How Often Does a Driver Forget to Stop at a Station and What Are the Consequences?

[1955LR]

I was on a Hereford train from New Street that overshot the old Bromsgrove Station. Not sure if the whole train passed the end of the platform. After a short stop we reversed back to the platform and carried on without any more delay. It was dark and wet at the time.

 

[dk1]

Obviously in these days of OTMR (black box) everything has to be done by the book. Gone are the days when after getting the signallers permission (where you needed to) you'd get the guard to keep a look out in the back cab & propel back. Now after seeking permission drivers have to change ends, return to the platform, then change ends again before proceeding. This can all take a considerable amount of time. It's sometimes better to have a fail to call (FTC) & set the passengers down at at a subsequent or additional station call.

It all goes onto the drivers record & a lot then depends on the driver in question & his/her history. They will then usually go onto a plan. This includes extra observations, downloads & possibly extra training if its deemed necessary.

 

[ungreat]

As a layman, I would have expected this sort of arrangement on modern rolling stock:

1. Driver keys in a headcode or somesuch, so the train knows where it should be stopping en route.

2. If there’s no brake activation at (or shortly beyond) the usual braking point for a booked station call, an advisory warning pings in the cab, perhaps followed by a second, more urgent warning if the driver remains unresponsive.

Do systems of this nature exist on new trains?

Nope
Not at all .

 

[Efini92]

Here's a video of a northbound Voyager after having failed to stop at Tamworth. In this particular case it was allowed to reverse back into the station, it stopped within sight of the station so it didn't exactly have far to go.

Best way to do the walk of shame

 

[LAX54]

Had this one time a few years back getting a fast train out of Liverpool Street going Stratford, Romford etc. Quite a few people were standing up to get ready to get off at Romford including me but the driver never even slowed, went through Romford at full speed leaving many passengers looking at each other in much confusion!! Half way between Romford and Gidea Park the driver sheepishly apologised and stopped at Gidea Park to allow passengers to get off and have to catch the next train back one to Romford!!

Which is why (see earlier post) GA changed all the headcodes of services, so that Romford stoppers were class 2, non-stops were / are class 1
so you could have for example Stratford. Romford.Colchester.Ipswich (4 stops) running Class 1, and a train that call all stations en route except Romford, is a Class 1

 

[dk1]

Which is why (see earlier post) GA changed all the headcodes of services, so that Romford stoppers were class 2, non-stops were / are class 1
so you could have for example Stratford. Romford.Colchester.Ipswich (4 stops) running Class 1, and a train that call all stations en route except Romford, is a Class 1

Always makes me think when I get a 2KXX headcode on a Stansted-Norwich mate. Means I've got wampy stops in there somewhere.

 

[Parallel]

On the up platform at Colwyn Bay there is a sign: 'are you stopping at Abergele?'

There's also one of these at Treforest saying 'Are you stopping at Treforest Estate?'

The only train I've been on that skipped stations was an Exmouth - Paignton train - The CIS advertised it as calling additionally at Polsloe Bridge and St James' Park as the previous train had been cancelled, but it shot straight through both. To be fair, the driver may not have received the special stop order.

 

[6Gman]

I can also say that any clerical error resulting in a failure to call will result in tea, no biscuits.

(Or certainly did in my day.)

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

"Well they have loads of trains anyway down here..."* Pushes on regardless! Those were the days...

*To be fair, I think that comment was from the camera operator.

Quite possibly the driver was distracted by having company in the cab with him?
(They’re fascinating videos, but I wince when I watch the one where he’s hanging the camera out of an open guards door at solebar level. Bit of a numpty.)

 

[merry]

Not experienced it for a long time.
Back in around 1989-1991 (I guess), a cross-country Birmingham-Sheffield journey (Cl47 + 5 or 6 Mk 2s or 3s typically back then, i guess it was a Birmingham-Leeds service) sailed through Burton-on-Trent at linespeed, much to the confusion of quite a few passengers (since only some services called there, still only a limited number these days). Guard canme on the PA shortly afetr to apologise that the driver had forgotten we were booked to stop there. Pass had to catch the next one back from Derby...probably an hour or more added to their journey.
Have been on a (slightly late-running) train sitting in Haywards Heath station, with documents & laptop on the table, and a large case, when it was announced we'd be skipping all stops to Brighton...I was heading to Hassocks IIRC. Scrambled to pack it all away, given we only had a minute or less notice, only got off because another passenger kindly blocked the doors from closing for me. Was not best pleased at the notice given ...athough that was not the driver's error, just stops skipped to make up time, when there was a relatively close following service to take. Still bad to not announce until the last moment.

