Hull Trains seek to replace fleet with bi-modes

Discussion in 'Traction & Rolling Stock' started by Stats, 16 Aug 2015.

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  1. Stats

    Stats Member

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    Hull Trains have applied for a new track access contract for 10 years from 2019 so they can procure a fleet of 5 car bi-modes to be intoduced from 2020.

    www.networkrail.co.uk/browsedirecto...l Trains - Section 17 - Closes 28 August 2015

     
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  3. Starmill

    Starmill Events Co-ordinator

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    Should allow them to continue development of their Yorkshire Coast services too. More to Beverley then on to Driffield and Bridlington? Seems like a good move.
     
  4. Domh245

    Domh245 Established Member

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    That would imply that they are looking at either yet more 800 clones, possibly as a tag on to the GWR order for the SW fleet.

    So either they will need this 2019 refit anyway, or they will apply to the DfT for an exemption, presuming that the refit is to do with DDA.
     
  5. fgwrich

    fgwrich Established Member

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    To be honest, id have thought that was more than likely to have happend as a result of the delays with the DfT giving NR the Hull Electrification Job in return for a discount to the their beloved Hitachi's AT300s - We'll take on your electrification and give you discounted access to it, if you buy from our new pet train project.
     
  6. D365

    D365 Established Member

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    Why would Network Rail be purchasing AT300s?

    I'm guessing there's a possibility that the HT fleet is to be sourced from the 'option' units on the FGW/SW AT300 order.
     
  7. fgwrich

    fgwrich Established Member

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    Sorry, it's been a long day. But I meant as the original Hull Trains Electrification Project now seems to have been tagged onto NRs workload by the DfT for Hull Trains - but with the catch of that it wasn't going to be achievable in Hull Trains original timescale - , that it would be fairly likely that the DfT has offered Hull Trains in return for the delay a nice and generous discount on an AT300 option. As opposed to say, Hull Trains going away and purchasing their own design of rolling stock.
     
  8. 323235

    323235 Established Member

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    Are they proposing an entire fleet of 5 car units? Are they indicating a provision for all services to be doubled up?
     
    Last edited: 17 Aug 2015
  9. Stats

    Stats Member

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    If there was any doubt the fact that the application states they will be using the manufacturer's facility in Doncaster pretty much confirms they'll be bi-mode AT300s. The language used in the application is also similar to that used in their (FirstGroup's) application for East Coast Trains which has since been confirmed as the electric variant AT300.

    They would be proposing to order a fleet with more carriages if they were to double up every service. They do say they have the ability to double up key services.

    This all leaves the question, what next for the 180s?
     
  10. Robbies

    Robbies Established Member

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    As per the TPE thread http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=119507 I suspect that the class 180's wil all end up with Grand Central, unless they end up going to Arriva Trains Wales to work alongside the class 175's which would then free up some class 158's possibly.
     
  11. aformeruser

    aformeruser Veteran Member

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    Depends if Grand Central start running any more East Coast services, given the HSTs will be replaced by 180s from FGW and 180s won't be suitable for West Coast services due to being non-tilting.
     
  12. Yabbadabba

    Yabbadabba Member

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    I suspect that they a have one eye on the future with the signalling south of Doncaster supposed to be incab signalling ETCS and as the AT300s are designed to the new equipment, so it saves retro fitting and adapting the existing fleet, plus it will give the same breaking and accelerating curve as the VTEC ones so they can fit in better. The bonus of bi-mode is it doesn't matter has far or short the wires run as they can get to where they want.
     
  13. LNW-GW Joint

    LNW-GW Joint Veteran Member

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    This is Open Access. The DfT doesn't get involved.
    But probably linked to the privately financed FGW AT300 order.
    5 years is a long way away yet.
    A contract will be 2 years away at least.
     
  14. 47802

    47802 On Moderation

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    Indeed and possibly given potentially cheaper fuel costs on Electric, and perhaps better reliability of AT300's GC/Arriva might look to do the same at some point.
     
  15. jimm

    jimm Established Member

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    What has this got to do with the DfT? That's right, nothing. HT is an open access operation. And the only people who will be giving discounts on AT300s would be the people building them, namely Hitachi.

    As DAB_Move says above, when First Group first revealed the proposal to order AT300s for West Country services in March, they also agreed an option for up to 30 more sets, so this looks like being the first draw-down from those 30.

    http://www.hitachirail-eu.com/at300-for-the-west-of-england_156.html
     
  16. aformeruser

    aformeruser Veteran Member

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    All recent orders seem to have options for more. The 387 order had an optional for additional which has taken up for Gatwick Express and FGW.
     
  17. jopsuk

    jopsuk Veteran Member

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    contract options are a smart move. Allows flexibility
     
  18. WatcherZero

    WatcherZero Established Member

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    Locks in a unit price, meaning they don't have to negotiate it again for a follow on order.
     
  19. superalbs

    superalbs Established Member

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    Let's hope Cross Country orders some of these too, to replace the current low-capacity DEMUs they have in use.
     
  20. jopsuk

    jopsuk Veteran Member

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    At one point they were rather planning on the route to Hull being electrified sooner, not later, weren't they? Ordering bi-modes then is an acceptance of the reality.
     
  21. D365

    D365 Established Member

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    Since then though, Hull Trains has extended some of their services to Beverley, bi-modes (for now at least) means they won't have to give these up already.
     
  22. ainsworth74

    ainsworth74 Forum Staff Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Yes I believe they were targeting work starting at the end of 2014 with a view to it being place for City of Culture in 2017. Once than plan became un-viable it's been moved back after 2020 sometime.

    Plus, and in some ways I wonder if this isn't a bigger consideration, it means they can still take advantage of a range of diversionary routes around the ECML. HT have been quite keen to get to London no-matter the route. They've been down the full length of the MML to get to St Pancras before! Obviously they'll be more restricted depending on route clearances for AT300s but I can see Bi-Mode being appealing for that reason.
     
  23. D365

    D365 Established Member

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    Although if MML electrification had gone ahead (and when it does), [almost] all of that particular route will be workable by 'pure' electric units.

    - [Within the typical remit of clearance works, bearing in mind any future rolling stock requirement.]
     
    Last edited: 18 Aug 2015
  24. Domh245

    Domh245 Established Member

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    But it won't necessarily be workable by trains with 26m carriages
     
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