HST door locking operation

[james-martin]

Hi all,

A little while ago I was travelling on a HST in the rear coach and noticed something that seemed to be incorrect. However, I might be misunderstanding the operation of the HST Central Door Locking (CDL) and I am hoping someone on this forum can allay my concerns?

My concern relates to the service pulling in to a station with a short platform. I was in the toilet cubicle when we pulled in to the station and knew we were not platformed. However, I heard the clunk of the central door locking releasing and thought, nah, that can’t be right. However, when I got out the door unlocked light was illuminated above the exterior door. Now, my understanding that part of the fitting of CDL included Selective Door Opening (SDO). If I am correct then it appears that a passenger could still open the door when not platformed.

Is this a deficiency in the CDL mechanism which is not as fit for purpose as it should be or was it a mistake by the Train Manager?

Now in this instance there was little chance of a fall, or indeed getting the door open as a tree was near enough growing through the window at the station in question but it made me wonder what the truth of the matter is.

Looking forward to hearing from someone in the know who can reassure me all was in order!

James.

 

[185143]

I know VTECs destination window labels tell you to ensure that the door you are about to alight from is platformed.

I hope you didn't flush in the station

 

[edwin_m]

CDL didn't include SDO as standard, though I believe some HST fleets have had it fitted since then. Where HSTs have always served a short platform there is a "grandfather right" allowing them to continue to do so, but they can't serve any other short platforms unless SDO is provided or the platform lengthened. So for example on the MML HSTs can call at Market Harborough despite the short platform, but couldn't call at Luton Airport Parkway as this was a new station, until the platform was lengthened.

 

[ainsworth74]

Isn't it only GWR HSTs that have had SDO fitted? In which case unless the OP was on a GWR HST then, as strange as it may sound, what happened is perfectly normal.

 

[cf111]

I don't think Virgin's HST's have CDL installed. At Falkirk Grahamston which they serve there are "Do Not Alight Here" signs to remind people that it's a bit of a drop

 

[Mugby]

A surprisingly high percentage of passengers don't know how to open an HST door anyway!

 

[grumblingalong]

When I travelled on VTEC recently I was mortified by a conversation with the TM (PRIV tickets get good conversations sometimes) about the short platforms on the highland mainline to learn they weren't SDO'd. In my part of the world a door on the secondary catch is a big thing, doors released when not platformed would probably be bye bye!

 

[Phil.]

Of course some of us sane sensible paid-up members of the common sense society do look out of the window before opening a manual door. It's a generation thing or perhaps Darwenism in action.

 

[sng7]

In fairness to open these doors you do have to stick your head out and look down to operate the handle so it makes it a lot harder to ignore the lack of platform

 

[najaB]

In fairness to open these doors you do have to stick your head out and look down to operate the handle so it makes it a lot harder to ignore the lack of platform

You do need to be facing outwards but I work by 'feel' rather than looking for the handle. That said, I do look down before stepping just because you never know what you're stepping onto (or not!)

 

[BestWestern]

I believe that East Midlands Trains' sets lack SDO, and do call at at least one short platform where all doors are released. CrossCountry I understand have a central SDO panel which allows either half of the train to be released. I'm unsure about other TOCs, but certainly when SDO is used on GWR/FGW services only the platformed doors are to be released. The SDO/CDL can malfunction, but it is a lot more reliable than it once was.

 

[edwin_m]

I believe that East Midlands Trains' sets lack SDO, and do call at at least one short platform where all doors are released.

Market Harborough as I mentioned, presumably waiting for a decision on the realignment before considering spending any money sorting it out. Beeston also has a short platform, the regular calls are Meridians but I think there may be the occasional HST too. Loughborough was extended for the Olympics (major training facilities there).

 

[louis97]

CDL didn't include SDO as standard, though I believe some HST fleets have had it fitted since then. Where HSTs have always served a short platform there is a "grandfather right" allowing them to continue to do so, but they can't serve any other short platforms unless SDO is provided or the platform lengthened. So for example on the MML HSTs can call at Market Harborough despite the short platform, but couldn't call at Luton Airport Parkway as this was a new station, until the platform was lengthened.

Yet they call at East Midlands Parkway on the slow line (4 car Platform) without SDO... Wonder how they manage that.

 

[whoosh]

Because you have to open the window and lean out to use the exterior handle to open the door, the likelihood is that you'd notice there isn't a platform at that door. That's why 'Grandfather Rights' aren't considered to be too dangerous.

 

[jopsuk]

how many of the stations that EC call at are too short? Is it just Falkirk?

 

[grumblingalong]

how many of the stations that EC call at are too short? Is it just Falkirk?

