HS2 Station Designs Revealed

[swt_passenger]

Something is probably required for emergency escape in any case. It's reasonable to expect the area all around the station to become a prime development site, and a second entrance significantly increases the area that's accessible within say 5min on foot. It may also be the best place for facilities such as car drop-off and taxi ranks, so road vehicles don't get in the way of the main entrance.

I think all that you ask for will be included within the east end of the new building. The old Curzon St building will just be sitting there in the open space alongside.

 

[sprinterguy]

It may also be the best place for facilities such as car drop-off and taxi ranks, so road vehicles don't get in the way of the main entrance.

That's a very good point, seeing as the western half of the site looks like it'll be comprehensively pedestrianised. According to the HS2 plan map, you're dead right.

 

[matacaster]

Both seem a massive wasted opportunity - train sheds were built cavernous to allow dispersion of smoke, that design is no longer relevant in the 21st century. Both stations could have supported massive over station developments that would have helped pay for them and increased the chance that the scheme will actually get built in full.

ugh, like Birmingham New Street??

 

[GreatAuk]

They both look good to me - quite different, but both good (from the pictures at least)

ugh, like Birmingham New Street??

My thoughts too.

Plus, even if you did make it a nice light space with a higher ceiling than new street, if you ever want to rebuild bits of the station for whatever reason it's a lot harder if there's another building on top...

Why would they want to rebuild it? *crayon hand twitching* High speed through platforms at a lower level to take trains from Manchester and Leeds down to Bristol and Cardiff on a new high speed line . With 7 platforms there's plenty of room to do that and keep some terminating platforms too!

 

[route101]

The consultation leaflet suggests a planned service of 9tph which is presumably made up of:
3tph Birmingham - London
2tph Birmingham - Manchester
2tph Birmingham - Leeds
1tph Birmingham - Newcastle
1tph Birmingham - Edinburgh / Glasgow (alternate hours)

5-7tph of that capacity could be 400m trains with 2-4tph 200m trains depending on whether the Leeds services run via Sheffield or not.

With 7 platforms you should be able to reliably operate more than 9tph if needed so it gives capacity for an eventual service of something like 11tph:

3tph Birmingham - London
2tph Birmingham - Manchester
1tph Birmingham - Leeds (fast)
2tph Birmingham - Leeds (via Sheffield)
1tph Birmingham - Newcastle
1tph Birmingham - Edinburgh
1tph Birmingham - Glasgow

Birmingham to Scotland , how much quicker on HS2 i wonder . Only HS up to Crewe !

 

[The Planner]

Why would they want to rebuild it? *crayon hand twitching* High speed through platforms at a lower level to take trains from Manchester and Leeds down to Bristol and Cardiff on a new high speed line . With 7 platforms there's plenty of room to do that and keep some terminating platforms too!

Considering how high the platforms are going to be it would need some impressive engineering to get the lines down and underneath.

Birmingham to Scotland , how much quicker on HS2 i wonder . Only HS up to Crewe !

If Phase 2b gets built, HS to Golborne.

 

[deltic]

ugh, like Birmingham New Street??

While not over station Berlin Hautbahnhof incorporates over 40,000sqm of office space without looking awful. The redeveloped New Street station also shows what can be done - if no diesel trains used it, the station would be fine. HS2 is well over budget and the chances of going beyond Birmingham or at least Crewe diminish almost by the day. Unless major commercial developments can be incorporated to help pay for £1bn+ stations the scheme will struggle to be delivered. Far harder to kill off a project if there are third party developers involved who would have to be compensated.

 

[HumberSprinter]

Why make the project "hard to kill", it's always best to have to option of scrapping HS2 than being forced to build it. HS2 Ltd don't seem at all competent with how they handle things so far.

 

[Ianno87]

Both seem a massive wasted opportunity - train sheds were built cavernous to allow dispersion of smoke, that design is no longer relevant in the 21st century. Both stations could have supported massive over station developments that would have helped pay for them and increased the chance that the scheme will actually get built in full.

Over-site development now only tends to stack up financially (it is quite a significant upfront cost to provide as part of a railway scheme) where land/property values are very high, and there is little spare of it available. Think inner London, basically.

Interchange is basically surrounded by fields, and Curzon Street is bounded on a couple of sites by basically industrial 'brownfield' sites, probably ripe for development themselves.