 

[the sniper]

Quite possibly the driver was distracted by having company in the cab with him?
(They’re fascinating videos, but I wince when I watch the one where he’s hanging the camera out of an open guards door at solebar level. Bit of a numpty.)

That was my feeling, at the previous stop I think he was going to stop where not booked and I think the camera operator says "you don't have to stop here"... Very little chat after that too.

 

[py_megapixel]

Various signs around the network are placed as an aide-memoir to drivers to remind them to think about their next stop, e.g:

-Stratford Platform 10 has a sign reading "Romford?"
-Leaving Stansted Airport towards London there is a sign reading "Stansted Mountiftchet?"
-Bolton Platform 3 has a sign that reads "Drivers: Where is your next stop?" (for Moses Gate/Farnworth/Kearsley)
-Pretty sure the ECML approaching Grantham (from Newark) has a "Grantham?" sign somewhere in the Barkston area

Sandbach (or possibly Holmes Chapel?) has a sign reminding drivers to check whether they stop at Chelford and Goostrey or not.

 

[Dren Ahmeti]

The most common locations for such occurences are either:

-Fast Lines out of London that have stations where most fast trains don't stop but some so (e.g. Watford, Romford, Stevenage, Slough)
-Lines with skip-stop patterns (e.g. Coventry corridor), particularly when there's an odd pattern at certain times of day

Various signs around the network are placed as an aide-memoir to drivers to remind them to think about their next stop, e.g:

-Stratford Platform 10 has a sign reading "Romford?"
-Leaving Stansted Airport towards London there is a sign reading "Stansted Mountiftchet?"
-Bolton Platform 3 has a sign that reads "Drivers: Where is your next stop?" (for Moses Gate/Farnworth/Kearsley)
-Pretty sure the ECML approaching Grantham (from Newark) has a "Grantham?" sign somewhere in the Barkston area

One at Didcot Parkway too that states “Driver, are you stopping at Radley?”

 

[RuralSquad93]

There are signs on the approach into Wellingborough in both directions that read 'Wellingborough - Check do you stop?!' Or words to that affect ..

 

[43066]

I can also say that any clerical error resulting in a failure to call will result in tea, no biscuits.

(Or certainly did in my day.)

That’s interesting.

I remember at my last place after a timetable change we had a spate of misprinted diagrams, missing out a station where every train in passenger service called (Waterloo East). This necessitated a call to the signaller to confirm stopping pattern, otherwise stopping was technically stopping out of course.

It really isn’t cricket to be issued with incorrect diagrams given how seriously errors by drivers are taken. Despite complaints the issue continued until a few drivers simply drove through without stopping, exactly as their diagrams required (and after making appropriate announcements).

Funnily enough the diagramming errors soon stopped after that!

 

[satisnek]

I haven't experienced a failure to call/overshoot for many, many years and certainly not at Willington, which must surely be one of the more 'forgettable' stations (7 trains per day in a 2tph service).

 

[py_megapixel]

If a driver overshoots their stooping point (e.g. they thought they were driving an 8 car train but actually have a 4 car, which can presumably happen if the driver's mind is occupied with something else) but is still fully on the platform, can the doors be released or is it necessary to reverse to the proper stopping point?

 

[zwk500]

If a driver overshoots their stooping point (e.g. they thought they were driving an 8 car train but actually have a 4 car, which can presumably happen if the driver's mind is occupied with something else) but is still fully on the platform, can the doors be released or is it necessary to reverse to the proper stopping point?

The one time I've seen this happen (train was usually an 8 car, was advertised as 8 car on the boards but turned up as a 4 car), the guard released the doors and just waited for everybody to dash up the platform. Admittedly this was at 5pm on a pre-covid weekday, but I wouldn't have thought repositioning would be desirable at all unless it caused a problem like blocking the ramp from being deployed. Especially as the driver would need to change ends twice.

 

[dk1]

If a driver overshoots their stooping point (e.g. they thought they were driving an 8 car train but actually have a 4 car, which can presumably happen if the driver's mind is occupied with something else) but is still fully on the platform, can the doors be released or is it necessary to reverse to the proper stopping point?

You would change ends & drive back if given permission. Never reverse. In the case you mention it would be absolutely fine to release the doors.

 

[MotCO]

If you had an 8-car train, with full walk-through facilities, and only 4 cars were on the platform, could you do selective door opening for the 4 cars on the platform and expect alighting passengers to walk through the train?

 

[zwk500]

If you had an 8-car train, with full walk-through facilities, and only 4 cars were on the platform, could you do selective door opening for the 4 cars on the platform and expect alighting passengers to walk through the train?

It can be done, although I think it's more usual for the guard to do a single door release as that's quicker to implement (if slower to board/alight) and carries less safety risk.

