How many people still have no bank account and still have no smartphones or computers or internet access.

[skyhigh]

How do you pay the Inland Revenue, for Staff NI, income tax, employment taxes even business taxes ?

Do the IR accept cash ?
Same question for pension contributions ?

I pay all of my bills and taxes at the Post Office

 

[181]

Smartphones, well, I suspect it is mostly very old people who don't and that demographic is bluntly rapidly dying off.

I'm in my early 50s and have never yet felt the need to get one -- if I'm very old, it won't be that many years till you are too . There are a small number of things for which I sometimes think one might be useful, but not strongly enough to cause me to do anything about it. I'm not unique among people I know, either (and my brother only got one last year when his non-smart mobile phone stopped working).

 

[philthetube]

Anyone can get Internet access at a public library. Therefore if they want it that is already at 100%.

Certainly my mother has internet access by that definition, however she would look at the computer and scratch her head, and she is not the only elderly lady I know who would have that reaction.

It is not a case of wanting it, at her age her brain just dose not have the capacity to learn it.

 

[Bantamzen]

In the thread about EU entry rules in was mentioned that the new ETIAS required a bank account and internet access. It was mentioned by some that almost everyone has that these days so i have started a new thread to discuss this to avoid going off topic in that one. I wonder how many other people these days do not have a bank account and how many people do not have a smartphone or computer or internet access.

I personally do not have a bank account and have never had a bank account in my life. The main reason is that i have never needed one so never bothered opening one and also i really do not like the idea of the banks and governments having control over my money.

People always act like it must be so difficult not having a bank account but i have always found it very easy to get by without one. I pay all of my bills and taxes at the Post Office and in fact most things are done through the Post Office so they make it quite easy. I doubt i would manage without a Bank Account if the Post Office did not exist. Although you can also use Pay Point and Pay Zone for many things.

I send cash to other people and receive cash from other people by using the Moneygram or Western Union or Post Office Money Order services. You can even buy a lot of stuff online by purchasing Gift Cards in shops. For example to order on Amazon you just buy a Gift Card for Amazon in the shops. Obviously in London you can use Oyster without a bank account by topping up in shops so you can get the same fares as contactless.

I have my own small business which i have been running for almost fourty years and i deal solely with cash. I pay my suppliers in cash and pay my staff in cash and only accept cash from customers. I know there are plenty of other small businesses like mine so cash is still very much in use (and before anyone accuses me of it i am NOT a tax evader and my reasons for not having a bank account do NOT have anything to do with avoiding taxes).

But i do wonder how many people in the UK do not have bank accounts? Is there any statistics or estimates? I would be interested how many people other forum members know who do not have bank accounts and what are the ages of them too? Also what is the situation in other countries as i know many countries (especially Eastern Europe and also most third world countries) it is very common not to have a bank account while other countries (especially Sweden which is a nightmare for cash users like myself) probably have far fewer people without bank accounts than the UK?

I am certainly not the only one as i have a couple of friends in their 40s and 50s and 60s who have no bank account either. But i reckon it is quite rare these days compared to say fourty years ago. Also both my parents do not have a bank account (although they are both in their 90s so it is probably very common for people of that age to not have a bank account).

Similarly i wonder how many people do not have a smartphone or computer or internet access? Does anyone on here know anyone without any of these?

I never used the internet or computers or smartphones (or even a mobile phone) before 2010. It took me a while to start using these. But since then i do have a computer and a smartphone. The internet and technology is great (this forum is a great example of the great things about the internet) but in some ways i do kind of prefer the days before the internet and smartphones and computers were invented.

Again my parents (who are in their 90s now) have never used smartphones or computers or the internet. They do not even have a mobile phone. So i guess it is still quite common for older people. But i reckon that it must be extremely rare for anyone who is not either an OAP or homeless to not have a smartphone or computer or internet access these days.

So i would be interested to hear your thoughts on how many people currently do not have a bank account or how many people currently do not have a smartphone or computer or internet access? Does anyone think there will ever be a time when 100% of the population has these?

