How was passenger travel handled during WW2?

[renegademaster]

Did you have to give an essential reason? Was it something that was part of the ration books?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

It was certainly dissuaded. Below is an example from the London Transport Museum which dates from c. 1942.


(Signage with "Is your journey really necessary?" strapline.)

 

[WesternLancer]

Did you have to give an essential reason? Was it something that was part of the ration books?

The 'Is your journey really necessary?' posters would suggest that you were discouraged rather than restricted.

Slow, delayed, disrupted and v crowded trains probably worked to put people off.

Your post makes me wonder what the arrangements would have been in terms of taking a train into a 'Restricted area' - those areas where unless you lived there people were not if I understand it correctly, permitted to travel into, or perhaps had to have v good reason to go into the areas concerned - eg chunks of the south coast ahead of the invasion of Europe I think were designated restricted areas. No doubt other places too.

 

[Gloster]

Your post makes me wonder what the arrangements would have been in terms of taking a train into a 'Restricted area' - those areas where unless you lived there people were not if I understand it correctly, permitted to travel into, or perhaps had to have v good reason to go into the areas concerned - eg chunks of the south coast ahead of the invasion of Europe I think were designated restricted areas. No doubt other places too.

As far as travelling to a restricted area went, there were checks at ’border’ stations to ensure that travellers were either local residents or had business in the area, for which they would have to show suitable documentation. I believe that there were checks at Inverness and Fort William stations as the whole area north and west of the Firth of Lorn and the Great Glen was a restricted area. As far as the south was concerned, Restricted Area (No 2) was a ten mile strip that ran from Lands End to the Wash, but it was only in force for a few months around D-Day. I believe that there were also restrictions on travel to the Isle of Wight, but that would have been easy to police.

 

[deltic]

It was dissuaded but people still flocked to the usual places for days out on sunny days etc overwhelming the service. My mother used to tell a story of a day out to Buxton from Manchester and having to queue for the train back. One of her friends played up a leg injury so they could jump the queue and people were left behind and had to get presumably very overloaded and slow buses back.

People worked long hours and received lots of overtime so there was money to spend and not a lot to spend it on so days out were popular even if you had to stand there and back on overcrowded trains.

 

[Sun Chariot]

My books, on the railways in WW2, are in the loft. From vague memory:

Railway operating priority was given to the essential freight and troop movements. The scaled-back passenger services would be held, to allow passage of those. Freight and military movements could be instigated at short notice (the planning & logistics made for fascinating reading in my books) and so passenger trains could be held at multiple locations and / or sent on a different route to their destination.

War factories played an essential role - many civilian workers would commute by rail, if their place of work was not local to them.

Casual travel was highly discouraged during the Blitz period; it was slightly relaxed as the war effort progressed (enabling people to take occasional & much-needed recreation); trains were infrequent and very overcrowded.

 

[WesternLancer]

As far as travelling to a restricted area went, there were checks at ’border’ stations to ensure that travellers were either local residents or had business in the area, for which they would have to show suitable documentation. I believe that there were checks at Inverness and Fort William stations as the whole area north and west of the Firth of Lorn and the Great Glen was a restricted area. As far as the south was concerned, Restricted Area (No 2) was a ten mile strip that ran from Lands End to the Wash, but it was only in force for a few months around D-Day. I believe that there were also restrictions on travel to the Isle of Wight, but that would have been easy to police.

Thanks for this helpful explanation. It would have been restricted area No 2 that my grandparents would have been telling me about then, as they lived on the south coast overlooking the Solent / Isle of White. I did wonder how easy it would be to manage a restricted area with such a large population, but for only a few months as you say I can see that it would have been achievable.

 

[Sun Chariot]

It would have been restricted area No 2 that my grandparents would have been telling me about then, as they lived on the south coast overlooking the Solent / Isle of White.

My maternal grandparents were billeted at Hilsea for a while during WW2 (grandfather was a Major). A few years ago, my parents visited my family. I drove them over Portsdown Hill (it overlooks Portsmouth and the IoW), my mother recalled where her parents had been stationed.

My wife has lived in these parts since latter 1970s - and she recalls much military activity on the hill during the Falklands conflict. I'd love to see inside the labyrinthine tunnels which - allegedly - criss-cross under the hill.

 

[03_179]

My Mum told me that her and her mother went to Whitby by train a couple of time (she was evacuated there) and my grandfather was stationed there.
Generally the trains were for troops.
She told me she once saw a soldier stood up with backpack fast asleep.
When they travelled up from London to Whitby it was direct and she slept across soldiers laps.
On one occasion her and her Mum arrived at Whitby and a Sargent met them off the train and instructed two soldiers to take their luggage to the accommodation my Grandfather had obtained for them.

