HST coach disposals

[fgwrich]

Saw before that some enthusiasts had been able to purchase the old seats from a carriage, would anyone know if Newport Sims would be likely to offer the same courtesy if asked?
(apologies if this is in the wrong place)

I doubt it - Sims seem very closed to selling stuff on sadly. They also act very quickly - Most of those Mk3s will now sadly be in the crusher.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Eastleigh may be a better shot

 

[cole_peter5@]

Hi Guys I know this forum is mainly for HST Coaches --- but does anyone know what has to 43018 is it still at Haymarket or has it gone for scrap, I know it's cab was used in the repairs to 43036
Peter.

 

[GWHST107]

I doubt it - Sims seem very closed to selling stuff on sadly. They also act very quickly - Most of those Mk3s will now sadly be in the crusher.

That’s a shame, Thanks anyway.

Eastleigh may be a better shot

Any way of finding where Mark 3s are going to be taken for scrap for future reference?

 

[Jamest29]

I wonder how many mk3s are left to go for scrap now

 

[cole_peter5@]

hi Guys ---- Any up date on 43018 anybody know of its where about it may be ---- Thanks Peter

 

[Merle Haggard]

I doubt it - Sims seem very closed to selling stuff on sadly. They also act very quickly - Most of those Mk3s will now sadly be in the crusher.

A condition of sale (for scrap) by the train leasing company concerned is that nothing from the stock is re-sold by the breaker, so Sims can't, rather than won't, sell.

 

[43096]

A condition of sale (for scrap) by the train leasing company concerned is that nothing from the stock is re-sold by the breaker, so Sims can't, rather than won't, sell.

I think we’ve discussed this previously on here in the recent past. Thing is, one-off sales to members of the public are not what these types of businesses are set up to provide. There also tends to be a sizeable “time waster” element to inquiries.

 

[Merle Haggard]

I think we’ve discussed this previously on here in the recent past. Thing is, one-off sales to members of the public are not what these types of businesses are set up to provide. There also tends to be a sizeable “time waster” element to inquiries.

Thanks - I had missed the previous references. My informant was actually treated cordially by Sims, and then tried speaking to the leasing company and eventually did get a reply, which was on the lines of 'We're pleased that they are conforming to our instructions'.
It's over 50 years since I ventured into a loco. scrapyard but I did have many later dealings, in my sideline of bus-dealing, (separate from my railway 'career') with the Carlton, Barnsley bus breakers. Sales of parts (cash) were always welcome to them, but they did feel that their hospitality was being abused by the characters that turned up for one small, trivial item and then spent all morning looking around their yard and taking notes/photos. Seemed to regard it as an admission charge...

 

[DB]

A condition of sale (for scrap) by the train leasing company concerned is that nothing from the stock is re-sold by the breaker, so Sims can't, rather than won't, sell.

While that certainly could be the case, are you sure it actually is in this case? Booths have definitely been selling on bits from Mk3s (so must be permitted to), and so far as I can gather this has included both Porterbrook and Angel stock.

It seems unlikely that different rules would be imposed on different scrapyards.

 

[bramling]

While that certainly could be the case, are you sure it actually is in this case? Booths have definitely been selling on bits from Mk3s (so must be permitted to), and so far as I can gather this has included both Porterbrook and Angel stock.

It seems unlikely that different rules would be imposed on different scrapyards.

Don’t get why the leasing companies care that much. It’s not like they haven’t screwed every last penny out of these 40-year-old assets already.

 

[Roger B]

Don’t get why the leasing companies care that much. It’s not like they haven’t screwed every last penny out of these 40-year-old assets already.

I think it's because they don't want images in the media of worn out (or worse) kit - potentially detrimental to corporate image and all that.

 

[DB]

I think it's because they don't want images in the media of worn out (or worse) kit - potentially detrimental to corporate image and all that.

If it was that there would be a ban on all scrapyards selling parts - and clearly there isn't in this case as Booths have been selling quite a bit.

 

[bramling]

I think it's because they don't want images in the media of worn out (or worse) kit - potentially detrimental to corporate image and all that.

How many non-rail-employees even know that leasing companies exist? And surely “old train no longer in service” is good publicity?

It seems like bloody mindedness to be honest. One wonders whether it’s a TFL thing rather than a leasing company thing. They’re always a bit precious over their brand. All the 315s have been operating TFL services.

 

[43096]

How many non-rail-employees even know that leasing companies exist? And surely “old train no longer in service” is good publicity?

It seems like bloody mindedness to be honest. One wonders whether it’s a TFL thing rather than a leasing company thing. They’re always a bit precious over their brand. All the 315s have been operating TFL services.

It might seem like bloody mindedness to you, but that's not really how companies work. More likely that the likes of Sims (particularly at Newport) dispatch stock to razor blades within days of it coming in - it simply isn't worth their while pulling the odd bit here or there because somebody wants to buy it. Think of it as a production line that outputs scrap. Add in that you then have to get payment, for a business that is not set up as a retail operation, access for people wanting to pick/collect items (H&S implications), the usual time-wasters (plenty of them) and it all stacks up to being very much not worth doing.

