HS1 - Stratford to Liverpool Street

[hairyhandedfool]

Surely they'd have to be routed as "Not HS1" to indicate that they werent valid - as I believe many SE-priced tickets are?

Well, that would be logical, but like I say, I will double check.

 

[bb21]

If this validity is through the shourtest route rule, it opens up the question about validity on the tube through dual availability of LU/NR tickets between Stratford and Liverpool St discussed here: http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=38131&page=2

LU mileage is irrelevant as there is a defined NR mileage in the NRT, and this is what the Routeing Guide uses.

Likewise mileage between Stratford Regional and Stratford International on DLR is irrelevant as it is not part of the NR network. It can just be treated like a bus transfer or walking, which is treated as zero distance.

I will contact NXEA for formal clarification.

 

[Sleepy]

Can confirm that as far as NXEA is concerned (and Central line SRA - LST) Kent - London terminals route HS1 tickets are valid to LST. As previously stated Stagecoach etc. may not allow this from Feb 2012.

 

[bb21]

For all routes via Northfleet/Ebbsfleet, as long as it is valid on HS1, I cannot see any fare being barred from going into LST as it will still be no more than 3 miles longer than the shortest route.

 

[Edvid]

On the journey planner front, the Trainline-powered planners happily recognise Liverpool Street as an appropriate London Terminals station whereas the WebTIS planners only recognise it as part of a zonal group. I have no idea what the other journey planners do, except for the National Rail planner which lies in the first camp.

Although the walking distance between the Stratfords seems reasonable, has it been made clear whether or not the DLR will accept point-to-point tickets between Kent/Essex and Liverpool Street/St Pancras respectively?

 

[Mintona]

This is 100% valid. Had loads of complaints on Tuesday evening by people who had been told this at Stratford in the morning, and we are all at a loss as to why they had been told this. I hope all the barrier staff are aware now.

 

[radamfi]

Although the walking distance between the Stratfords seems reasonable, has it been made clear whether or not the DLR will accept point-to-point tickets between Kent/Essex and Liverpool Street/St Pancras respectively?

London Travelwatch have been in discussion about this matter and looking at the notes it appears the DLR will only accept tickets marked with a + sign.

 

[A60K]

Can confirm that as far as NXEA is concerned (and Central line SRA - LST) Kent - London terminals route HS1 tickets are valid to LST. As previously stated Stagecoach etc. may not allow this from Feb 2012.

It is permitted by the basic rules of the Routing Guide - on what basis could they not allow it?

 

[paul1609]

It is permitted by the basic rules of the Routing Guide - on what basis could they not allow it?

I'd guess its the old thorny "at which London Terminals are a London Terminals ticket valid" issue? That first occured when Thameslink opened up the then Kings Cross Thameslink station to Southern Region users.
This one ran and ran with up to a couple of years ago Southern TVMs issuing a London Terminals ticket when St Pancras International was requested and then FCC RPIs trying to issue a Penalty Fare. Eventually a compromise was settled on where a London St Pancras Int ticket was issued at the same price as the London terminals one.
I think the argument is that the route within 3 miles doesnt allow you to add additional terminals on. St Pancras is certainly within 3 miles of City Thameslink for Southern Customers.

 

[radamfi]

In order to ban the route to Liverpool Street, it would need to be explicitly mentioned in the relevant section of the National Rail site as the Thameslink issue is:

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/ticket_types/crossing_london.html#terminals

 

[blakey1152]

With regard to tickets to London Terminals is it permitted to travel
from say Abbey Wood to London Victoria travelling from Abbey Wood to London Bridge then using the Southern trains service from London Bridge to London Victoria?

 

[MikeWh]

With regard to tickets to London Terminals is it permitted to travel
from say Abbey Wood to London Victoria travelling from Abbey Wood to London Bridge then using the Southern trains service from London Bridge to London Victoria?

I don't think that would be valid using paper tickets because it is more than 3 miles longer than the shortest route between the two stations which would be travelling via Lewisham and Nunhead. However, you would certainly be able to use both routes on an Oyster card.

 

[John @ home]

With regard to tickets to London Terminals is it permitted to travel from say Abbey Wood to London Victoria travelling from Abbey Wood to London Bridge then using the Southern trains service from London Bridge to London Victoria?

I don't think that would be valid using paper tickets ...

I'm not so sure. The only mapped route between Abbey Wood and London Victoria is by map CT.

Map CT

Abbey Wood - Charlton - Lewisham - New Cross - London Group - London Victoria

http://www.atoc.org/clientfiles/File/Maps.pdf

Having reached the first station in London Group, London Bridge, it's not immediately obvious to me whether the permitted route(s) from there to London Victoria would be:

• London Bridge - Waterloo East - Waterloo - Clapham Jn - London Victoria
• London Bridge - Peckham Rye - Denmark Hill - London Victoria
• both.

 

[paul1609]

In order to ban the route to Liverpool Street, it would need to be explicitly mentioned in the relevant section of the National Rail site as the Thameslink issue is:

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/ticket_types/crossing_london.html#terminals

Yep I agree, but for many years the thameslink case wasnt specified.
I think the issue will eventually be resolved as zone based smarctcards will be used throughout the south east.

 

[jon0844]

Except Stratford International is too exclusive to be part of the zonal system.

 

[MikeWh]

Well this is a mess and a half. I decided to put Liverpool Street to Gravesend in to NRE to see what it offered. Most of the suggested journeys were priced at £14.00 and described as NXEA Liverpool Street to Stratford, METRO Stratford to Stratford International and SET Stratford International to Gravesend. The problem with this is that the DLR is not included according to Avantix as there is no maltese cross. The other option that came up was £17.00 and described as Underground to St Pancras and SET from there all the way.

Now, to try and buy it. SET is the default merchant but they want to charge £17.00 for the ticket that NRE said was only £14.00. According to WebTIS £17.00 is the only single fare option for that journey. Try to switch to NXEA and they will price it at £14.00 but still say that you should use the Metro (DLR presumably) between the Stratford stations. If it wasn't for the fact that the chances of being checked on the DLR were pretty much zero I'd be inclined to try this out to see what happens.