 

[Hetlana]

The designs for HS2’s Curzon Street and Interchange Stations in Birmingham. Personally I really like Curzon Street and cannot wait for it to become reality.

http://www.constructionenquirer.com/2018/10/09/striking-hs2-midlands-stations-designs-revealed/
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...n-for-new-stations-in-birmingham-and-solihull

What I don’t understand is why Curzon Street is not being built to connect HS2 to the Crosscountry route - are the Birmingham-Edinburgh trains not going to connect up with Bristol like the existing CrossCountry trains?

 

[GreatAuk]

What I don’t understand is why Curzon Street is not being built to connect HS2 to the Crosscountry route - are the Birmingham-Edinburgh trains not going to connect up with Bristol like the existing CrossCountry trains?

Nope - but you're not alone in thinking that. It does seem to me that it's one area where hs2 could be massively improved - either have a new classic station adjacent to Curzon Street to allow interchange, or allow hs2 trains to run through somehow... But then that would cost a lot more money, and presumably some sums have been done and it wouldn't be worth it (not that that is in the public domain...).

I think it was previously proposed that there could be a link near Derby too, for the Leeds branch... Not heard anything about that for a while though.

Even though it does seem unlikely that things will change at this time, the amount of space around the site does seem to leave various possibilities open - by the time the station opens it will probably be surrounded by office blocks though...

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

asonable to expect the area all around the station to

Nope - but you're not alone in thinking that. It does seem to me that it's one area where hs2 could be massively improved - either have a new classic station adjacent to Curzon Street to allow interchange, or allow hs2 trains to run through somehow... But then that would cost a lot more money, and presumably some sums have been done and it wouldn't be worth it (not that that is in the public domain...).

I think it was previously proposed that there could be a link near Derby too, for the Leeds branch... Not heard anything about that for a while though.

Even though it does seem unlikely that things will change at this time, the amount of space around the site does seem to leave various possibilities open - by the time the station opens it will probably be surrounded by office blocks though...

For the benefits of other people: http://www.greengauge21.net/wp-content/uploads/Beyond_HS2WEB.pdf

HS2 must be ‘X-shaped’ to bring high-speed services to left-behind regions
Integrating the HS2 project into the national network could help close the UK’s productivity gap with other G7 economies and inject “rocket fuel” into the economy, a new report from Greengauge 21 has said.

The report, ‘Beyond HS2,’ argues that the UK’s rail strategy should have a specific objective of boosting productivity and proposes a transformation of Britain’s railways – from “hub-and-spoke” based focused on London to a fully integrated network that links a set of city-centre ‘hub’ stations.

As well as fully integrating HS2 into the national network, the organisation’s report asks for an upgraded fast route from Birmingham to Bristol Parkway designed to carry HS2 trains, which would then continue to the south west and South Wales – ensuring these areas benefit from high-speed rail.

Greengauge’s proposals would therefore see HS2 turned from its planned ‘Y’ shape into an ‘X,’ with a new connection in the West Midlands leading to HS2 trains operating from Cardiff and Bristol to the Midlands, the north and Scotland.

The report also calls for a major upgrade of the East Coast Main Line for the first time since the 1980s; new high-speed lines in Essex, East Anglia and Scotland, thereby achieving a 3h 15m travel time between Edinburgh and London; new direct rail services to Heathrow and Manchester airports; new east-west connections, bringing together Liverpool, Manchester, Leeds, Bradford, Sheffield, Newcastle and Hull as a collective economic unit; and plugging in left-behind places.

Greengauge 21 director, Jim Steer, commented: “Britain lacks a long-term national railway strategy beyond HS2. We need a plan to put rocket fuel into our economic productivity and today’s report sets out proposals to do so.”

Steer emphasised the importance of ensuring that no region of the UK is “left behind” by making sure the national railway strategy reaches all parts of the country.

He concluded: “What we have published provides a wealth of new analysis on connectivity strengths and weaknesses across the country. It is often said that rail needs a ‘guiding mind’ and we hope this report will show just what can be achieved by being prepared to think strategically.”

Responding, a spokesperson at the DfT said that whilst the department did not agree with all the recommendations in the report, it is still an “important contribution to the debate and underlines the need for HS2.”

