How will passenger flows change with Crossrail?

[hwl]

Really I'd have never considered changing at West Hampstead worth considering. And Thameslink takes longer compared to the Jubilee line between West Hampstead and London Bridge

Thousand did consider it and used it daily filling up eastbound trains so there were capacity issues at Waterloo (see other's Surbiton comments), London Bridge and Canada Water, hence Crossrail is game changer for those south of the river to Canary Wharf. Similarly it will help relieve the DLR Greenwich - Canary Wharf capacity issues.

 

[AM9]

There's also the possibility that people whose local station is on the West Anglia Main Line will go to Stratford instead of Liverpool Street.

That would put the current 4tph peak service under stress, and platform 11 space would be tight.

 

[Rail.Fan]

Has it been mentioned if Crossrail will eventually be 24 hour? It would be a massive help I’d imagine if it was.

 

[Class 170101]

Has it been mentioned if Crossrail will eventually be 24 hour? It would be a massive help I’d imagine if it was.

A viable chance on a Friday night but I would say NR would never allow it on a Saturday night simply because Maryland East, West and Forest Gate Jns would become very difficult to maintain as it is open constantly from 04:40 Monday until 01:15 Sunday and 06:00 (sometimes 09:00) Sunday until 01:15 (sometimes 00:01) Monday and also Thameside freight dependant currently. If you opened it Saturday night there would have to be some difficult choices about access on Sunday evenings all around that area to maintain the directly affected junctions but also the indirectly junctions as services are either diverted away to other routes reducing their maintenance time or potentially cancelled and replaced by bus and it won't just be users of TfL that see disbenefit to this bus replacement, passengers travelling beyond the GLA's boundaries will also be affected without seeing the benefits of overnight services on Friday and Saturday nights operated by Crossrail should they ever happen.

 

[Ianno87]

Has it been mentioned if Crossrail will eventually be 24 hour? It would be a massive help I’d imagine if it was.

A viable chance on a Friday night but I would say NR would never allow it on a Saturday night simply because Maryland East, West and Forest Gate Jns would become very difficult to maintain as it is open constantly from 04:40 Monday until 01:15 Sunday and 06:00 (sometimes 09:00) Sunday until 01:15 (sometimes 00:01) Monday and also Thameside freight dependant currently. If you opened it Saturday night there would have to be some difficult choices about access on Sunday evenings all around that area to maintain the directly affected junctions but also the indirectly junctions as services are either diverted away to other routes reducing their maintenance time or potentially cancelled and replaced by bus and it won't just be users of TfL that see disbenefit to this bus replacement, passengers travelling beyond the GLA's boundaries will also be affected without seeing the benefits of overnight services on Friday and Saturday nights operated by Crossrail should they ever happen.

If it did happen, most likely Paddington-Abbey Wood (I.e. TfL infrastructure) only, with bi-di running in the tunnels where necessary.

 

[Class 170101]

If it did happen, most likely Paddington-Abbey Wood (I.e. TfL infrastructure) only, with bi-di running in the tunnels where necessary.

This would certainly be easier to implement though I'm not sure where you disperse to from Paddington on a Saturday night. The same equally though maybe not so bad at Abbey Wood but it might not actually relieve the Central Line at night as for example why take Crossrail from Bond Street to Liverpool Street then be forced to change to it at Liverpool Street for NE London?

 

[Ianno87]

This would certainly be easier to implement though I'm not sure where you disperse to from Paddington on a Saturday night. The same equally though maybe not so bad at Abbey Wood but it might not actually relieve the Central Line at night as for example why take Crossrail from Bond Street to Liverpool Street then be forced to change to it at Liverpool Street for NE London?

Good points, unless Paddington/Liverpool Street were used as hubs for night buses.

The main benefits would be South East London - get folk out to Woolwich/Abbey Wood for onward night buses.

 

[itfcfan]

A viable chance on a Friday night but I would say NR would never allow it on a Saturday night simply because Maryland East, West and Forest Gate Jns would become very difficult to maintain as it is open constantly from 04:40 Monday until 01:15 Sunday and 06:00 (sometimes 09:00) Sunday until 01:15 (sometimes 00:01) Monday and also Thameside freight dependant currently. If you opened it Saturday night there would have to be some difficult choices about access on Sunday evenings all around that area to maintain the directly affected junctions but also the indirectly junctions as services are either diverted away to other routes reducing their maintenance time or potentially cancelled and replaced by bus and it won't just be users of TfL that see disbenefit to this bus replacement, passengers travelling beyond the GLA's boundaries will also be affected without seeing the benefits of overnight services on Friday and Saturday nights operated by Crossrail should they ever happen.