 

[Cricketer8for9]

Somewhere in the depths of my memory is Evelyn Waugh writing about a slow and overcrowded train from the West Country. I think the short answer will be slow, dirty and delayed.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

One reference source I've seen (= "Railways in Wartime" - Tim Bryan - Shire Books (2011)) suggests that the following measures were all variously adopted in order to try to suppress demand for non-essential rail travel...

• Introduction of emergency timetables,;

• Suspension of holiday trains and excursion trains;

• Cheap tickets abolished;

• Abolition of first class on suburban trains;

• Withdrawal of restaurant cars;

• Curtailment of certain express trains;

and

• Restriction on the use of sleeping cars to those travelling on government or military business only;

all to reinforce the core message that the primary role of the railways was no longer the conveyance of ordinary passengers but, instead, was to support the war effort.

 

[Snow1964]

There were also lots of workers factory commuter trains, from towns where people could find lodgings to the big wartime factories. Of course things like ammunition, bombs and ordnance tended to made in remote areas.

Even today if you go exploring in places like Pembrey country park, will find bits of concreted in rails where explosives were transferred to the mainline trains from the narrow gauge in the dunes. The site was used in both world wars, and in 1917 had over 4000 workers (was over 3000 in WW2), so needed workers to be brought in daily.

Haven't got any Railways at war books to hand, but there were a few stations that saw huge numbers compared to sleepy peacetime numbers. Some stations were also added for wartime workers eg Upper Halliford in Surrey

 

[norbitonflyer]

During the War my mother's family divided their time between London (my grandfather worked at the Woolwich Arsenal) and a village near Okehampton (where my mother and her siblings had moved to live with their aunt for most the duration, attending the local grammar school). My grandmother in particular shuttled back and forth between her husband and her children fairly regularly, but there were also occasional family gatherings in the London house, for Christmas for example. My aunt's comprehensive diary of the period, supported by frequent letters back and forth, never mentioned any legal restrictions on travel (although there were physical problems, like when a wheel fell off the school bus, which had seen better days).

In particular, although most family members took the direct Southern Railway train from Waterloo to Okehampton, there appeared to be no problem with my uncle, then in his early teens, travelling by his favourite Great Western. Nor did he have to get any special permit to do a grand tour of Devon's railways on the eve of his 14th birthday (the last day to take advantage of child fares). My aunt even has an account of his mystification at the strange apparition at the head of the train on one occasion when he was prevailed upon to travel by Southern to help his mother with the luggage. This was, I suspect, one of the first Bulleid Pacifics.

 

[Gloster]

I don’t think that rail travel was officially restricted, but the resources were redirected towards traffic that served the war effort. That meant that there were fewer coaches, fewer pathways, less choice, etc. available for those travelling for their own purposes. If you had to travel you accepted that you might have to spend the whole journey standing in the corridor next to a soldier stinking of cheap tobacco and finally arrive several hours late. The discouragement was that, by necessity, the general travelling public were at the bottom of the pile of priorities and if they didn’t like it, they could either lump it or (preferably, as far as the authorities were concerned) refrain from travelling.

 

[Taunton]

Speaking with those actually there, there was little actual control of the passengers offering. There were large military movements, many of which seemed handled by scheduled services rather than specials. Trains were overloaded, which had not been experienced before. There was not a lot of optional travel, though when my grandmother travelled round the country to visit various new-borns, etc, it seems she always "Got a seat", a (paranoia, actually) which she retained for the rest of her life ... I believe she may have gone First Class then, which overcame most issues. It was only +50% in those days, not sometimes many times other fares as now.

There was also still a surprisingly comprehensive service. The main line trunk services were indeed overloaded, but lesser lines continued much as before with a couple of clerestories, where you could likely have a compartment to yourself.

After 1945 one could make comparison with Continental European services, which showed that actually Britain had got off very lightly. I think the number of locomotives actually written off by enemy action was almost in single figures.

 

[WesternLancer]

My Mum told me that her and her mother went to Whitby by train a couple of time (she was evacuated there) and my grandfather was stationed there.
Generally the trains were for troops.
She told me she once saw a soldier stood up with backpack fast asleep.
When they travelled up from London to Whitby it was direct and she slept across soldiers laps.
On one occasion her and her Mum arrived at Whitby and a Sargent met them off the train and instructed two soldiers to take their luggage to the accommodation my Grandfather had obtained for them.

I regret not asking more relatives about train travel during the war when I would have had the chance.

