How will the rail companies entice passengers back after this is all over?

[nidave]

will there be lower single and return fares, more railcard types etc?

 

[westv]

They'll probably put ticket prices up!

 

[packermac]

I would assume the government (who after all has all the TOC's on management contracts) will not want to encourage unnecessary travel until such time a vaccine is found. After that I would assume it would drift back and find its own level which may well be lower if more WFH and vastly higher unemployment rates prevail.

 

[squizzler]

More first-class style 2+1 coaches? I can see people being happy to buy a little more space around them now, even if they don't need all the trimmings associated with First.

I also reckon that mandatory seat reservation is now inevitable on all long distance services.

 

[83A]

The British public can be fickle and have short memories…

Trains will be rammed in no time with tired commuters*, drunk weekend revellers* and people off to watch the match*…..

* Other reasons for rail travel are available.

 

[Hadders]

They won't cut fares. I suspect some heavy promotional activity combined with advertising for key attractions and something like 'Love London' which I think was an advertising strapline after 7/7.

 

[HH]

It all depends on what the government want, as they'll be effectively running the TOCs.

 

[Luke McDonnell]

I would assume the government (who after all has all the TOC's on management contracts) will not want to encourage unnecessary travel until such time a vaccine is found. After that I would assume it would drift back and find its own level which may well be lower if more WFH and vastly higher unemployment rates prevail.

The problem with this approach as I have indicated before is that once the restrictions on seeing friends and family are eased will you be able to travel to see them? - not everyone has access to a car, you cant walk or cycle if they live too far away and some people cannot drive for medical reasons (e.g. epilepsy) so are we going to stop these people seeing their friends or family until a vaccine is developed/herd immunity is achieved and Covid 19 is no longer a threat to the human species - which could be 18 months or more away. Will seeing friends or family be considered a necessary reason for travel?

I have Asperger's syndrome/ASD and I have travelled to see my friend by train every weekend for years and doing it is very important for me mental wellbeing and enjoyment especially considering I suffer from a high degree of anxiety as a result of my condition and as you may expect the uncertainty of the current situation is not helping and even the possibility that I may have wait 18 months to see him again is concerning.

I also think of how we managed to cope in the past - the golden age of rail travel in the Victorian era which started in the 1830s - you have to remember at this time there were very few vaccines available (Smallpox was the first AFAIK) and antibiotics had not been invented, infectious disease was always a risk including things which were much nastier than Covid 19 but it did not stop this massive increase in railway building, increase in inter city travel and advances in technology during the Industrial Revolution - and then there were multiple pathogens to be concerned about today Covid 19 is the only concern.

And a bit OT when do you think we will be OK to see friends again - on this matter I was looking and Germany and the majority of thier federal Lander have not prohibited seeing friends and family in another household (Bavaria being the main exception) but Germany have done well by European standards and the R0 has not increased exponentially so far. If this can be permitted without the risk of driving the R0 above 1 it should be one of the first things to be permitted for mental health reasons especially.

I would assume the government (who after all has all the TOC's on management contracts) will not want to encourage unnecessary travel until such time a vaccine is found. After that I would assume it would drift back and find its own level which may well be lower if more WFH and vastly higher unemployment rates prevail.

The problem with this approach as I have indicated before is that once the restrictions on seeing friends and family are eased will you be able to travel to see them? - not everyone has access to a car, you cant walk or cycle if they live too far away and some people cannot drive for medical reasons (e.g. epilepsy) so are we going to stop these people seeing their friends or family until a vaccine is developed/herd immunity is achieved and Covid 19 is no longer a threat to the human species - which could be 18 months or more away. Will seeing friends or family be considered a necessary reason for travel?

I have Asperger's syndrome/ASD and I have travelled to see my friend by train every weekend for years and doing it is very important for me mental wellbeing and enjoyment especially considering I suffer from a high degree of anxiety as a result of my condition and as you may expect the uncertainty of the current situation is not helping and even the possibility that I may have wait 18 months to see him again is concerning.

I also think of how we managed to cope in the past - the golden age of rail travel in the Victorian era which started in the 1830s - you have to remember at this time there were very few vaccines available (Smallpox was the first AFAIK) and antibiotics had not been invented, infectious disease was always a risk including things which were much nastier than Covid 19 but it did not stop this massive increase in railway building, increase in inter city travel and advances in technology during the Industrial Revolution - and then there were multiple pathogens to be concerned about today Covid 19 is the only concern.

And a bit OT when do you think we will be OK to see friends again - on this matter I was looking and Germany and the majority of thier federal Lander have not prohibited seeing friends and family in another household (Bavaria being the main exception) but Germany have done well by European standards and the R0 has not increased exponentially so far. If this can be permitted without the risk of driving the R0 above 1 it should be one of the first things to be permitted for mental health reasons especially.