 

[_toommm_]

If you had an 8-car train, with full walk-through facilities, and only 4 cars were on the platform, could you do selective door opening for the 4 cars on the platform and expect alighting passengers to walk through the train?

Would the guard not open their local door (if it was on the platform), see the full train wasn’t accommodated, then do the buzzer code to draw forward (six buzzes IIRC).

 

[py_megapixel]

Would the guard not open their local door (if it was on the platform), see the full train wasn’t accommodated, then do the buzzer code to draw forward (six buzzes IIRC).

I think @MotCO may have been referring to a situation where the train overran by 4 cars (i.e. it was the rear 4 that were acommodated)

 

[_toommm_]

I think @MotCO may have been referring to a situation where the train overran by 4 cars (i.e. it was the rear 4 that were acommodated)

Ah, got ya.

 

[guard1]

Doesn''t happen often at my depot. Usually caused by random departures from normal workings on diagrams that catch out even the most conscientious drivers.

 

[duffers2324]

I have had a FTC once just before covid hit, was on my local train (Glasgow Queen St-Anniesland) we round the 15mph bend coming off the EnG mainline towards Ashfield, usually most drivers power up a little towards the end of the bend for around 30 secs or so before coming back off the throttle and slowing for Ashfield but this day driver kept throttle going and i was thinking hes leaving it very late to come off the throttle for the stop, next thing Ashfield sails past, a woman on the train was wanting off although i dont think i seen any people waiting on the platform, just as well my stop Possilpark and Parkhouse is just along the road and its easily back to Ashfield, first time i had ever known or been on the train when an FTC has happened.

 

[Driver2B]

If a driver overshoots their stooping point (e.g. they thought they were driving an 8 car train but actually have a 4 car, which can presumably happen if the driver's mind is occupied with something else) but is still fully on the platform, can the doors be released or is it necessary to reverse to the proper stopping point?

I did that a few weeks ago!

I had a little 4-car train (when I almost always drive 8- or 10-car trains) and I came into a station with a red signal at the end. I was focused on the red signal (which changed to single yellow on approach) and came to a nice stop at the 8-10 car mark, when I realised what I'd done!

I looked out of my window to see a hoard of passengers running up the platform!

I did apologise to the guard on arrival at my destination (drivers don't make announcements on my TOC, otherwise I would have apologised to them), but he was fine about it, commenting that the exercise was good for them!

On my TOC (apparently it's different on some others), if your passenger doors are fully accommodated (whether you've stopped long or short) (and you're not stopped over the magnet!) then there's no need to report it, and there's no need for any follow-up, investigation, discussion, etc.

 

[Bevan Price]

I have had one "forgot to stop", two "near misses", and seen one unintentional "miss". The first was in the steam age - travelling from Bolton to Manchester, the driver forgot to stop at the (now long-closed) Pendleton, not even reducing speed.

Next was an evening London to Liverpool service, one of the few that then called at Hartford. Driver almost forgot about the stop, then slammed on the brakes -- he just managed to stop but with 4 or 5 coaches beyond the platform. (Liverpool drivers often seemed in a hurry to get home on those late evening trains; loco was a class 90)

Then came a railtour, with a Class 85 returning from Scotland; driver had obviously forgotten about set-down stop at Earlestown, so steward pulled the cord, and already travelling at low speed, we managed to stop with rear of train in the platform.

Lastly, the driver tried to stop, but the pair of Class 150s slid slowly through Chapel en le Frith at about 5 mph due to poor rail conditions. He eventually stopped just beyond the platform, and after a little delay, he got permission to reverse into the station.

 

[Phil G]

Many years ago there were still one or two loco hauled services from Bristol to Swindon, I got one from Bath to Chippenham, this was a 47 with about 5 Mk1s and I was in the vestibule of the last carriage. Coming around the embankment after Thingley the train was still doing linespeed and I thought it was an enthusiastic driver but then it was obviously not stopping. At the last minute there was a full brake application and the train stopped with the last door on the platform ramp just where I was, I figured there would be a delay and jumped out. As I was leaving the train set back, then carried on.

 

[bigfoote]

Not on a train I was on, but when I worked gateline for South Central 20 odd years ago. Following disruption, a lot of Vic - Pompey fasts were given extra stations to replace cancelled service. A lot of SSOs meant it was almost bound to happen. I can imagine for drivers, having a diagram and a bit of paper with the stop order on, sailing through some stations only to be reminded of their error. As far as I can remember, an amnesty was granted from Connex higher-ups and no drivers were black marked for it.

I have however been on the opposite. A Brighton fast that thought he was a semi-fast and stopper after Worthing, being helpfully reminded by RPOs at East Worthing on a block and then running clear to Brighton.