Hulley's of Baslow

[M803UYA]

They’ve sold it on to someone else, no point keeping it as the breeder won’t be coming back next year after the mess they made of it this year.

Didn't see that on ebay - they really don't hang around when they want something shifted, do they?!

 

[derbybusdepot]

Didn't see that on ebay - they really don't hang around when they want something shifted, do they?!

You really can't blame Hulleys. The bus just didn't go fast enough, any experienced operator starting a route on their doorstep could make such a catastrophic mistake.

The council don't help either, bendy roads, trees in the way, and that's before you get to the passengers taking too long boarding and alighting.

 

[Goldfish62]

You really can't blame Hulleys. The bus just didn't go fast enough, any experienced operator starting a route on their doorstep could make such a catastrophic mistake.

What, a schedule that a car driven in the middle of the night with no traffic couldn't keep up with?

The Breezer was a lesson in how not to start and operate a service. Quite honestly a compete embarrassment for an operator of Hulley's reputation.

 

[Deerfold]

What, a schedule that a car driven in the middle of the night with no traffic couldn't keep up with?

The Breezer was a lesson in how not to start and operate a service. Quite honestly a compete embarrassment for an operator of Hulley's reputation.

You may want to re-read @derbybusdepot's post. I don't think you'll find they disagree with you.

 

[northwichcat]

The council don't help either, bendy roads, trees in the way, and that's before you get to the passengers taking too long boarding and alighting.

I caught it from Hope station (when it was being operated by a closed top Enviro 400). The cheek of (around 6) passengers wanting to pay the driver! If they already had tickets the bus would have taken a minute less. Although, to be fair the service I caught was only a couple of minutes behind schedule.

Given the bus arrived almost empty, I do wonder if a shuttle bus connecting Hope station and the caves in Castleton would have worked better. There's bus stops beyond Castleton bus station, but all the services terminate there, meaning no option to catch a bus back near the caves, even Speedwell where visitors will have just ascended 100 steps and then have to walk back into the village if they want a bus.

 

[Goldfish62]

You may want to re-read @derbybusdepot's post. I don't think you'll find they disagree with you.

Re-reading the post, yes, I see. My apologies to @derbybusdepot for misunderstanding.

Problem is I'm so used to reading excuses for Hulley's and that nothing is ever their fault I assumed this was another just another one of those posts. Happy to be proven wrong.

 

[M803UYA]

Re-reading the post, yes, I see. My apologies to @derbybusdepot for misunderstanding.

Problem is I'm so used to reading excuses for Hulley's and that nothing is ever their fault I assumed this was another just another one of those posts. Happy to be proven wrong.

Trouble with sarcasm and this medium is you don't instantly recognise when someone's using it.

 

[Goldfish62]

Trouble with sarcasm and this medium is you don't instantly recognise when someone's using it.

Yes, I really enjoy these forums, but sometimes conversations and debates are so much easier in person!

 

[Teapot42]

Under its own steam

So, they could fix the suspension in a day or two for the move, but not in the couple of week between it happening and the 'end' of the Breezer?

Unless it was only going as far as Ensignbus!

True, I'd assumed it was an 'internal transfer' so to speak. Although not sure Gravesend is much of a market for an open top bus service?

 

[Baxenden Bank]

True, I'd assumed it was an 'internal transfer' so to speak. Although not sure Gravesend is much of a market for an open top bus service?

The beauty of Gravesend being much under-appreciated.

 

[Deerfold]

True, I'd assumed it was an 'internal transfer' so to speak. Although not sure Gravesend is much of a market for an open top bus service?

I've caught open top tours in both Halifax and Keighley - if they can manage to be interesting...

 

[Killingworth]

You really can't blame Hulleys. The bus just didn't go fast enough, any experienced operator starting a route on their doorstep could make such a catastrophic mistake.

The council don't help either, bendy roads, trees in the way, and that's before you get to the passengers taking too long boarding and alighting.

Plus rain and cold weather. It was quite a wild ride on the top deck as it tried to keep anywhere near the timetable.