 

[farleigh]

I would assume the government (who after all has all the TOC's on management contracts) will not want to encourage unnecessary travel until such time a vaccine is found. After that I would assume it would drift back and find its own level which may well be lower if more WFH and vastly higher unemployment rates prevail.

The problem with this approach as I have indicated before is that once the restrictions on seeing friends and family are eased will you be able to travel to see them? - not everyone has access to a car, you cant walk or cycle if they live too far away and some people cannot drive for medical reasons (e.g. epilepsy) so are we going to stop these people seeing their friends or family until a vaccine is developed/herd immunity is achieved and Covid 19 is no longer a threat to the human species - which could be 18 months or more away. Will seeing friends or family be considered a necessary reason for travel?

I have Asperger's syndrome/ASD and I have travelled to see my friend by train every weekend for years and doing it is very important for me mental wellbeing and enjoyment especially considering I suffer from a high degree of anxiety as a result of my condition and as you may expect the uncertainty of the current situation is not helping and even the possibility that I may have wait 18 months to see him again is concerning.

I also think of how we managed to cope in the past - the golden age of rail travel in the Victorian era which started in the 1830s - you have to remember at this time there were very few vaccines available (Smallpox was the first AFAIK) and antibiotics had not been invented, infectious disease was always a risk including things which were much nastier than Covid 19 but it did not stop this massive increase in railway building, increase in inter city travel and advances in technology during the Industrial Revolution - and then there were multiple pathogens to be concerned about today Covid 19 is the only concern.

And a bit OT when do you think we will be OK to see friends again - on this matter I was looking and Germany and the majority of thier federal Lander have not prohibited seeing friends and family in another household (Bavaria being the main exception) but Germany have done well by European standards and the R0 has not increased exponentially so far. If this can be permitted without the risk of driving the R0 above 1 it should be one of the first things to be permitted for mental health reasons especially.

I think you make good points - particularly regarding mental well-being. It is impossible to say when restrictions will be lifted to the point where we can travel by train to see friends but my feeling is that it will not be too far in the future. Just a guess of course.

 

[Belperpete]

I also reckon that mandatory seat reservation is now inevitable on all long distance services.

When the government allows non-essential travel, all those people who have held off visiting friends and relatives, going to town to shop, going to the seaside, etc etc will jump at the chance. If the government is not careful, it will be like Easter on steroids. Road jams galore, packed trains.....

I struggle to see how the government is going to manage it. If you think they will be doing anything to encourage travel, you are sadly mistaken.

 

[StephenHunter]

What about advising people to only travel outside of peak times? Also, many in the higher-risk groups will likely avoid trains for a good while anyway.

 

[AM9]

What about advising people to only travel outside of peak times? Also, many in the higher-risk groups will likely avoid trains for a good while anyway.

Off-peak trains are timetabled for expected demand and consequently are usually a) less frequent, and b) may be shorter. So by forcing everybody except anytime and season ticketholders to travel on the off-peak trains would create more inadvertent close proximity cases than in the peak trains. Unless of course you are saying the 'everybody' is advised to travel off-peak. Peak-time trains would then be empty.

 

[StephenHunter]

I was talking about non-work travel. Also, many of the trains I've been on off-peak weren't that busy at all even before all this.

 

[yorkie]

will there be lower single and return fares, more railcard types etc?

When the pandemic is over?

I think they will do Railcard promotions, more Advance fares and perhaps some companies will offer cheap day ranger type fares valid on their networks.

I don't think walk up fares will decrease.

 

[geoffk]

Perhaps 3+2 seating will be phased out! There you are, a positive outcome.

 

[theironroad]

Perhaps 3+2 seating will be phased out! There you are, a positive outcome.

Highly unlikely to happen in terms of seat removal and replacement. However, there may be a campaign to discourage there use while SD measures stay in place.

 

[causton]

They will not need to - it is already worrying what will happen if everyone goes back to work and starts using the trains again immediately - how do you carry out social distancing on trains that are normally packed?

And this isn't exclusive to commuting - Saturday and Sunday can be just as busy with the amount of leisure travellers.

 

[yorksrob]

Off-peak trains are timetabled for expected demand and consequently are usually a) less frequent, and b) may be shorter. So by forcing everybody except anytime and season ticketholders to travel on the off-peak trains would create more inadvertent close proximity cases than in the peak trains. Unless of course you are saying the 'everybody' is advised to travel off-peak. Peak-time trains would then be empty.

That may be truer in the South East, where train lengths are more likely to vary between four and twelve carriages.