 

[bramling]

It might seem like bloody mindedness to you, but that's not really how companies work. More likely that the likes of Sims (particularly at Newport) dispatch stock to razor blades within days of it coming in - it simply isn't worth their while pulling the odd bit here or there because somebody wants to buy it. Think of it as a production line that outputs scrap. Add in that you then have to get payment, for a business that is not set up as a retail operation, access for people wanting to pick/collect items (H&S implications), the usual time-wasters (plenty of them) and it all stacks up to being very much not worth doing.

That's fully understandable, however allegedly the "issue" isn't Sims but the leasing company -- if that's actually how it is. Has the same issue not arisen at Booths as well, whose operation is more suitable for parts recovery?

 

[Malcmal]

That's fully understandable, however allegedly the "issue" isn't Sims but the leasing company -- if that's actually how it is. Has the same issue not arisen at Booths as well, whose operation is more suitable for parts recovery?

Many companies tell "white lies" in these circumstances to be diplomatic and in the hope to avoid directly offending people. But at the end of the day this is the world of business and commerce - people should realise how lucky it was that Dai Woodham (owner of Barry scrapyard for any of the younger members) was so tolerant in the face of so much liberty taking by various groups / individuals.

 

[colchesterken]

I dont get it, in the old days Soham yard set fire to trains to get rid of the interior
there was a pic in Rail of a DMU in a fire tunnel bit like a crematorium
But with new health and safety I assume that they would need to be stripped before crushing.
London underground sold off bits from the A60 at Acton open day, prices were a bit steep for scrap.

 

[43096]

I dont get it, in the old days Soham yard set fire to trains to get rid of the interior

Wasn't that to do with asbestos rather than anything else?

 

[Merle Haggard]

While that certainly could be the case, are you sure it actually is in this case? Booths have definitely been selling on bits from Mk3s (so must be permitted to), and so far as I can gather this has included both Porterbrook and Angel stock.

It seems unlikely that different rules would be imposed on different scrapyards.

I thought I mentioned in my post that the position had been confirmed by the leasing company, who (eventually) responded to say, amongst other things, that they were pleased that Sims were conforming to the laid down policy. It was relative to parts from a Class 315.
Different leasing could well have different rules.

 

[DB]

I thought I mentioned in my post that the position had been confirmed by the leasing company, who (eventually) responded to say, amongst other things, that they were pleased that Sims were conforming to the laid down policy. It was relative to parts from a Class 315.
Different leasing could well have different rules.

Which ROSCO was that?

 

[Royston Vasey]

I dont get it, in the old days Soham yard set fire to trains to get rid of the interior
there was a pic in Rail of a DMU in a fire tunnel bit like a crematorium
But with new health and safety I assume that they would need to be stripped before crushing.
London underground sold off bits from the A60 at Acton open day, prices were a bit steep for scrap.

Wasn't that to do with asbestos rather than anything else?

Quite so. It was done that way specifically because of "health and safety"!

 

[Merle Haggard]

Which ROSCO was that?

I thought my colleague said Eversholt but not absolutely sure - it was the leasing company that sold 315s to Sims a few weeks ago

 

[Royston Vasey]

Quite so. It was done that way specifically because of "health and safety"!

Several references to the firing tunnel and images of coaches before and after firing at Mayer Parry Snailwell Scrapyard here: https://www.railcar.co.uk/images/feature/snailwell-scrapyard

Picture of Class 120 vehicle after passing through the firing tunnel. Credit: Surface Stock, www.railcar.co.uk

 

[DB]

I thought my colleague said Eversholt but not absolutely sure - it was the leasing company that sold 315s to Sims a few weeks ago

Eversholt do own a lot of electric stock, so could be.

HST vehicles are mostly Porterbrook and Angel (with a few owned by First).

 

[bramling]

Many companies tell "white lies" in these circumstances to be diplomatic and in the hope to avoid directly offending people. But at the end of the day this is the world of business and commerce - people should realise how lucky it was that Dai Woodham (owner of Barry scrapyard for any of the younger members) was so tolerant in the face of so much liberty taking by various groups / individuals.

Sounds like you might be onto something with the white lie theory. As you say there wouldn’t really be the time to do component recovery at Sims as they seem to get started pretty much as soon as stock arrives. Booths on the other hand can often have stuff sitting around for ages.

 

[DB]

Do the scrappies strip out coaches, or are they just torn apart and material separated afterwards? I notice from photos that Booths seem to cut the ends of the the coaches first, whereas others appear not to.

 

[bramling]

Do the scrappies strip out coaches, or are they just torn apart and material separated afterwards? I notice from photos that Booths seem to cut the ends of the the coaches first, whereas others appear not to.

Booths seem to be a bit of an outlier, they seem to manually cut the vehicle with a flame first and then use the grabber to take away the bodywork. By contrast most of the others seem to just get going with the grabber.

From the pictures of the Pacers scrapped at Booths there seems to be some amount of stripping beforehand.

 

[supervc-10]

I would imagine that valuable components would be removed first? Parts that could be required as spares for stock still in service.

 

[DB]

I would imagine that valuable components would be removed first? Parts that could be required as spares for stock still in service.

Where that happens it's probably done before they are sent to the scrapyard.