 

[andrewbowden]

Plus rain and cold weather. It was quite a wild ride on the top deck as it tried to keep anywhere near the timetable.

Rain and wind doesn't need to put off passengers. Stagecoach Cumbria run their 599 open top buses in the Lakes all year round! And their other open top routes certainly run April to October, sometimes beyond that.

A good open top route in the Peak District could potentially be a real tourist magnet if done properly. But it sounds like Hulleys have called it quits.

 

[Killingworth]

Rain and wind doesn't need to put off passengers. Stagecoach Cumbria run their 599 open top buses in the Lakes all year round! And their other open top routes certainly run April to October, sometimes beyond that.

A good open top route in the Peak District could potentially be a real tourist magnet if done properly. But it sounds like Hulleys have called it quits.

From all accounts Stagecoach have been successful so far in the Peak District although the autumnal weather must be starting to have an impact now.

Hulley's was not that brilliant a route, with a less than brilliant old bus (no covered section on the top deck), running to a totally impossible timetable that was never going to work. It bounced it's draughty way along those twisting and congested roads as if in a rally and was not a relaxing ride. It became an elusive bus to catch by anyone. Nice idea though. Wrong formula for success.

 

[Teapot42]

From all accounts Stagecoach have been successful so far in the Peak District although the autumnal weather must be starting to have an impact now.

Hulley's was not that brilliant a route, with a less than brilliant old bus (no covered section on the top deck), running to a totally impossible timetable that was never going to work. It bounced it's draughty way along those twisting and congested roads as if in a rally and was not a relaxing ride. It became an elusive bus to catch by anyone. Nice idea though. Wrong formula for success.

To be honest, even the Peak Sightseer was fairly windy up top and similarly was fairly bouncy along some fairly narrow, twisty and tree-lined roads.

Personally, I think for Peak District open top services they'd be better considering something different, such as converting something like an E300 with a raised seating platform. Would improve the R.A. as trees and low bridges would become less of an issue.

Don't forget that Stagecoach also had one big advantage that Hulleys didn't, in that they got a significant sum of BSIP money to run the service, so were able to better resource it. They pretty much doomed the Breezer from the outset by wanting to go their own way rather than running the joint service that was originally the idea. I'm sure people will say that was a good idea in hindsight, but if Hulleys had been sharing the BSIP funding they could well have been in a better position themselves to attract drivers and possibly have a spare bus available.

 

[Llandudno]

To be honest, even the Peak Sightseer was fairly windy up top and similarly was fairly bouncy along some fairly narrow, twisty and tree-lined roads.

Personally, I think for Peak District open top services they'd be better considering something different, such as converting something like an E300 with a raised seating platform. Would improve the R.A. as trees and low bridges would become less of an issue.

Don't forget that Stagecoach also had one big advantage that Hulleys didn't, in that they got a significant sum of BSIP money to run the service, so were able to better resource it. They pretty much doomed the Breezer from the outset by wanting to go their own way rather than running the joint service that was originally the idea. I'm sure people will say that was a good idea in hindsight, but if Hulleys had been sharing the BSIP funding they could well have been in a better position themselves to attract drivers and possibly have a spare bus available.

I don’t really think that BSIP money, or any tax payers money should be spent on open top or tourist services.

The only exceptions possibly being proper park and ride services.

 

[M803UYA]

Don't forget that Stagecoach also had one big advantage that Hulleys didn't, in that they got a significant sum of BSIP money to run the service, so were able to better resource it. They pretty much doomed the Breezer from the outset by wanting to go their own way rather than running the joint service that was originally the idea. I'm sure people will say that was a good idea in hindsight, but if Hulleys had been sharing the BSIP funding they could well have been in a better position themselves to attract drivers and possibly have a spare bus available.

Stagecoach's other advantage is their ability to develop a service from scratch. They're able to sustain long periods of not making money with a medium term objective of having the route break even then become profitable. The BSIP money will enable the costs of the route to be borne until such time as it becomes commercially sustainable.

