How many of our Heritage Railways are in trouble?

[wheeltapper49]

I am 70 years and plus have lived my life being the eternal optimist. (pint half full!).I won't bore you with any of the challenges life has chucked on me and as a life long rail enthusiast it I know ain't easy! Yes if you think of the predicament our heritage railways are in during these unprecedented then times then you could well despair. However, I am not going to. How many times in the past have you heard about railways in dire straights and have met with impossible situations but to overcome and be even stronger. I am deliberately not giving pacific examples as the are many except one which encompasses the situation !984 was the year the Settle and Carlisle was set to close after all the hard work was put in by many people. All was lost until there was light at the end of the tunnel (Blea Moor perhaps!) and the rest they say is history. Think of the current situation in 1984 and there area lot of similarities. Common guys, be positive when your pint is half full then top it up!!

 

[37424]

I am 70 years and plus have lived my life being the eternal optimist. (pint half full!).I won't bore you with any of the challenges life has chucked on me and as a life long rail enthusiast it I know ain't easy! Yes if you think of the predicament our heritage railways are in during these unprecedented then times then you could well despair. However, I am not going to. How many times in the past have you heard about railways in dire straights and have met with impossible situations but to overcome and be even stronger. I am deliberately not giving pacific examples as the are many except one which encompasses the situation !984 was the year the Settle and Carlisle was set to close after all the hard work was put in by many people. All was lost until there was light at the end of the tunnel (Blea Moor perhaps!) and the rest they say is history. Think of the current situation in 1984 and there area lot of similarities. Common guys, be positive when your pint is half full then top it up!!

Except ultimately the government decided to Bank Roll the S&C will they Bank Roll Preserved Railways against the backdrop of everything else they are going to have to Bank Roll, I very much doubt it.

 

[the sniper]

Have faith, Michael Denzil Xavier Portillo will save them too. I doubt he'll even mention it...

 

[Paul Hitchcock]

I really do think it is impossible to calculate the financial vulnerability of places by virtue of their size. Anywhere in the middle of large expenditure when the virus hit is vulnerable.

 

[Flying Phil]

I'm with wheeltapper49 on this....and continue to make donations covering the cost of my (non)visits to my local heritage railway. Long may it exist!

 

[nferguso]

This came to mind when visiting the Ecclesbourne Valley Railway over half term. I'm sure they're doing their best, but it's not much of a day out. One trip there and back again on a fairly tatty DMU, and you've done it all.

While they're not in the middle of nowhere, public transport in that part of Derbyshire isn't all that brilliant, and although they do meet the mainline railway at one end, services start from the other, and don't necessarily connect very well with mainline trains.

Peak Rail is only up the road, and Butterley isn't far either, so there's obviously a bit of competition in this area, and sadly I don't think they're going to keep up. We bought our tickets at a discount through Groupon, which is itself often an indicator of a business struggling to survive, and I feel if we'd paid the full price we'd have come away feeling ripped off.

I'm going to have to pick you up on this: you are entitled to your opinion but I cannot let your comments go unchallenged.

As Vice Chairman of the Ecclesbourne Valley Railway I can only apologise if your found our DMU 'tatty': it was the start of the season and our stock was only just coming back to life.

I'm not a fan of your "they're doing their best" comment - a bit patronising and doesn't really resonate with a volunteer force of over 200 who have restored a railway from complete disuse, is now a restoration centre and even acts as a testing site for the rail industry.

Too right we're not in the middle of nowhere and 'One trip there and back again on a fairly tatty DMU and you've done it all' does trigger the famous Basil Fawlty quote: "What do you expect, herds of wildebeest sweeping majestically across the plain?" The line is nine miles long and - importantly - runs from a main line junction station to Wirksworth, a town (when not locked down) of 5,000 people, six pubs, two restaurants and unlimited access to the Peak District.

Over 90% of our visitors come by car but I would challenge you to find another heritage railway that runs its services to connect with the mainline (East Midlands Railway's Nottingham to Matlock service) AND offers through ticketing from main line stations.

I shall let Peak Rail and Butterly reply for themselves but I shall try to arrange the wildebeest for next year.

 

[Meole]

EVR represents everything that is good in the heritage sector, incremental progress, whilst preserving stock and bringing in a redundant signal box across country, neat and tidy, a very pleasant ride through the countryside, and all pulling together, long may it prosper.

 

[Titfield]

Yes I share that view.

