How to confuse passengers

[talltim]

EMT seem have recently added automated announcements about splitting trains to their system. I noticed recently that there is an issue with the way the sections are spliced together, one section has coaches as the last word, the next section has coaches as the first word.
Today, When announcing the 16:54 XC service from Sheffield to Plymouth/Gloucester it got really messed up. The train was showing on the board as Plymouth and Gloucester, which was fair enough, but the announcement advised passengers to travel in the front 9 coaches for stations beyond Gloucester, with the rear (0!) coaches being detached at Gloucester.
When the train came in, it had Gloucester on the front, which is confusing, but it was the front 4 coach set that was terminating there and the rear 5 coach set carrying on to Plymouth. It said this correctly on the screens on the sides of the set and I confirmed it with the Train manager.
I managed to record most of the announcement the second time they played it, but missed the very beginning
https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=DEB2591C47894A10!1891&authkey=!AFvDRXADfFS9Fkk&ithint=file%2cm4a
As a matter of interest, this is the first time I've come across this Gloucester split, is it new? Does the train reverse there or is there a long wait while the font portion is got out of the way?

 

[bengley]

just sounds to me like it's been put into the system wrong.

 

[talltim]

Well, yes. But it would probably have been better not mentioning it at all!

 

[bb21]

Yes, that train reverses at Gloucester.

 

[Hardcastle]

What happens to the Gloucester detachment once there ?.

 

[bb21]

After reversal, the now front portion goes forward to Plymouth and the detached portion (originally at the front) goes back to Central Rivers as 5M64.

 

[bengley]

It worked 5M64 empies to Central Rivers depot near Tamworth

 

[Crossover]

If this is at Sheffield, hasn't it recently gained a new PIS?

 

[Parallel]

FGW have recently included trains splitting (carriages detaching) too and it can get confusing. E.g. on the boards it will appear as " & Weymouth" then "& Westbury" And quite often tells people after Temple Meads that the rear two coaches are continuing to Weymouth when it's actually the front two. I have also seen such "splits" displayed as "Westbury/Frome".

 

[TheJRB]

Yes, the EMT system seems to insert an extra "coaches" when no number is given. On most other Atos variants where no coaches are associated, Anne will say "Calling at... and xxx where the train divides. Please make sure you travel in the correct part of the train. Please travel in the front coaches of the train for... and xxx. The rear coaches of the train will detach and terminate at xxx." Although it's not particularly helpful, it's better than what you've recorded!

I did once here an announcement at Ashford which went "Please travel in the front 12 coaches of the train for... Please travel in the rear 6 coaches of the train for..." when obviously it was 6 and 6.

 

[MarlowDonkey]

just sounds to me like it's been put into the system wrong.

I was somewhat alarmed travelling on a Sunday evening from Bournemouth to Reading on Cross-Country to see that the on board display had the opinion that the train would stop at Reading West but head for Didcot and Oxford after that. The guy checking the tickets was able to confirm that the train was in fact going to Reading (General).

 

[Class377]

Forgive me, but...EMT to Plymouth? Are we getting confused with XC?

 

[TheJRB]

Forgive me, but...EMT to Plymouth? Are we getting confused with XC?

XC train but Sheffield is managed by EMT and therefore the PIS is their responsibility.

 

[edwin_m]

The Sheffield displays are also saying "Norwich &" for a Norwich train where two coaches go out of service at Nottingham.

 

[Minilad]

I was somewhat alarmed travelling on a Sunday evening from Bournemouth to Reading on Cross-Country to see that the on board display had the opinion that the train would stop at Reading West but head for Didcot and Oxford after that. The guy checking the tickets was able to confirm that the train was in fact going to Reading (General).

There have been quite a few Sundays where in fact that is correct and XC trains have been stopping at Reading West and not Reading due to engineering works

 

[PHILIPE]

FGW have recently included trains splitting (carriages detaching) too and it can get confusing. E.g. on the boards it will appear as " & Weymouth" then "& Westbury" And quite often tells people after Temple Meads that the rear two coaches are continuing to Weymouth when it's actually the front two. I have also seen such "splits" displayed as "Westbury/Frome".

Perhaps complciated due to reversal at Bristol TM. Which is front and which is rear ?

 

[HarleyDavidson]

I know how to confuse passengers. I when I stood up the other week on a 456 I put my hand on the CACU panel to steady myself and it announced that there would be an at seat catering service!