Obviously its your own choice only to accept cash, however does only paying in cash cause problems with suppliers as increasingly they are going to insist on electronic payments?

As for the question at hand, a few years ago I seem to recall a report that around 1.2 million people in the UK did not have access to a bank account, which was done from around 2.5 million people a decade previously. So the numbers are dwindling, but as a cash only business you are going to need to be aware that a lot more people now use contactless by default, often not carrying any cash with them. So by only accepting cash you may well be shrinking your potential customer base. Entirely your choice as I say, but its something you might want to consider going forwards.

Benefits can still be paid in cash. There is something called the "Payment Exception Service" for people who do not have bank accounts. This allows you to pick up your benefits at a Post Office (or Pay Point or Pay Zone too i believe) so it is possible. A bank account is not required for benefits.

This is correct, there is the Payment Exception Scheme that allows claimants alternative means of payment where they do not have access to a bank account.

 

[Typhoon]

Certainly my mother has internet access by that definition, however she would look at the computer and scratch her head, and she is not the only elderly lady I know who would have that reaction.

It is not a case of wanting it, at her age her brain just dose not have the capacity to learn it.

Not totally dissimilar to my mother. She was an avid reader and used the internet in that I would use my laptop to go on to one of those websites which would suggest an author she might like based on others she had enjoyed previously. She would then read synopses of books by that author and we (ie I) would reserve them to be picked by from the mobile library. She had a notebook where she wrote down what keys did. The one that she used most often was 'PgDn'. It was a very short list, mainly the navigation keys and 'Esc'. I tried to extend the list from time to time but she was concerned that she would 'break the computer'. I think the only time she used the letter keys was when we set up an e-mail account for her (there was something where entering an e-mail address was mandatory, but it was never used mainly because she couldn't remember where she had written down the password - I only found it after she passed away, it was hidden away for safe keeping). She might look at a family tree I had set up but, again, it was mainly 'PgUp' and 'PgDn'.

If this counts as using the internet then she used the internet. I think the problem is that the learning that is required is a step too far in the same way that there will have been people about a hundred years ago for whom television was and I am finding now, in my seventies, that there is technology I am uneasy with simply I don't understand it (anything to do with cryptocurrencies for a start).

There are still plenty of people whose grasp is minimal. I occasionally use the library computers and would hear people being taught how to use them by 'computer buddies' so I am sure that we have a long way to go before the country as a whole is computer literate.

 

[DelayRepay]

My mum would count as 'using the internet' - she has broadband at home but all she uses it for is to catch up on missed TV programmes on the I-player, which is built into her TV. She cannot do anything more complex than that, and if the TV ever loses its wifi settings she has to get the neighbour to fix it for her.

Anything else that needs to be done online is done by me or my sister. That includes things like keeping an eye on the electricity/gas bills, renewing insurance policies and even some NHS things like booking flu jab appointments. We don't do her banking for her though, she still does that by phone and checking the monthly paper statement. I have tried to teach her to use a tablet to do basic web browsing, but she just 'doesn't get it'.

 

[Magdalia]

As of 2021 the UK has 65,001,016 internet users which was roughly 96.6% at the time.

Lots of people have multiple internet identities: a lot of that total will be the same people counted more than once.

I'm in my early 50s and have never yet felt the need to get one -- if I'm very old, it won't be that many years till you are too

I'm in my 60s and have also never owned a smartphone. I have a dimphone that sends and receives calls and text messages, apart from that its most advanced feature is a torchlight.

 

[najaB]

Lots of people have multiple internet identities: a lot of that total will be the same people counted more than once.

Not that many. The way of deriving the figure isn't simply asking Facebook, et al "How many accounts do you have"?

 

[Magdalia]

Not that many.

How do you know that?

 

[najaB]

How do you know that?