Think Highland Chieftain, many of the highland main line platforms are too short.

 

[SPADTrap]

Kind of laughs in the face of stop shorts and release being a big deal doesn't it?

 

[grumblingalong]

Kind of laughs in the face of stop shorts and release being a big deal doesn't it?

Exactly talk double standards :roll:

 

[Starmill]

Market Harborough as I mentioned, presumably waiting for a decision on the realignment before considering spending any money sorting it out. Beeston also has a short platform, the regular calls are Meridians but I think there may be the occasional HST too. Loughborough was extended for the Olympics (major training facilities there).

I think just 3 of 8 coaches fit at Langley Mill. They're all released though!

 

[EC123]

As mentioned, VTEC HSTs lack SDO. Generally, the Guard will dispatch from the rear most door of the platformed area when stopped at a short platform

 

[najaB]

Kind of laughs in the face of stop shorts and release being a big deal doesn't it?

Well it does and it doesn't. In a stop short and release there *should* be a platform under the door but there isn't. With a grandfathered short platform there was never supposed to be platform there - hence announcements, etc. can be made to that effect. Also, as others have pointed out, the passenger has to be facing the window to open the door (more likely they'll notice) and there's no chance that they'll be leaning against the door and it opens without them wanting it to.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Think Highland Chieftain, many of the highland main line platforms are too short.

If memory serves correct both Haymarket and Inverkeithing on the Aberdeen run also have short platforms.

And, of course, Lincoln central.

 

[james-martin]

Glad to hear it was not incorrect operation of an EMT set! My assumption was that when CDL was mandated that it would achieve the same levels as MUs and SDO. I guess the main issue comes when operating at night and poor exterior lighting as in the day its quite clear. Mugby, I could argue that the highlight of travelling on the rail network in late September and early October each year is watching newly arrived international students who stand confused by such manual doors . Especially as a partially sighted person I might easily open the door next to them and then open their door for them as well....

Edwin_,m I remember the short platform days of Loughborough well and was glad to see such a busy mainline station receive the facilities it deserved. The large numbers of Paralympic passengers having to use a mainline, staff access barrow crossing I guess was seen as a bit too embarrassing and 18th century Britain?! Very much a change for the better!

 

[ainsworth74]

My assumption was that when CDL was mandated that it would achieve the same levels as MUs and SDO.

I have a feeling that the CDL on HSTs (and other slam-door stock) was mandated before SDO was really a thing on the network so no-one was probably thinking about it.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Well it does and it doesn't. In a stop short and release there *should* be a platform under the door but there isn't. With a grandfathered short platform there was never supposed to be platform there - hence announcements, etc. can be made to that effect. Also, as others have pointed out, the passenger has to be facing the window to open the door (more likely they'll notice) and there's no chance that they'll be leaning against the door and it opens without them wanting it to.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
If memory serves correct both Haymarket and Inverkeithing on the Aberdeen run also have short platforms.

And, of course, Lincoln central.

Leuchars.

The GNER guards on the route were, I'm sorry to say, a little bit hit and miss with their announcements - had a few of the larger stations en route also being announced as having short platforms and to not leave via Coach B.

 

[scotsman]

how many of the stations that EC call at are too short? Is it just Falkirk?

Haymarket, Inverkeithing, Falkirk, Dunkeld, Pitlochry, Blair Atholl, Dalwhinnie, Newtonmore

Possible - Stonehaven, Montrose, Carrbridge

 

[route:oxford]

Haymarket, Inverkeithing, Falkirk, Dunkeld, Pitlochry, Blair Atholl, Dalwhinnie, Newtonmore

Possible - Stonehaven, Montrose, Carrbridge

Dunblane.

The power car and first 1st carriage stop beyond the platform.

 

[edwin_m]

Yet they call at East Midlands Parkway on the slow line (4 car Platform) without SDO... Wonder how they manage that.

Didn't know that... interesting.

 

[Crossover]

I have been on a HST at Market Harbrough and indeed some doors were off the platform

I believe SDO on GWR is done on a 'release all forward' and 'release all in rear' basis, which on the likes of the Pembroke Dock run involved the guards (two of them) doing a bit of running up and down the train as each station was different

 

[Crossover]

Here is the CDL panel on a GWR HST - there were a few flying open throughout the journey!

Apologies about the rotation!

 

[BestWestern]

I have been on a HST at Market Harbrough and indeed some doors were off the platform

I believe SDO on GWR is done on a 'release all forward' and 'release all in rear' basis, which on the likes of the Pembroke Dock run involved the guards (two of them) doing a bit of running up and down the train as each station was different

Try a trip to Hereford!