They added: “The investment of £55.7bn in HS2 is on top of around £48bn from 2019 in the existing rail network. With Crossrail nearing completion and plans progressing on Northern Powerhouse Rail, we are ensuring the whole country has the connections it needs.”

I think there plan was to incorporate connect the eastern leg to the line at Kingsbury with a major upgrade of the line between Bristol and Plymouth to Kingsbury Via New Street or the Camp Hill Line. Personally I love this proposal and it’s bizzare they did not do this originally and still haven’t.
On Curzon Street why isn’t the link to Moor Street (by passageway) included in the design as well.

 

[edwin_m]

I wish they would put in passive provision for a link onto the Derby line somwhere around Kingsbury. It would basically need a bit of straight track suitably placed so a flying junction could be added later - something that ought to cost very little now but would be hugely difficult to modify later on. This would allow trains from the north-east to run via New Street and continue to Bristol or beyond - but it would require electrification of that route. There is now a willingness to look at junctions between HS2 and the existing network further north, but apparently not here.

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

From the Times

Underneath the railway arches: inspirational HS2 station design
Jonathan Morrison, Architecture Correspondent


October 10 2018, 12:01am, The Times

How Curzon Street station will lookGRIMSHAW ARCHITECTS/PA
Detailed designs for two stations on the HS2 rail route have been published, throwing light on a project hailed as a “once-in-a-lifetime” boost to the West Midlands.

The terminus at Curzon Street in Birmingham city centre will be the northern end of the high-speed line when it opens in 2026. It will enable more than 22,000 passengers a day to be whisked to London and back at up to 250mph. A second phase, which will extend HS2 in two branches to Manchester and Leeds, is expected to open by 2032.

Curzon Street, inspired by traditional railway arches, will become the first new station since the 19th century to run intercity services in the UK and will connect to existing tram, rail and bus routes.

A Grade I listed entrance building that dates from 1838 and served a former station on the site, near the New Street and Moor Street stations, will be retained and turned into a visitor centre and offices. There are also plans for 4,000 homes to be built near by. Andy Street, mayor of the West Midlands, said that it was a “once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to drive the growth of the region”.

A second terminus, the Interchange Station in Solihull, is intended to provide connections to Birmingham airport, the National Exhibition Centre and public transport throughout the West Midlands.

The two designs will be displayed at Birmingham city library for members of the public to comment as part of the planning process, with applications likely to be approved early next year.

“These stations will be catalysts for local jobs and new homes, as well as giving passengers access to thousands more seats, more services and better journeys,” Nusrat Ghani, the minister for HS2, said.

There was a lukewarm reaction to the designs from at least one leading architect, though. Alan Duncan said that the two proposals failed to reach the same heights as Victorian stations such as Sir George Gilbert Scott’s St Pancras or Isambard Kingdom Brunel’s Paddington.

“The newly released images of Curzon Street Station and Solihull Interchange are frankly disappointing,” Professor Duncan said. “Both lack a lightness of touch and the engineering, particularly at Solihull, is clunky. At first glance, the Interchange suggests a huge, middle-eastern garden centre.”

I wish they would put in passive provision for a link onto the Derby line somwhere around Kingsbury. It would basically need a bit of straight track suitably placed so a flying junction could be added later - something that ought to cost very little now but would be hugely difficult to modify later on. This would allow trains from the north-east to run via New Street and continue to Bristol or beyond - but it would require electrification of that route. There is now a willingness to look at junctions between HS2 and the existing network further north, but apparently not here.

Remember hs2 phase2b bill has been delayed so they could add the link? As they have delayed it so they can review the links.

 

[The Planner]

Original idea was to have the link at Castle Bromwich where the lines are pretty much level. Whether there is still "passive provision" or not I doubt many know, I'm guessing no. There was going to be a construction rail head at Kingsbury, between Water Orton and Kingsbury Jn, which connected on to the east spur but that got put in the bin a long time ago.

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

Original idea was to have the link at Castle Bromwich where the lines are pretty much level. Whether there is still "passive provision" or not I doubt many know, I'm guessing no. There was going to be a construction rail head at Kingsbury, between Water Orton and Kingsbury Jn, which connected on to the east spur but that got put in the bin a long time ago.