Because the methods for tracking and counting users are quite specific and don't depend on getting usernames directly from tech companies. As an example, we use Pendo and couple of other tools to track unique visitors to our website and none of them tie into usernames so it doesn't matter if someone is using multiple online identities.

Yes, it is possible to get around them but the majority of users won't make the effort.

 

[Gloster]

My mother and her best friend would probably have been seen as two users. However, once her son had put the PC up, the friend found it too complicated so it was only looked at when her son made his fortnightly visits. The friend would have a list of things that she had found in the last fortnight and wanted to look up: the son would go through the list with her. If my mother was there, she would also look things up. The son was trying to get them to do the work, rather than doing everything himself, as he had a two-hour drive each way and would be doing odd jobs for both while there, so using the Internet increased the time he was away from home. Both had e-mail addresses set up for them, but I think my mother only used hers once or twice under supervision, possibly only as tests.

 

[Graham H]

Lots of people have multiple internet identities: a lot of that total will be the same people counted more than once.

I'm in my 60s and have also never owned a smartphone. I have a dimphone that sends and receives calls and text messages, apart from that its most advanced feature is a torchlight.

I have had a 'dimphone' for 20+ years and have never felt the urge to move on as I am quite happy that it makes calls and sends messages which is all I want. At home I have internet. Perhaps irrational but one reason I dont want a smartphone is that I would hate to become one of those people who walk down the street permanently linked to it and seem unable to function without one close at hand. I am sure the day will come when I have to purely because business makes it impossible not to. Going back, my old phone would hold a charge for well over a week back in the early 2000's, but having read many tales of woe on the prosecutions site about battery power issues I am even more loathe to use one or at least loathe to rely on one.

 

[najaB]

Going back, my old phone would hold a charge for well over a week back in the early 2000's, but having read many tales of woe on the prosecutions site about battery power issues I am even more loathe to use one or at least loathe to rely on one.

It's not impossible (or even difficult) to get a smartphone that will last several days on a single charge. The trick is to get a phone with a large battery (most common phones are around 3,000mAh though it's possible to get 10,000mAh and above) and, more importantly, turn off everything that's a 'nice to have'. Turn off mobile data and Wi-Fi unless you need them, turn of automatic sync, turn off Bluetooth and GPS unless you need them, etc.

I had a not excessively large phone from Blackview with a 8500mAh battery and it would easily go four days between charges, and that was without turning everything off as per above.

 

[Graham H]

It's not impossible (or even difficult) to get a smartphone that will last several days on a single charge. The trick is to get a phone with a large battery (most common phones are around 3,000mAh though it's possible to get 10,000mAh and above) and, more importantly, turn off everything that's a 'nice to have'. Turn off mobile data and Wi-Fi unless you need them, turn of automatic sync, turn off Bluetooth and GPS unless you need them, etc.

I had a not excessively large phone from Blackview with a 8500mAh battery and it would easily go four days between charges, and that was without turning everything off as per above.

So whats the point of having one if you have to turn everything off to make it last half as long as my 20 years ago phone would do when it would remain fully functional. Not sure if your reply was serious or a wind up but a full tank of fuel lasts forever in my car if I dont use it

 

[Cdd89]

Not that many. The way of deriving the figure isn't simply asking Facebook, et al "How many accounts do you have"?

I’ve no idea how the figure is derived, but it strikes me as something really hard (and arguably impossible) to calculate. There are lots of grey areas, e.g. whether mobile internet access counts or whether people need a traditional broadband connection.

 

[DelayRepay]

So whats the point of having one if you have to turn everything off to make it last half as long as my 20 years ago phone would do when it would remain fully functional. Not sure if your reply was serious or a wind up but a full tank of fuel lasts forever in my car if I dont use it

Mine will last about two days without turning stuff off, if I don't use it much.

But it's really not a problem because I put it on charge every evening when I get home. And while I'm out I sometimes top it up in the car, at work, on a train or where ever I get the opportunity. I don't really worry about not being able to last for several days between charges, because I don't have any need to do so.

