How long can a DMU keep moving?

[hairyhandedfool]

A simple question really, how long can 142s, 153s, 156s and 158s operate for before the need more fuel?

Ideally we are talking about running about the mainline as opposed to idle-ing, I know it will vary a bit according to route, speed, number of stops, etc, but does someone have a rough idea?

 

[37401]

I dont know but something lucky to tell you, I came back from London Euston and as I got off the 390 they annouced a service from Bounemouth has ran out of diesel at coventry Lucky or what

 

[starrymarkb]

Presumably that will have had a leak or some other thing to prevent it being fueled (ie running out of course because of earlier disruption and hasn't had a chance to be refuled)

 

[Guard]

depends entirely on the type of unit and fuel tanks it has fitted. your talking roughly 1500 miles at aguess. although i believe ftpe 170s can just mange 485 miles!

 

[HSTfan!!!]

Not so sure about units, but I'm sure I was told a HST can manage 2 return journeys between swansea and pad - I'm not 100% on that though

 

[mumrar]

depends entirely on the type of unit and fuel tanks it has fitted. your talking roughly 1500 miles at aguess. although i believe ftpe 170s can just mange 485 miles!

I don't know if TPX have sent their turbos to Max Power for tuning then? XC 170s have diagrams way in excess of that mileage before being refuelled. Example - a 170 works 07.00 Notts-Cardiff, 10.45 Cardiff-Notts, 14.37 Notts-Brum, 16.19 Brum-Notts, 18.08 Notts-Cardiff, 21.50 Cardiff-Brum. Without empty stock moves (think this starts from Leicester) I make that 720 miles give or take a few chains. i don't think XC turbos can't be 50% better on fuel than TPXs.

 

[Old Timer]

In BR days we worked on a loco running at 1 mile per gallon of diesel.

I recall that a HST could do KX to Aberdeen and back with sufficient fuel to reach Bounds Green.

Running out of fuel was not a common occurrence as on the Eastern the Regional Control at York had a shift Traction Maintenance and Running Controller who oversaw all loco workings and was responsible for monitoring loco hours run for exams and miles run for fuel.

DMUs were not monitored except for long distance jobs, as they came off the depot each day fuelled up sufficiently to complete their diagram.

Issues only arose because of failures and the need to swap sets over, which could result in a unit low on fuel being put into a high mileage diagram. As I remember DMUs came under Divisional Control for fuel mileage monitoring in co-ordination with the owning DMU depot.

Hope this may be of interest if only from a historical perspective.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Thanks for your responses so far, some useful knowledge there.

 

[Z12XE]

Looking at a randon NXEA Class 170 weekday diagram (and assuming the unit stays on diagram) it will work 600.60 miles on day 1 and 564.04 on day 2, with no trip to a fueling point in between.

NXEA earlier this year pushed a 153 right over the limits due to overhead wire problems after a bank holiday at Ardleigh preventing unit swap.
Friday: 64.38 (ECS)
Saturday: 389.72
Sunday: 365.66
BH Monday: 365.66
Tuesday (153 vice 156): 523.73 (the last 46 or so with a 170 in tow ECS)

There was lots of coasting on the Tuesday!!

The mileages are from the diagrams so may not be exact, but they wont be far off

 

[moonrakerz]

http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=5043.0

 

[Old Timer]

Many years back some American efficiency experts came to look at how BR was operating and advise.

Having wandered around various depots, sidings, stations, etc they asked the question as to why they never saw a loco or a DMU with its engines shut down.

"We dare not shut them down ever because the odds are favourite that they will never start again" was the reply.

Modern diesel engine technology of course now ensures that this scenario is long gone, and of course results in much greater fuel efficiency and of course range, as the old BR figures were based upon engines idling when not in traffic.

It was of course not totally true that we never shut locomotives down but I am also sure that many will remember walking around Toton TMD (for example) on a Saturday afternoon with scores of locos sitting there idling away, and the whole place absolutely deserted ! Similarly Tinsley.