My late auntie worked as a secretary in the city of london and would have commuted in from Ilford and I assume used the LNER every day for that.

My dad went to primary school in Sussex a short distance by Southern Electric during the war - so again would have used the train most days I assume.

But I would have thought it would be long distance travel that would have been gruelling with examples like your mum's being regular occurrences.

 

[Rescars]

Apparently regular commuting was quite possible (subject to air raids, etc). As all fans of Dad's Army will know, "Mr Brown goes off to Town on the 8.21......"

 

[Dr_Paul]

My dad was an army conscript from 1943 and was billeted all over the country. From what he told me, nobody would have wanted to travel during the war unless the journey was really necessary. Trains were slower to save fuel, and could get extremely crowded: he was once late getting back to one depot because he couldn't get across the compartment to the door on the platform side and had to travel to the next station to alight. On the other hand, he did travel on lines he'd never been on before, including Carlisle > Stranraer and lines in Northern Ireland. He managed to get a ticket from Castlewellan in Northern Ireland to Margate; the ticket collector at the destination was rather surprised when he saw it.

 

[yorksrob]

Apparently regular commuting was quite possible (subject to air raids, etc). As all fans of Dad's Army will know, "Mr Brown goes off to Town on the 8.21......"

I always heard it that he drove there on the A21 !

 

[Gloster]

I always heard it that he drove there on the A21 !

Not with petrol rationing. Don’t you know there’s a war on!

 

[Mcr Warrior]

As all fans of Dad's Army will know, "Mr Brown goes off to Town on the 8.21......"

The song's lyrics, as performed by Bud Flanagan, weren't actually penned until the late 1960's, so hardly definitive.

 

[StoneRoad]

Not to mention that the Luftwaffe were attacking the railway network, directly and indirectly.

Damage from air raids could be extensive, but trackwork was usually repaired relatively quickly - rolling stock & locomotives were not always so lucky. [An exception to that was the damage to the Romney Hythe & Dymchurch by work related to PLUTO]

IIRC several railway stables were badly damaged

 

[StephenHunter]

She told me she once saw a soldier stood up with backpack fast asleep.

I can believe that. Soldiers will sleep anywhere and anytime they can.

I believe that a lot of the personnel on the East Anglian airbases would head into London when on leave passes. Many of them were close to stations, like North Weald and Hornchurch.

 

[infobleep]

During the War my mother's family divided their time between London (my grandfather worked at the Woolwich Arsenal) and a village near Okehampton (where my mother and her siblings had moved to live with their aunt for most the duration, attending the local grammar school). My grandmother in particular shuttled back and forth between her husband and her children fairly regularly, but there were also occasional family gatherings in the London house, for Christmas for example. My aunt's comprehensive diary of the period, supported by frequent letters back and forth, never mentioned any legal restrictions on travel (although there were physical problems, like when a wheel fell off the school bus, which had seen better days).

In particular, although most family members took the direct Southern Railway train from Waterloo to Okehampton, there appeared to be no problem with my uncle, then in his early teens, travelling by his favourite Great Western. Nor did he have to get any special permit to do a grand tour of Devon's railways on the eve of his 14th birthday (the last day to take advantage of child fares). My aunt even has an account of his mystification at the strange apparition at the head of the train on one occasion when he was prevailed upon to travel by Southern to help his mother with the luggage. This was, I suspect, one of the first Bulleid Pacifics.

Fascinating. So nice you still have the diaries and letters. I've read some war time diaries. Very interesting to read what day to day life was like.

Going back to the timetables. When I look through my Bradshaw from April 1944, it doesn't feel like many trains were removed.

I know some areas don't a full timetable printed but generally it still seems busy for the period.

 

[Gloster]

Going back to the timetables. When I look through my Bradshaw from April 1944, it doesn't feel like many trains were removed.

Pretty well all the summer dated and extra trains disappeared, as did many rush-hour only ones. The basic need for people to go to work and basic living purposes continued, but going off for other purposes was much more difficult. Holiday destinations were largely full of servicemen doing their training, evacuees or workers from offices and factories that had been dispersed: even if you got a room, you probably couldn’t get on the beach as it was wired off. Similarly, large scale entertainments and events did not occur, so there was not the heavy flows that these required. (Yes, no football: how did we survive.)

 

[infobleep]

Pretty well all the summer dated and extra trains disappeared, as did many rush-hour only ones. The basic need for people to go to work and basic living purposes continued, but going off for other purposes was much more difficult. Holiday destinations were largely full of servicemen doing their training, evacuees or workers from offices and factories that had been dispersed: even if you got a room, you probably couldn’t get on the beach as it was wired off. Similarly, large scale entertainments and events did not occur, so there was not the heavy flows that these required. (Yes, no football: how did we survive.)