What on the Ascot line? I don't think so.

 

[O L Leigh]

I find that passengers don't generally need any help to increase the sum total of their confusion.

O L Leigh

 

[hounddog]

I find that passengers don't generally need any help to increase the sum total of their confusion.

O L Leigh

Indeed. Rail staff do that consistently well.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I did once here an announcement at Ashford which went "Please travel in the front 12 coaches of the train for... Please travel in the rear 6 coaches of the train for..." when obviously it was 6 and 6.

The best one for this is the 0740 London Charing Cross to Ramsgate and, er, Ramsgate.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/W09754/2014/09/26/advanced

 

[D6975]

The best one for this is the 0740 London Charing Cross to Ramsgate and, er, Ramsgate.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/W09754/2014/09/26/advanced

At least they usually announce the back portion as being for Sandwich, rather than Ramsgate. At least they did at Ashford when I was this Summer.

 

[Tetchytyke]

At least they usually announce the back portion as being for Sandwich, rather than Ramsgate. At least they did at Ashford when I was this Summer.

I've heard them announce it as Ramsgate and Ramsgate at London Bridge, but can't speak for anywhere else.

 

[tsr]

There have been occasions with Southern stations and trains advertising services to Brighton & Brighton, which is a bit confusing (one portion fast then forming another service, another stopping, or something similar). However, in general, they & SWT (eg. at Clapham Junction) seem to get the CIS screens & announcements to do the right thing, including advertising "false" destinations of stopping services if needed. However, the same cannot necessarily be said at London Overground stations where splitting Southern services call before they divide en-route. For example, I have known an evening peak 3-way split train (1726 London Bridge to Horsham/Tonbridge/Reigate) to be displayed as "Horsham & Tonbridge" or "Horsham & Reigate" at Norwood Junction.

I guess it just depends on the human controller noticing it as much as the ease of use of the software, though with various special CIS hotline numbers given to the staff of at least some TOCs, it can only surely be a matter of time before these things are reported. Whether or not it's easy to deal with them is another matter! However, I am not claiming to be any expert in the actual rigid technicalities of programming CIS, as I am by no means fully familiar with everything involved.

 

[TEW]

The Sheffield displays are also saying "Norwich &" for a Norwich train where two coaches go out of service at Nottingham.

At Nottingham the services are advertised as Norwich & Empty to Depot. Not sure which is better.

 

[londonmidland]

The same thing happens at Nottingham.

 

[Hyphen]

The same thing happens at Nottingham.

Is there actually any EMT diagram where there's a planned unit split at Sheffield (regardless of how many "coaches" coaches)? I've not travelled on that route much in the past couple of years, but I've never known them do that... Occasionally I've known Northern bolt an extra unit on at Sheffield southbound, but not EMT.

 

[HowardGWR]

Trains on the BML calling at CLJ are announced at CLJ as rear for x y z and front for a b c. Pax for GTW generally are changing and come from far away, whereas of course it doesn't matter where they sit because the train divides after GTW somewhere (Haywards Heath is it?). The result is that all who have but the faintest notion of where these SE towns are, feel uneasy because they think they may be sat in the wrong bit.

 

[rail_guy]

I used to often get a train from Hither Green to London Charing Cross and the announcements confused me the first time, and I saw it confuse many other passengers.

The train to London Charing Cross would be on the screen and shortly before the arrival time, both the screens and platform announcements would announce that the next train at platform 5 was not for public use and ask passengers not to board the train.

The first time, I didn't board the train and then the Charing Cross service had disappeared.

I learned in future to board the train. I would always tell nearby passengers that it was in fact the Charing Cross service, despite announcements. They would sometimes be tempted on board, but usually remain on the platform and miss the train.

This was, of course, because the trains originated from a depot to arrive in London for the evening rush.

 

[455driver]

As they walk past the drivers cab after arrival at Waterloo I say "good morning everyone, its such a pleasure to see you all".

That confuses the hell out of them.

 

[talltim]

Is there actually any EMT diagram where there's a planned unit split at Sheffield (regardless of how many "coaches" coaches)? I've not travelled on that route much in the past couple of years, but I've never known them do that... Occasionally I've known Northern bolt an extra unit on at Sheffield southbound, but not EMT.

Not as far as I know. There was a planned split/join in platform 3 of Chesterfield a year or so ago. Easy job for the 'just in case' shunter with a pointy stick posted there for the duration