Another possible determining factor will be those whose fixed costs are low or can be significantly reduced. Those at most risk will be those whose landlords insist on full rent payments and / or the loco owners also insisting that rent is paid.

Defferment of monies owed may not help in the long run as those bills will still have to be paid and it is hard to envisage the lost months revenue being made up.

Some railways rely on paid staff in key roles. If those individuals are made redundant will sufficient skilled volunteers step forward to fill the gap? Will HMRI / ORR have increasing concerns as to the ability of the railway to operate safely? Given the events at the SDR and WSR in recent years - and the pronouncement by HMRI that they are paying increasing attention to Heritage Railways - it seees to me that heritage railways may find themselves in very invidious positions.

It does somewhat surprise me that heritage railway operators are not required by law to have a paid qualified competent "operations" manager nominated on their "licence" in the same way that psv / hgv operators are required to have a nominated paid competent transport manager on their operators license.

 

[Bletchleyite]

EVR represents everything that is good in the heritage sector, incremental progress, whilst preserving stock and bringing in a redundant signal box across country, neat and tidy, a very pleasant ride through the countryside, and all pulling together, long may it prosper.

And I got to fulfil a childhood dream (10 years ago now) by driving their Class 101!

 

[LowLevel]

I'm going to have to pick you up on this: you are entitled to your opinion but I cannot let your comments go unchallenged.

As Vice Chairman of the Ecclesbourne Valley Railway I can only apologise if your found our DMU 'tatty': it was the start of the season and our stock was only just coming back to life.

I'm not a fan of your "they're doing their best" comment - a bit patronising and doesn't really resonate with a volunteer force of over 200 who have restored a railway from complete disuse, is now a restoration centre and even acts as a testing site for the rail industry.

Too right we're not in the middle of nowhere and 'One trip there and back again on a fairly tatty DMU and you've done it all' does trigger the famous Basil Fawlty quote: "What do you expect, herds of wildebeest sweeping majestically across the plain?" The line is nine miles long and - importantly - runs from a main line junction station to Wirksworth, a town (when not locked down) of 5,000 people, six pubs, two restaurants and unlimited access to the Peak District.

Over 90% of our visitors come by car but I would challenge you to find another heritage railway that runs its services to connect with the mainline (East Midlands Railway's Nottingham to Matlock service) AND offers through ticketing from main line stations.

I shall let Peak Rail and Butterly reply for themselves but I shall try to arrange the wildebeest for next year.

I went for a rattle last year and thoroughly enjoyed it. Boarded at Duffield. The staff were friendly and the facilities are coming along nicely. Iris was the traction and beautifully presented. It's a bit slow at the Wirksworth end with the crossings but that can't be helped.

Got to Wirksworth at a good time of day to go for a couple of beers in an excellent little pub, have a wander about and some lunch and then caught Iris back up the line for the train home.

This was a quiet midweek day so I wouldn't expect more than that and the price was very reasonable. The other passengers seemed to be enjoying themselves.

Considering the length of time it has been operational I find the EVR to be an example of a very good small to medium (business size rather than length) heritage railway.

I work as a guard on the Matlock trains and I always make a point of mentioning the EVR in my station announcements for Duffield during the operating season, I wouldn't recommend it if I didn't like it.

 

[Neen Sollars]

GWSR closed until at least end of August. All special events for remainder of 2020 including Santa Specials have been cancelled.
From Chairman`s update

 

[reddragon]

GWSR closed until at least end of August. All special events for remainder of 2020 including Santa Specials have been cancelled.
From Chairman`s update

Not quite what their website says. All events cancelled up to October and amended Santa Specials TBC

Santa Experience 2020 | Gloucestershire Warwickshire Steam Railway

Santa Experience 2020 -

www.gwsr.com

With the Governments ’social distancing' measures likely to be in force for the foreseeable future, we regret that we won't be able to run or normal Santa Special experience this year.


However, we have a team of volunteers looking at the possibility of providing a Santa experience which will vary from our normal format.
Keep up to date by regularly visiting this page.

 

[swanhill41]

I have had a few words with an operation on one of the major lines,and the comment I got ,that before they open they will
have to do a proper risk assessment before they open up...In short they will follow the law of the land to the letter.!
I think it's best put as "STAY SAFE,BE SAFE"
I listed at same time as GWSR posting ref Santa rains...Ominous,as no way will they get the bums on seats as in normal times.
Think that 2020 will be the year of the "begging "bowl"

 

[paul1609]

Some railways rely on paid staff in key roles. If those individuals are made redundant will sufficient skilled volunteers step forward to fill the gap? Will HMRI / ORR have increasing concerns as to the ability of the railway to operate safely? Given the events at the SDR and WSR in recent years - and the pronouncement by HMRI that they are paying increasing attention to Heritage Railways - it seees to me that heritage railways may find themselves in very invidious positions.