Thanks for the info. Didn’t know it was once on the cards.

 

[Chester1]

Remember hs2 phase2b bill has been delayed so they could add the link? As they have delayed it so they can review the links.

It was also delayed because brexit related legislation is hogging parliamentry time. The delay has been read as phase 2b being called into question, when its not about that.

I like the Curzon Street design. When will construction start?

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

It was also delayed because brexit related legislation is hogging parliamentry time. The delay has been read as phase 2b being called into question, when its not about that.

I like the Curzon Street design. When will construction start?

I heard when the royal assent happened that construction itself won’t be until 2020 for Curzon Street and HS2 starts in the Chilterns in early 2019. Preparation work has already started as Curzon Street.

 

[LOL The Irony]

I heard when the royal assent happened that construction itself won’t be until 2020 for Curzon Street and HS2 starts in the Chilterns in early 2019. Preparation work has already started as Curzon Street.

This is why HS2 Ltd needs to have the high ups sacked.

 

[edwin_m]

Remember hs2 phase2b bill has been delayed so they could add the link? As they have delayed it so they can review the links.

That's the links I referred to in the North. Castle Bromwich would be on Phase 1 so is covered by the Bill (Act) already passed.

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

That's the links I referred to in the North. Castle Bromwich would be on Phase 1 so is covered by the Bill (Act) already passed.

How about Kingsbury link proposed by Greengauge21?

 

[The Planner]

This is why HS2 Ltd needs to have the high ups sacked.

Why? Nothing could be done until the civils contractors got going and did the detailed design.

How about Kingsbury link proposed by Greengauge21?

Greengauge has no say in it, and why would it be needed if the Castle Bromwich plan is gathering dust?

 

[strawbrick]

The siteplans are:
Curzon Street
https://assets.publishing.service.g.../file/378424/C224-ARP-CV-DPP-040-226700_0.pdf
Interchange
https://assets.publishing.service.g...ile/529824/C224-ARP-CV-DPP-040-321300-FPD.pdf

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

You can see the former Curzon Street building from the second picture in this article:

https://www.birminghampost.co.uk/ne...irmingham-solhulls-hs2-rail-stations-15256464

Also document of Curzon Street design:

https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/...2_Curzon+Street_A5+Brochure_V1-compressed.pdf

and within the document it says:

In addition to the new station, separate plans are being progressed to redevelop the original Grade 1 listed Curzon Street Station building. The renovated building will house a visitor centre and office space that will be used by HS2 along with other organisations. Once in place, the building will serve as a community engagement hub for HS2.

Also from Page 10 you can see the former building.

 

[Girner]

Great architectural design for the white elephant line. Meanwhile, the rest of the UK network goes down the pan.
This is a vanity project and an absolute waste of money. In my opinion of course.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Why? Nothing could be done until the civils contractors got going and did the detailed design.

They still could have given the stations royal assent.

 

[Geezertronic]

Great architectural design for the white elephant line. Meanwhile, the rest of the UK network goes down the pan.
This is a vanity project and an absolute waste of money. In my opinion of course.

You're very much entitled to your opinion. Just like saying the M25 was a white elephant because the rest of the UK Motorway network goes down the pan - of course it's not true, but it doesn't stop a good whinge...

 

[LLivery]

The designs look nice but they aren't showstoppers. Curzon Street looks like an oversized Abbey Wood. Don't get me wrong, I like glass and wood, but it's not different.

Any development above would just end up awful. Birmingham New Street, Barcelona Sants and New York Penn are all horrible on the platforms.

Great architectural design for the white elephant line. Meanwhile, the rest of the UK network goes down the pan.
This is a vanity project and an absolute waste of money. In my opinion of course.

As long as you don't complain the next time you can't get a seat on West Coast Main Line.

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

As long as you don't complain the next time you can't get a seat on West Coast Main Line.

Or the East Coast and Midland to a lesser extent.

 

[muddythefish]

The consultation leaflet suggests a planned service of 9tph which is presumably made up of:
3tph Birmingham - London
2tph Birmingham - Manchester
2tph Birmingham - Leeds
1tph Birmingham - Newcastle
1tph Birmingham - Edinburgh / Glasgow (alternate hours)

So is Curzon Street a terminus or a through station or both ?