Hull Trains 180 on fire again.

[syorksdeano]

Going to be interesting how they cope. Usually they tell people to catch the Northern Service to Doncaster, but with Northern on strike......

 

[brompton rail]

Going to be interesting how they cope. Usually they tell people to catch the Northern Service to Doncaster, but with Northern on strike......

However there is an hourly Northern service between Hull and Doncaster (Sheffield) today, until dusk anyway! Hull trains have,in the past, advised travel on First TPE to Leeds and then East Coast.

 

[rg177]

Also 1E29, 19.36 Edinburgh-Kings Cross terminated at Newark at 00.22, 75 late. that would have been fun with that being the last southbound train to Kings Cross

1E27 1830 Edinburgh-Kings Cross didn't depart Newark until 00:40 so passengers will have switched.

 

[Tim R-T-C]

Going to be interesting how they cope. Usually they tell people to catch the Northern Service to Doncaster, but with Northern on strike......

Looks from RTT like most workings are pretty well covered, soundbound connections via Doncaster should arrive within 30 minutes of the expected time. However people won't have a seat, so LNER services are likely to be busier.

 

[Trainfan344]

Why do the GC sets not seem to experience a similar amount of fires?
Different maintenance regime? Lower utilisation? Luck?

GC are non-stop between Kings Cross and Doncaster/York meaning that the 180s probably don't need to do any heavy breaking, whereas the HT are required to thrash through Peterborough and up Stoke bank before a huge breaking effort for Grantham, calling at Retford as well before Doncaster. Might have something to do with it.

 

[tsr]

1E27 1830 Edinburgh-Kings Cross didn't depart Newark until 00:40 so passengers will have switched.

I believe it was a cross-platform interchange. Can't comment for how comfortable the conditions were on the trains themselves, though. Twitter leads me to believe that passengers on trains stranded away from platforms had a bit of a rough time in terms of aircon, toilets, etc.

 

[brompton rail]

Jim, the prospect of HSTs has already been discussed on here. The HSTs would probably not be able to keep to Class 180 timings and the additional crew training - combined with the outstanding 802 training, would make HSTs infeasible. Something like utlilising the stock to 'close' the fleet at Crofton might be a better idea.

I accept the argument that drafting HSTs into Hull Trains would be very disruptive and difficult, however to suggest that HSTs would struggle to keep to time is without foundation. After all LNER HSTs (with 9 coaches) manage Kings Cross to Doncaster (pass) in sub 90 minutes every day! HT would only need 5/6/7 coach HSTs anyway.

 

[DaiGog]

HSTs would be difficult as they are slam door, which has never been a feature of the Hull Trains operation. Re-training would be very time-consuming and costly.

Edit: I'd forgotten about the hired-in hauled set with 86101 some years ago.

 

[westv]

What about the GWR units they have used previously?

 

[DaiGog]

Apparently a loose clamp on the turbo, prompting a check on another set at Hull before it enters service later.

Correct. The affected vehicle was doused in fire retardant foam so will need some considerable remedial work to get it back into service.

The remaining set failed its checks and is en route to Crotfon.

 

[DaiGog]

What about the GWR units they have used previously?

They are now with Grand Central.

 

[DaiGog]

However there is an hourly Northern service between Hull and Doncaster (Sheffield) today, until dusk anyway! Hull trains have,in the past, advised travel on First TPE to Leeds and then East Coast.

A bit of everything is in use today - Northern, TPE and road transport at the Hull end, plus GC and EMT as well as LNER for the occasional service from Doncaster south.

 

[DaiGog]

I'm sure the root cause was probably mentioned in some obscure thread about five years ago, but any speculation as to a recurring reason the 180s are spontaneously combusting? Was it leaves getting in or a build up of some sort of combustible fluid?

Nope. Neither.

 

[AlexNL]

All trains out of service now. One will be back in service later.

Only the 15:31 to London and 19:48 to Hull are running today.

According to HT's service alterations page, these trains have now been cancelled as well.

 

[185]

Nope. Neither.

So...

aliens? pepsi max in the fuel tank?

 

[Erniescooper]

So...

aliens? pepsi max in the fuel tank?

I'm going to guess that the exhaust clamp on the turbo failed causing the three phase wiring above to melt in its tray

 

[Crossover]

I had seen a note from @Starmill this morning about the lack of HT services. I have to say, it did amuse me rather to hear it mentioned on Radio 2 at lunchtime travel saying that there were no Hull Trains services today due to a lack of available rolling stock!

 

[Crossover]

Thanks for the explanation. Could you tell me a bit more about what you mean by closing the fleet at Crofton?

A difficult week ahead for HT.

At a guess, I believe what they mean is to have the 180's start and end their day at Crofton rather than "outstabling" at the other depots

 

[Crossover]

I see the 21:33 Euston go Leeds is running with a 2 hour 22 minute delay. It's skipping Wakefield.