 

[yorksrob]

Many years back some American efficiency experts came to look at how BR was operating and advise.

Having wandered around various depots, sidings, stations, etc they asked the question as to why they never saw a loco or a DMU with its engines shut down.

"We dare not shut them down ever because the odds are favourite that they will never start again" was the reply.

Modern diesel engine technology of course now ensures that this scenario is long gone, and of course results in much greater fuel efficiency and of course range, as the old BR figures were based upon engines idling when not in traffic.

It was of course not totally true that we never shut locomotives down but I am also sure that many will remember walking around Toton TMD (for example) on a Saturday afternoon with scores of locos sitting there idling away, and the whole place absolutely deserted ! Similarly Tinsley.

I hope they visited some electric depots to get some balance

 

[Guard]

I don't know if TPX have sent their turbos to Max Power for tuning then? XC 170s have diagrams way in excess of that mileage before being refuelled. Example - a 170 works 07.00 Notts-Cardiff, 10.45 Cardiff-Notts, 14.37 Notts-Brum, 16.19 Brum-Notts, 18.08 Notts-Cardiff, 21.50 Cardiff-Brum. Without empty stock moves (think this starts from Leicester) I make that 720 miles give or take a few chains. i don't think XC turbos can't be 50% better on fuel than TPXs.

you must remeber that these particular 170s wereordered by swt with the intention of just rolling round the local southampton sailsbury area with the odd trip to the big smoke. so why waste money ordering long range tanks when the short range is good enough for what they will be used on?

 

[starrymarkb]

Many years back some American efficiency experts came to look at how BR was operating and advise.

Having wandered around various depots, sidings, stations, etc they asked the question as to why they never saw a loco or a DMU with its engines shut down.

"We dare not shut them down ever because the odds are favourite that they will never start again" was the reply.

Modern diesel engine technology of course now ensures that this scenario is long gone, and of course results in much greater fuel efficiency and of course range, as the old BR figures were based upon engines idling when not in traffic.

It was of course not totally true that we never shut locomotives down but I am also sure that many will remember walking around Toton TMD (for example) on a Saturday afternoon with scores of locos sitting there idling away, and the whole place absolutely deserted ! Similarly Tinsley.

This from the country that never shuts an engine off.

 

[Old Timer]

Probably to do with the fact that a gallon of petrol in the US is broadly £1.37.

Over the last year petrol has steadily fallen in the US from about $3.50 to $2.25 today.

Americans are so wedded to their cars and sensitive to the price of petrol, that it would be Political suicide for anyone to meddle with the price as they do here.

 

[JustinStacey.x]

"We dare not shut them down ever because the odds are favourite that they will never start again" was the reply.

I have that same mentality with my computer. Damn thang's been runnin for 36 days straight.

 

[SqUaShIe P]

I've was wondering this the other night. I was working a 170 for the first time, just having a little look round the cab and wondered if there was like a petrol gauge anywhere. failed to find one though.

 

[TheSlash]

you must remeber that these particular 170s wereordered by swt with the intention of just rolling round the local southampton sailsbury area with the odd trip to the big smoke. so why waste money ordering long range tanks when the short range is good enough for what they will be used on?

If you had long range fuel tanks, you would reduce the visits to the fuel point, perhaps fueling them every other night instead of nightly. As most of them found their way back to Salisbury each night, this would of meant less shunting on depot
Fuel gauges can be found on the fuel tanks and probably the TMS.

 

[schmoo_smith]

I have that same mentality with my computer. Damn thang's been runnin for 36 days straight.

best buy a mac then

 

[Guard]

If you had long range fuel tanks, you would reduce the visits to the fuel point, perhaps fueling them every other night instead of nightly. As most of them found their way back to Salisbury each night, this would of meant less shunting on depot
Fuel gauges can be found on the fuel tanks and probably the TMS.

swt seem to have the policy ofbfueling almost every last train daily.