AM9]

The lockdown has proved how valuable my phone is and how amazing technology can be.

I haven't seen my Daughter in weeks as she is isolating elsewhere but I still get to see her as we video chat, send pictures, videos and play games together all through my 'smartphone' Myself, my Son, Daughter, my Nephew, and my Sister, who is in America, all joined together for a video call. This really is the age of communication. That ability to bring people together has been priceless.

I remember watching Star Trek as a child and watching them talk on hand held communicators and have video calls on the big screen. We are now living in that very future. Some of us are looking to the next step and seeing how remarkable Hologram technology is and that it can now bring the person into the same room with you (google hololens)

Every generation has something that the older generation frowns upon or are scared of.

I bought my Mum(67) a smartwatch recently as she asked for 'one of those fitbit thingies' that 'tracks her sleep' being the dutiful Son I got her something all singing and very much all dancing. She used it for the first time last week (I hadn't seen her during lockdown) and she called me up to say how amazing it is and started telling me all about it. Its such a small thing but to her it has made a significant change.

Essential ? Still no; but they can bring so much to so many.

Video calls aren't restricted to mobile smartphones, - it's actually better using a desktop.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Video calls aren't restricted to mobile smartphones, - it's actually better using a desktop.

Depends on the camera. My phone has a better camera than my laptop.

 

[ComUtoR]

Video calls aren't restricted to mobile smartphones, - it's actually better using a desktop.

Most of a smartphones features can be found on other devices but isn't that the beauty of the smartphone ? They are widely available and highly accessible. Not everyone has a desktop. When I walk through a train I see many people video calling each other. One thing Apple got right has been Facetime. Whilst I don't credit them with creating Video calls, they have done a lot to normalise them.

I wonder, if someone decided to list it, how many devices are all squished into the tiny little form factor tucked in my pocket.

 

[Butts]

As the proud owner of a Samsung GT E-1200 (£9.99 from tesco years ago) I don't fall into the smartphone aficionados category.

It makes calls and is "text enabled" whats not to like !!

I have a laptop which I use at home. One of the reasons I don't have a smartphone is because I would probably be on it all the time when travelling.
I prefer to read books or newspapers ans save internet access for home use. There are a couple of occasions a smartphone may have been handy - mostly related to travel delays !!

 

[AM9]

... Whilst I don't credit them with creating Video calls, they have done a lot to normalise them. ...

Facetime is an Apple-only application and as such has only normalised video calls for those who have Apple devices. The rest of the world uses other videoconferencing applications such as Skype and Zoom.

 

[najaB]

Facetime is an Apple-only application and as such has only normalised video calls for those who have Apple devices.

I don't think that ComUtoR meant the technical protocol, but rather the idea of smartphone to smartphone video calling.

 

[AM9]

I don't think that ComUtoR meant the technical protocol, but rather the idea of smartphone to smartphone video calling.

OK, fair enough. I would however say that video on a smartphone is more of a novelty compared with video communications via a desktop. Although Facetime is also available on Apple desktops, I would imagine that most Apple desktop users would probably prefer a more serious application such as Zoom, Skype or even Teams which gives more than a tiny picture to talk to, all of which also work with Windows, Linux as well as Apple OSs and Skype was around before smartphones existed.

 

[najaB]

OK, fair enough. I would however say that video on a smartphone is more of a novelty compared with video communications via a desktop. Although Facetime is also available on Apple desktops, I would imagine that most Apple desktop users would probably prefer a more serious application such as Zoom, Skype or even Teams which gives more than a tiny picture to talk to, all of which also work with Windows, Linux as well as Apple OSs and Skype was around before smartphones existed.

All true, but it was Facetime that really moved video calling out of the business space and into common consumer usage. I'd have to double-check but I don't think Skype offered mobile video calling before Facetime was on the market.

Edit: There's a few months in it, but Facetime debuted in April 2010 and Skype mobile video calling was introduced in October of the same year.

 

[mmh]

Depends on the camera. My phone has a better camera than my laptop.

Indeed. I must've made thousands of video calls to and with people all using Macbooks over the last decade. The cameras are awful, my cheap Android phone is better, and I believe expensive iPhones are better still.