For the uninformed (myself included) what are the issues that make a 24hr Crossrail service more difficult to implement than the 24hr service on Thameslink (Bedford to Gatwick Airport via Farringdon and London Bridge)?

 

[Horizon22]

This would certainly be easier to implement though I'm not sure where you disperse to from Paddington on a Saturday night. The same equally though maybe not so bad at Abbey Wood but it might not actually relieve the Central Line at night as for example why take Crossrail from Bond Street to Liverpool Street then be forced to change to it at Liverpool Street for NE London?

Paddington to Reading has an overnight GWR hourly service; 0034, 0134 and 0334. And of course night buses.

 

[matt_world2004]

Paddington to Reading has an overnight GWR hourly service; 0034, 0134 and 0334. And of course night buses.

Didn't it used to have an 2:30 service that was removed to enable crossrail related possessions

I think there would possibly be a business case justification for an hourly Paddington HL to Heathrow Crossrail service running through the night. And possibly.an hourly Paddington to Reading service.

1. When Crossrail opens there will in all likelihood be a later wind down of service the current last trains to Hanwell from London Paddington of 23:18 will be in the long term politically unacceptable . The last train going west from Paddington at 23:40 is also quite early and I think tfl will push in the long term for a regular service until about 00:30
2. Ealing Broadway, Southall,Hayes and the Heathrow stations are currently staffed 24/6 anyway for night GwR services and because of fire regulations in the Heathrow tunnels.
3. The early departing tfl Rail services to Heathrow of 04:40am combined with the last train getting to Paddington at 00:40 once you factor in depot moves is almost in spread over territory (last train gets to old oak at 01:03, first train leaves old oak at 04:02) .
4. Significant amounts of Airport staff who either live in the Slough area or the Ealing broadway-Hayes area start/finish work before the first train arrives at Heathrow and after the last train leaves
5. There is no technical prohibition on all night running due to the four track railway between Paddington and Reading and the capability of single line working in the Heathrow tunnels.

I think because of the reasons above . You could probably justify a limited all night service. The additional costs would be smaller than other lines having an all night service and the airport creates demand for it.

 

[Railwaysceptic]

That would put the current 4tph peak service under stress, and platform 11 space would be tight.

That would depend on how many people decide to take that route. The (fairly) new service from Meridian Water to Stratford has never been overloaded and could absorb a very large increase in patronage. It's going to be interesting to see what happens.

 

[Class 170101]

For the uninformed (myself included) what are the issues that make a 24hr Crossrail service more difficult to implement than the 24hr service on Thameslink (Bedford to Gatwick Airport via Farringdon and London Bridge)?

No 24hr Thameslink on a Saturday night to allow for maintenance of key junctions on Saturday night. The only time available to maintain the Thameslink tunnels is something like 01:40 to 09:10 on Sunday morning looking at current timetables. The GEML is open most nights except Saturday and Sunday night as I alluded to in my previous post due to it being on a key freight route. So you could run Stratford to Shenfield quite easily but it wouldn't get you to Liverpool Street. The key junctions at Maryland and Forest Gate need maintaining otherwise they would fail and Saturday night especially is when it gets maintained.

Paddington to Reading has an overnight GWR hourly service; 0034, 0134 and 0334. And of course night buses.

But again not on a Saturday night which is what the Underground ran before Covid 19. They of course didn't run overnight Sunday to Thursday.

 

[Snow1964]

I suppose in theory the maintenance closure could be Sunday night and early hours of Monday instead of Saturday night. But if that is practical is a different question.

However recently TfL have been changing (reduced) some night bus frequencies on Friday and Saturday to match other nights, so not sure if they have changed policy on providing a night service in recent months (the PR spin only highlights improvements and is very quiet on reductions).

But of course these policies ebb and flow depending on how much money the mayor wants to spend, as an example at one time was going to be hourly night service around Kingston loop (and that had same problem discussed here about when is maintenance done).

My limited observation suggests nowadays Friday mornings can be quietest loadings (possibly less than Sunday morning), but I don’t want to go too far off topic whilst discussing passenger flows.