 

[najaB]

So whats the point of having one if you have to turn everything off to make it last half as long as my 20 years ago phone would do when it would remain fully functional. Not sure if your reply was serious or a wind up but a full tank of fuel lasts forever in my car if I dont use it

You turn the features on as and when you need them, rather than having them turned on all the time even when you are not. Using the car analogy, just because your Porsche can do 180mph doesn't mean you have to drive that fast all the time.

 

[Bletchleyite]

So whats the point of having one if you have to turn everything off to make it last half as long as my 20 years ago phone would do when it would remain fully functional. Not sure if your reply was serious or a wind up but a full tank of fuel lasts forever in my car if I dont use it

The norm is to charge daily overnight. Thus as long as it has enough for one full day it is fine.

 

[AM9]

You turn the features on as and when you need them, rather than having them turned on all the time even when you are not. Using the car analogy, just because your Porsche can do 180mph doesn't mean you have to drive that fast all the time.

Become one of those people that gets to the gateline then fiddles around with their smartphone for 2 minutes ... logging in ... finding app ... opening app ... logging into app ... finding ticket etc.. - great fun for winding up those bullies that demand that everybody must be forced to use a smartphone for everything.

 

[SJL2020]

The most recent data I remember seeing from the FCA said there were still 1.2 million people in the UK who were unbanked. The data was from early in 2020.

 

[najaB]

The most recent data I remember seeing from the FCA said there were still 1.2 million people in the UK who were unbanked. The data was from early in 2020.

I suspect, but obviously do not know, that there will a significant overlap between those people and the circa 9 million functionally illiterate people in the UK.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Become one of those people that gets to the gateline then fiddles around with their smartphone for 2 minutes ... logging in ... finding app ... opening app ... logging into app ... finding ticket etc.. - great fun for winding up those bullies that demand that everybody must be forced to use a smartphone for everything.

No different to some people who get to the gateline then fiddle with getting their wallet out of their bag, then getting their ticket out of their wallet, then getting their railcard out of their bag etc etc.
People can be difficult regardless of the technology.
The rest of us will continue like we do with paper tickets - get it ready before you get to the gateline. That applies with paper tickets or with a smartphone.

 

[Magdalia]

The norm is to charge daily overnight.

I would never leave anything on charge overnight, in case it caught fire.

The dimphone gets charged every morning while I have breakfast.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I would never leave anything on charge overnight, in case it caught fire.

The dimphone gets charged every morning while I have breakfast.

That is somewhat paranoid, to be honest. Do you also switch off all electricals overnight? The thing most likely to cause a fire is not your phone but your refrigerator.

 

[skyhigh]

I would never leave anything on charge overnight, in case it caught fire.

So you unplug your fridge, freezer, broadband router, TV, microwave etc overnight too?

 

[najaB]

I would never leave anything on charge overnight, in case it caught fire.

The likelihood of that happening is vanishingly small. There was an issue with Samsung (Note 8?) devices catching fire but that was limited to specific batches of batteries and off-brand chargers.

 

[DelayRepay]

I would never leave anything on charge overnight, in case it caught fire.

My phone takes a couple of hours to charge. I put it on when I get in and unplug it before bed. Not due to fire risk really but because my charger's downstairs and I take my phone up to bed in case of an emergency during the night.

 

[Bletchleyite]

My phone takes a couple of hours to charge. I put it on when I get in and unplug it before bed. Not due to fire risk really but because my charger's downstairs and I take my phone up to bed in case of an emergency during the night.

There is a very obvious fix to that

 

[Magdalia]

That is somewhat paranoid, to be honest.

No, it is called risk management. Batteries and chargers are the causes of some electrical fires. There's no need to take the risk of overnight charging, so I don't.

So you unplug your fridge, freezer, broadband router, TV, microwave etc overnight too?

Yes for the TV, no for the fridge and the broadband router. I don't have a microwave.

 

[Butts]

People seem to have become slaves to their smartphones from my observations - they have certainly killed the art of conversation