To be fair, no pun intended, this is the April 1944 Bradshaw, so even without the war it wasn't summer time.

They did cease all restaruant carriages, once again, during that month.

 

[Rescars]

My dad was an army conscript from 1943 and was billeted all over the country. From what he told me, nobody would have wanted to travel during the war unless the journey was really necessary. Trains were slower to save fuel, and could get extremely crowded: he was once late getting back to one depot because he couldn't get across the compartment to the door on the platform side and had to travel to the next station to alight. On the other hand, he did travel on lines he'd never been on before, including Carlisle > Stranraer and lines in Northern Ireland. He managed to get a ticket from Castlewellan in Northern Ireland to Margate; the ticket collector at the destination was rather surprised when he saw it.

D L Smith records that, by 1940, the number of troops stationed in Northern Ireland meant that the regular passenger services to Stranraer were inadequate to cope with the numbers going on leave. To cope with this, an additional return service was provided daily to both London and Cardiff. Apparently both trains were made up to 16 coaches and each had a buffet car. Due to lack of siding accommodation at Stranraer, one of these mammoth trains was worked daily through to Ayr for servicing (approximately a 100 mile round trip ECS). Presumably private passengers had to make do with the timetabled services with the extra trains being reserved just for military personnel.

 

[Calthrop]

I recall hearing a little from my mother (born 1921) about her WW2 rail-travel experiences (Dad was "elsewhere" for most of those years -- in the Merchant Navy). Mum died not at a great age; and long ago vis-a-vis now -- wish I'd asked her for more reminiscences on the subject, assuming that she'd have been willing to oblige. While not that extremely rare bird, a genuine female railway enthusiast; Mum had some appreciation of the joys of the rail. For much of the war, her employment was as a telephonist: civilian status, but working for the Army -- much time spent at the immense military-"gear" depots on the Shropshire & Montgomeryshire line -- Nesscliffe comes to mind. While thus assigned, she was in lodgings in Oswestry: from context, it would seem that she must have been conveyed to and fro daily, by Army motor transport. Wish that my asking her whether she had experienced any travel at all on the S & M: had occurred -- but it didn't.

Her family home was in Chester. Re travel on leave, between Oswestry and there: she recalled that while the branch trains between Oswestry and Gobowen (she was rather taken with these -- 0-4-2T-worked auto-trains) were acceptable enough to travel on -- no horrendous crowding -- main-line travelling conditions could be nightmarish. She also spoke with some nostalgic approval, of the Llangynog branch and its fine, often spectacular, scenery. Again "from context", I'd reckon that her use of this line would have been "for fun", on free days. This would chime in with mention in posts upthread: of recreational (broadest sense) rail travel having been discouraged, but not outright forbidden -- tacit recognition, maybe, on the part of authority, of its usefulness in keeping people's morale up.

J.I.C. Boyd, in his book of rail reminiscences re his earlier life, Saga by Rail -- Great Britain and Isle of Man: would seem to give some confirmation re the above. Circumstances were such for Boyd, that his WW2 Army service was all in Britain and of the "rear-echelon" variety -- it would seem that he got a relatively generous amount of leave, in which he was able to do a fair bit of rail-related exploration. One has the picture that in the war years, travel on country branch lines especially, was usually not too traumatic -- the truly bad overcrowding and disruption was largely a thing of more major rail routes: one might figure that on more remote branches, wartime passenger services were not immensely more sparse than peacetime ditto, had been.

Have just recalled a boss of mine in a job a number of decades ago -- much of his service in the conflict concerned, had been in the Cambrian Coast area: where passenger services were, it seems, significantly reduced from peacetime status; and general situation then on the over-burdened railways, was apt to create a good deal of delay and "randomness". He had unloving memories of long waits and uncertainties at the junction of Afonwen -- which he and his chums accordingly dubbed "If-And-When".

 

[snowball]

that extremely rare bird, a genuine female railway enthusiast;

Off topic but I believe the first known train spotter was a girl who recorded details of trains on Brunel's then new line out of Paddington.

 

[Ted633]

Reminds me of a story by my late Grandfather. Travelling on a (above ground) District Line service from Hounslow. Train had come to a stand, presumably due to a signal, when the unmistakable sound of a V1 was heard. Not sure how doors would have been released (or even slam doors), but everyone very quickly was in the cess next to the line until it had past over, fortunately without going silent.
Don't recall he said how busy the train was or the reason for travel, but he would've been about 14/15, so possibly a school commute.