Hull Trains 802 to visit St Pancras?

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Verulamius

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Due to the closure of Kings Cross on Saturday and Sunday 5/6 June, Hull Trains are diverting to St Pancras again.


Will this be the first time that a class 802 has visited St Pancras?

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JonathanH

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swt_passenger

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And why were they running in diesel mode last time? With the OHLE available between St Pancras and Corby, surely they could run in electric mode?
Because as explained in the various MML threads about wiring and the future class 810s, the OHLE does not support the 125 mph speed the stock is capable of, the wiring is only rigged for 100 mph max.

The 802s are showing up a future problem with the 810s, unless the wiring upgrade catches up.
 
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Because as explained in the various MML threads about wiring and the future class 810s, the OHLE does not support the 125 mph speed the stock is capable of, the wiring is only rigged for 100 mph max.

The 802s are showing up a future problem with the 810s, unless the wiring upgrade catches up.

Then explain to me why, on the ECML, which uses the same type of OHLE system as the MML, trains can regularly reach speeds of 201 km/h (125 mph).

Surely, power limitations must be the issue then.
 

Domh245

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Then explain to me why, on the ECML, which uses the same type of OHLE system as the MML, trains can regularly reach speeds of 201 km/h (125 mph).

Surely, power limitations must be the issue then.

ECML and MML OLE are similar, but not identical. Couple of posts here (quoted from a different thread) explain the details of why MML isn't 125mph OLE capable.

No power limitations have been mentioned that I'm aware of
 

Hophead

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Were the 802s timed for 100mph or higher? Is it possible that the OHLE would not support raising of the pan on the move at high-speed? At the time, this would have had to be in the Bedford area; perhaps the new wiring north to Kettering could permit this?
 

swt_passenger

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Then explain to me why, on the ECML, which uses the same type of OHLE system as the MML, trains can regularly reach speeds of 201 km/h (125 mph)...
In addition to the reply by @Domh245 this post in the MML electrification thread shows photos of the problematic equipment:
 

Kite159

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Would certainly be a non advertised stop somewhere (Doncaster maybe) for the conducting driver and guard to board.

I guess they are not publically calling at Doncaster to aid social distancing for passengers for Selby towards Hull? I wonder how much revenue Hull Trains will be missing out on by not calling at Doncaster

I did one of the services last October time from Doncaster towards St Pancras and it was lightly loaded (max of 30 passengers in standard class, and the bulk of those passengers boarded at Doncaster)
 

_toommm_

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I guess they are not publically calling at Doncaster to aid social distancing for passengers for Selby towards Hull? I wonder how much revenue Hull Trains will be missing out on by not calling at Doncaster

I did one of the services last October time from Doncaster towards St Pancras and it was lightly loaded (max of 30 passengers in standard class, and the bulk of those passengers boarded at Doncaster)

It’s pretty busy today on the 11:47 Hull to St. Pancras. First Class is full in terms of seats you’re allowed to sit in. I think Standard is pretty much the same.

It’s quite a good tour though and certainly an interesting route.
 

Watershed

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It’s pretty busy today on the 11:47 Hull to St. Pancras. First Class is full in terms of seats you’re allowed to sit in. I think Standard is pretty much the same.

It’s quite a good tour though and certainly an interesting route.
Yep, the 15:48 to Hull (back working of that service) is also pretty busy. Virtually all window seats taken and quite a few aisle seats too. I think it would have been rammed if they'd made Doncaster an advertised stop, if those are the loadings they've attracted solely from Selby, Brough and Hull!
 

_toommm_

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Yep, the 15:48 to Hull (back working of that service) is also pretty busy. Virtually all window seats taken and quite a few aisle seats too. I think it would have been rammed if they'd made Doncaster an advertised stop, if those are the loadings they've attracted solely from Selby, Brough and Hull!
Probably wise that they didn’t as I believe it would have been the only direct services to London today.
 

ainsworth74

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I guess they are not publically calling at Doncaster to aid social distancing for passengers for Selby towards Hull? I wonder how much revenue Hull Trains will be missing out on by not calling at Doncaster
I think it's just a general "if we're the only train to London from Doncaster our service will be totally full and standing from Doncaster" measure. When they did it in 2019 they were fast from either Selby or Brough (as the one I did went via Goole, now that was a proper tour!).
 

rg177

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Yes it was an enjoyable journey on the 11:48 in First. £42 from Hull with a railcard wasn't bad at all.

New track for me on what's essentially the Sheffield avoider!
 

_toommm_

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Yes it was an enjoyable journey on the 11:48 in First. £42 from Hull with a railcard wasn't bad at all.