In other areas where lengths vary, there can often be more unused space off-peak.

 

[yorksrob]

They will not need to - it is already worrying what will happen if everyone goes back to work and starts using the trains again immediately - how do you carry out social distancing on trains that are normally packed?

And this isn't exclusive to commuting - Saturday and Sunday can be just as busy with the amount of leisure travellers.

People already working from home will continue to do so. Therefore there won't be all those who were commuting before, suddenly turning up.

 

[theironroad]

People already working from home will continue to do so. Therefore there won't be all those who were commuting before, suddenly turning up.

That's true enough that they won't all turn up on day one, but considering that many rush hour trains into central London make a sardine tin look roomy, it will only need 10% (not a scientific calculation, just illustrative) to start using trains and the current social distancing rules would be out of the window, any SD will still be pretty much impossible.

The tube and commuter trains into central London are a major stumbling block to seeing restrictions on workplaces eased while trying to do any form of SD.

 

[yorksrob]

That's true enough that they won't all turn up on day one, but considering that many rush hour trains into central London make a sardine tin look roomy, it will only need 10% (not a scientific calculation, just illustrative) to start using trains and the current social distancing rules would be out of the window, any SD will still be pretty much impossible.

The tube and commuter trains into central London are a major stumbling block to seeing restrictions on workplaces eased while trying to do any form of SD.

I think that we will end up doing what other countries do.

 

[StephenHunter]

A lot of companies will not bring everyone back in at once. Also, changing hours is possible.

 

[Hadders]

With retail starting to open up again there will be a need for more travel, both for workers and people going to the shops. At the moment retail is still restricted to essential only although we're now seeing DIY shops, takeaways etc starting to open.

We'll have to start seeing clothing shops open in the not too distant future. There's no reason why Primark, Matalan or M&S etc can't introduce social distancing measures like the supermarkets have. People need to buy clothes, especially for children who quickly grow out of clothes. The other side of this will be how you handle the transport side of things....

 

[StephenHunter]

The 2m rule is being looked at; the WHO rule is 1m after all. Also, just standing next to someone doesn't give you a disease.

 

[yorksrob]

I suspect that if a solution is found for the workers, it will be suitable for everyone else as well.

 

[theironroad]

I think that we will end up doing what other countries do.

Which is?

 

[yorksrob]

Which is?

It's not, not using public transport.

 

[theironroad]

It's not, not using public transport.

Oh, right. Thought you had a secret solution.

You tried driving into and parking in central London every day pre covid?

Not everyone can WFH and when those companies reopen that have furloughed staff, the roads would be chocker.

 

[Luke McDonnell]

What about advising people to only travel outside of peak times? Also, many in the higher-risk groups will likely avoid trains for a good while anyway.

Yes that is a point a lot of the older travellers are likely to be avoiding rail travel for a while (shielding) so I would think that would mean off peak trains at least might continue to be a bit less busier than normal along with people who are still nervous about going back into society in general so I would think that this would mean that once I start travelling again when restrictions are eased will I be more likely to be able to sit away from other passengers? - which I would to if possible.

I often travel from Liverpool South parkway to Chester to see my friend - I used to use the Merseyrail service but then switched to the TFW Halton Curve service when that started - on the TFW service I did not find it to difficult to sit away from other passengers as I travelled at the weekend and the trains where often lightly loaded except when the Chester races where on - I would have no problem sitting away from other passengers. Also that makes another point - with racing and other big sporting events/concerts off ATM that means that the trains will be even more lightly loaded. So for that reason I so certainly see a case for allowing non essential rail travel shortly after lockdown restrictions are eased to facilitate the ability for people to see friends and family as not everyone has access to a car and has friends and family who live in a reasonable walking distance. Also considering the risk of transmission and to rail staff from passengers carrying the virus this risk can be mitigated imo by the use of face masks and possibly temperature checking (which has already been suggested) to which the degree of risk can be substantially minimised. This combined with the new contact tracing app which I plan on using could make travelling by train for non work related reasons viable - no need to wait for vaccines or a treatment to reduce mortality. IMO in advance of a vaccine or an effective treatment we need to innovate to look at ways of having as much normality as reasonably possible whilst at the same time as keeping transmission low.

I also mentioned the TFW Halton Curve Liverpool-Chester service - has this currently been suspended due to the current Covid 19 service reductions

 

[yorksrob]

Oh, right. Thought you had a secret solution.

You tried driving into and parking in central London every day pre covid?

Not everyone can WFH and when those companies reopen that have furloughed staff, the roads would be chocker.

Nope, sadly not.

I do know that there are a lot of other countries dodging COVID infections, and lots of them rely on public transport. Watching what they do would be a start.