It looks like this service passed through Wakefield (from Kings Cross!) at 0228 - I can well imagine the only reason for it skipping the stop is that the station is probably locked up for the night.

On the plus, at least that service was stranded for 2 hours in a station (Peterborough) rather than in the middle of nowhere

 

[Failed Unit]

I didn’t think the 180s were that bad in terms of general reliability.

We have many trains with worse MTIN rates such as the pacer, class 700 to name a few. Admittedly probably should compare them with the voyagers of the same vintage which we can’t dispute the voyagers are much superior in terms of reliability.

Isn’t the problem with the 180s is when they fail they fail well. 2 fires, a dump of diesel (the Peterborough incident) as examples. But are they not around the 13k MTIN area. A number the class 700 would kill for.

 

[jon0844]

Correct. The affected vehicle was doused in fire retardant foam so will need some considerable remedial work to get it back into service.

The remaining set failed its checks and is en route to Crotfon.

So another few quid they've cost then!

 

[NoOnesFool]

So another few quid they've cost then!

I can't help but feel sorry for First Group. Hopefully the 802s will give them the reliability to channel funding into other areas e.g. website updates and improved Twitter feeds.

 

[Edders23]

which company had the 87 hauling MK3's a few years ago was that Hull trains or Grand central IIRC that ran to York instead but a similar hire for a period of months would be a solution if suitable stock and traction available

I'm surprised there is a siding left at grotsville to shunt it into they had removed a lot from the station area last time I was there

 

[Darandio]

which company had the 87 hauling MK3's a few years ago was that Hull trains or Grand central IIRC that ran to York instead but a similar hire for a period of months would be a solution if suitable stock and traction available

It was Hull Trains using 86101 between Kings Cross and Doncaster.

 

[jon0844]

I can't help but feel sorry for First Group. Hopefully the 802s will give them the reliability to channel funding into other areas e.g. website updates and improved Twitter feeds.

They better than anyone know/knew how bad they are.

 

[Darandio]

They better than anyone know/knew how bad they are.

Indeed. There is even suggestion in the thread of them being fondly remembered and the problems now are unfortunate. Where do they think the reputation came from!

 

[Edders23]

It was Hull Trains using 86101 between Kings Cross and Doncaster.

I think the 87 was the back up loco in case but they can be ruled out as they are contracted to Caledonian sleeper services these days or is that no longer the case ?

 

[Eyersey468]

I was talking to one of the Hull Trains drivers earlier and according to him the 180s were the only 125mph trains available at the time they were needed

 

[Shepley]

I was on the 20.33 LNER to Leeds last night. We left 15 minutes late. All went well until between Peterborough and Grantham the lights went off, the emergency lighting came on and we coasted to a stop in the middle of nowhere. And there we stayed for a long time. The staff were great - food and drink frequently offered in first class. The manager kept us updated at just the right intervals.

Eventually a Thunderbird was despatched to drag us to Grantham and beyond. At this stage a drunk woman decided to fall over in a vestibule leading to an extended stop in Grantham as paramedics and police attended (both were on hand following the earlier fire). She was checked out and stayed onboard to her destination of Newark where she was met by a police reception. All this no doubt blocked the only available line north.

The Hull Trains set was on the adjacent platform. No visible signs of damage but it was dark.

At Newark there was a delay as the Thunderbird was decoupled and power restored. Three LNER sets took the opportunity to stop and overtake us.

Then came the coup de grace - “this train is no longer stopping at Wakefield”. Off at Doncaster and taxi to Wakefield. I was one of the first off at Doncaster and joined 5 others in a taxi without too much delay. But there weren’t many taxis available, it was raining hard and those behind me looking for a transfer may have been in for a long wet wait.

I collected the car at Wakefield where, for once, there was no queue for the ultra slow car park payment machine and got home at 3.30 after a 21 hour day. My colleague going to Leeds and then a taxi to Skipton was held with other passengers for 30 minutes behind the barriers whilst taxis were sorted for those on the train(s) that overtook us at Newark and got to Leeds before us.

I am only an occasional visitor here and others are no doubt better informed but

- any airline with 2 engine fires on the ground in 6 months would surely no longer be flying the aircraft concerned for the time being

- very considerable goodwill could have been earned by keeping Wakefield Westgate open to process the delayed services. Dumping people into Doncaster at 2.15 in the morning with one person trying to organise taxis for dozens of passengers is frustrating to say the least.

 

[Stampy]

The train is now in the sidings and the track inspection shows it will be okay for trains in the morning. Apparently a loose clamp on the turbo, prompting a check on another set at Hull before it enters service later.

It was STILL there when I passed through Grantham at about 4pm today on my way back from Nottingham.