New track for me on what's essentially the Sheffield avoider!
Same for me too - lovely trip for £42 in First Class, and the sausage sani was nice too!
 

ainsworth74

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Isn’t this weekend touted as the last time KGX will be closed?
Well, I'm sure it'll be closed again or at least some part of the route to Kings Cross anyway! But yes, this is going to be the last major closure I suspect for a little while. So this weekend would have been the last chance for my money this summer. Though I'm sure at some point in the next few years it'll happen again. I happened a few times before now over the last five or so years.

I've always admired HTs determination to keep some sort of service on the road (unlike GC who usually just throw the towel in and don't bother even running a shuttle between say Sunderland and York). Which has led to all sorts of interesting diversion from going to the MML like this weekend to running over the North London Line via, I think, a reversal near Alexandra Palace, fly over the mainline, then another reversal before finally ending up in Westhampsted Thameslink and reversing again into St Pancras! That was good fun. Though I felt sorry for the passengers who hadn't clocked the diversion and were packing up preparing to leave despite there being the best part of an hour to go before we arrived :lol:
 

Peter749

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About running the 802 on MML Wires they would not do that because the staff driving them would not know where the Neutral Sections were and the trains only change systems when at a stand.
 

_toommm_

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About running the 802 on MML Wires they would not do that because the staff driving them would not know where the Neutral Sections were and the trains only change systems when at a stand.

They’re route conducted, plus neutral sections have a warning sign (I believe it’s a black sign for the warning, white sign for the start). The line light reilluminating means you’re past it.
 

Watershed

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Appeared to be a West Coast Railways Co route conductor on these services. Not sure how they sign St Pancras to Bedford/Leicester, but I'd rather not ask any awkward questions!
 

JonathanH

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Appeared to be a West Coast Railways Co route conductor on these services. Not sure how they sign St Pancras to Bedford/Leicester, but I'd rather not ask any awkward questions!
They are somewhat unlikely to know the electric supply. West Coast Railways operate railtours over the route south from Leicester - eg this one from Ealing Broadway to York https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-yorkshireman-16-10-21
 

bengley

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About running the 802 on MML Wires they would not do that because the staff driving them would not know where the Neutral Sections were and the trains only change systems when at a stand.
You need to know where Neutral Sections are no matter what traction you drive over a route. I have learned a route driving diesel trains and then subsequently signed electric traction and driven them over it with no additional training.
 

Class 170101

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I've always admired HTs determination to keep some sort of service on the road (unlike GC who usually just throw the towel in and don't bother even running a shuttle between say Sunderland and York). Which has led to all sorts of interesting diversion from going to the MML like this weekend to running over the North London Line via, I think, a reversal near Alexandra Palace, fly over the mainline, then another reversal before finally ending up in Westhampsted Thameslink and reversing again into St Pancras! That was good fun. Though I felt sorry for the passengers who hadn't clocked the diversion and were packing up preparing to leave despite there being the best part of an hour to go before we arrived :lol:
Many operators could learn from Hull Trains example.

Indeed for the diversion you speak of it was a reversal at Haringay, back over the Hornsey Flyover, Reverse again on the Down Slow then via Haringay Park Curve (rare passenger use), onto the T&H and then via the Tottenham Lines (again rare passenger use) to reach the MML, Reverse at West Hampstead Thameslink and then into St Pancras International, indeed it took around an hour to do all these moves.

I've also done the Class 86 working to Doncaster and Doncaster to Hull via Wakefield Kirkgate (Reverse), Pontefract Monkhill, Knottingley, Hensall, Goole and thence to Hull. This was during Hatfield Colliery slip and a (weekend) closure at Selby.
 

ainsworth74

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Indeed for the diversion you speak of it was a reversal at Haringay, back over the Hornsey Flyover, Reverse again on the Down Slow then via Haringay Park Curve (rare passenger use), onto the T&H and then via the Tottenham Lines (again rare passenger use) to reach the MML, Reverse at West Hampstead Thameslink and then into St Pancras International, indeed it took around an hour to do all these moves.
Yes that was it! Thank you :)
 

Clarence Yard

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Back in Anglia days, there was once an emergency block at Ferme Park and the 170 on one service went KX to Hull via Ipswich! Out of KX, reverse and up the incline to Camden Road, reverse and right away across the NLR to Stratford. Then GE main line to Ipswich, then Ely, then Peterborough and back on booked route. The Anglia drivers knew all the routes! Punters were happy.

The reason the 802 units don’t use the wires on the MML is that they are not passed to do so. COVID put paid to any electrical testing to get them cleared in time.
 

_toommm_

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Good on them for doing all these unusual diversions, especially the ones where you wouldn’t find anything but freight on the stretches of track they traverse.
 
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