Its all very much in hand: https://orr.gov.uk/__data/assets/pd...way-recovery-plan-in-response-to-covid-19.pdf

 

[Titfield]

Yes I have seen the ORR guidance. I would like to see the ORR / HMRI carry out a few snap inspections and publish the results. That will give the public the confidence that Heritage Railways are safe palces to visit and may encourage patronage that otherwise may have stayed away.

 

[theblackwatch]

Not quite what their website says. All events cancelled up to October and amended Santa Specials TBC

Santa Experience 2020 | Gloucestershire Warwickshire Steam Railway

Santa Experience 2020 -

www.gwsr.com

Their Facebook page is a bit contradictory and says:

Following the latest HMG advice the GWSR Board have decided that the railway will close for the forseeable future.
A statement is at: http://ow.ly/CR3n50zEqOU

All 2020 special events, including #Santa Trains have been cancelled. Advance ticket holders are being contacted.

 

[Neen Sollars]

Not quite what their website says. All events cancelled up to October and amended Santa Specials TBC

Santa Experience 2020 | Gloucestershire Warwickshire Steam Railway

Santa Experience 2020 -

www.gwsr.com

"We have now agreed to cancel all planned operations in July and August, and all remaining special events in 2020 (including Santa trains). The remaining Fish & Chip trains and Fire & Drive courses are all also now cancelled. When we are able to return to operations, we need to concentrate on being able to run a basic service again, without having to deal with special events."

Chairman GWSR

 

[Belperpete]

"We have now agreed to cancel all planned operations in July and August, and all remaining special events in 2020 (including Santa trains). The remaining Fish & Chip trains and Fire & Drive courses are all also now cancelled. When we are able to return to operations, we need to concentrate on being able to run a basic service again, without having to deal with special events."

Chairman GWSR

I can understand about galas and they like, that can require a lot of advance planning. However, to many railways, fish and chip trains are pretty much part of the standard offering.

 

[swanhill41]

No income for 2020?...Well not quite,but lets say there is only 10% of budgeted income coming in ?....The question is how are they going to survive after 2020?...That's referring to the statement from GSWR

 

[Maybach]

I can understand about galas and they like, that can require a lot of advance planning. However, to many railways, fish and chip trains are pretty much part of the standard offering.

It's highly unlikely that any heritage railway will be able to offer on-train buffet facilities, let alone fish and chips, until there is a usable vaccine.

 

[Belperpete]

It's highly unlikely that any heritage railway will be able to offer on-train buffet facilities, let alone fish and chips, until there is a usable vaccine.

If people can sit on a train, then there is absolutely no reason why they couldn't sit and eat. We need to get away from the idea that normal life won't return until a vaccine is available - there is a good chance that one will never be available. Normal life will return once we have the virus under control, as it has in China and South Korea.

 

[Maybach]

If people can sit on a train, then there is absolutely no reason why they couldn't sit and eat. We need to get away from the idea that normal life won't return until a vaccine is available - there is a good chance that one will never be available. Normal life will return once we have the virus under control, as it has in China and South Korea.

Yes, but passengers would have to be sufficiently spaced out - and it might not then be economically viable to run a fish and chip train. The only other alternative is to wear a face mask - not ideal for eating! That said, maybe some form of smart testing could help?

 

[Cowley]

It’s very difficult at the moment separating the financial problems facing heritage railways vs the new financial problems that have now arisen, but there’s a couple of threads covering the COVID-19 situation and heritage railways here that might be better to discuss what’s going to happen this next year or two:

Coronavirus virus effect on Heritage lines Summer 2020

I believe there is concern amongst the heritage railway lines that the above may have a very damaging effect on business and therefore cashflow this summer. Any one heard of similar whispers ?

www.railforums.co.uk

Will Covid-19 affect the way we do our hobby for good??

As there's no dedicated thread regarding how the Covid pandemic is affecting our hobby as such (I know there's bits and pieces on other threads) I thought I'd start this up for the sole purpose, and as seeing we have railway professionals on here, it would be good to hear there thoughts too...

www.railforums.co.uk

I just say this as some of these issues have been discussed in the first thread already.
Thanks all.