Hulleys cannot sustain that negative cashflow for any length of time - hence this stopping and starting of routes. Fuel, drivers wages, parts for the vehicle, safety inspections. All have a cost and the vehicle needs to contribute towards that pretty quickly. As they can't sustain the situation, I don't understand why they're burning cash for no return. Ultimately, it will lead to their going out of business.

 

[Deerfold]

I don’t really think that BSIP money, or any tax payers money should be spent on open top or tourist services.

The only exceptions possibly being proper park and ride services.

It did seem odd, especially as the route didn't accept area tickets - that might have been seen as helping draw tourists to travel to the area by public transport.

 

[Teapot42]

It did seem odd, especially as the route didn't accept area tickets - that might have been seen as helping draw tourists to travel to the area by public transport.

I had a bit of a heated argument with the Stagecoach MD about this. His take was that to have accepted Wayfarers and passes would have meant a larger subsidy would have been needed. To me, that just means the service as conceived wasn't viable, at least not with an operator who seemingly wasn't prepared to take any commercial risk themselves.

The Wayfarer issue is one that has raised it's head elsewhere though - at the moment, the revenue sits with whoever sells the ticket. I know Hulleys aren't happy about this as most Wayfarers they have to accept are sold outside their network area for travel in to it. It is similar here, but also highlights another issue with this bus - that, one route aside, the Peak Sightseer is in an area Stagecoach simply don't serve. They might get the odd Wayfarer sale on the 65, but as it's two-hourly it won't be many.

An operator who had services linking to this area, such as Trent/TM or Hulleys, would likely have been more willing to accept Wayfarers on the service as they would gain some sales and therefore revenue.

I'm not sure this year was the time to be launching a service such as this with driver shortages, and I'm not sure Stagecoach were the best ones to run it with their profit before all else mantra and lack of any real history in the area. More in general though, I feel the way Derbyshire County Council are spending their Bus Service Improvement Plan (BSIP) money is very poor and wasteful. Indeed it seems to be causing more issues than it's helping improve services. I certainly think that one condition of accepting BSIP money should have been to not withdraw any commercial services during the same time period.

 

[chessie]

I don’t really think that BSIP money, or any tax payers money should be spent on open top or tourist services.

The only exceptions possibly being proper park and ride services.

Absolutely agree, I saw both morning Peak Sightseers from my office window in Chesterfield today and they both had a good load on the top deck, bearing in mind we are on a midweek day at the back end of September, I would call that a continuing success. Why someone in Stagecoach marketing or whomever didnt think of this before now is beyond me, even the Breezer from Hulleys was getting good enough loads prior to it going totally wrong.

None of this should require funding for Stagecoach though

 

[markymark2000]

Absolutely agree, I saw both morning Peak Sightseers from my office window in Chesterfield today and they both had a good load on the top deck, bearing in mind we are on a midweek day at the back end of September, I would call that a continuing success. Why someone in Stagecoach marketing or whomever didnt think of this before now is beyond me, even the Breezer from Hulleys was getting good enough loads prior to it going totally wrong.

None of this should require funding though

Mostly because Stagecoach, and almost all operators in fact, for the past about 5 years have wanted everyone else to fund their new ventures as then if it goes wrong, it's someone else's money down the drain if it does well, the funding stops and they make all the money despite the zero they put into it in the first place

 

[Teapot42]

Absolutely agree, I saw both morning Peak Sightseers from my office window in Chesterfield today and they both had a good load on the top deck, bearing in mind we are on a midweek day at the back end of September, I would call that a continuing success. Why someone in Stagecoach marketing or whomever didnt think of this before now is beyond me, even the Breezer from Hulleys was getting good enough loads prior to it going totally wrong.

None of this should require funding for Stagecoach though

The MD claimed he'd wanted to do this for years. Hard to dispute that either way, he's new to the area so it might well be the case. Personally, I think they didn't do it earlier because it would mean commitment to an area outside their normal operating scope. They've never been interested in the Peak District in the past despite their being good opportunities to link up with their operations in Manchester for tourist services.

I guess to be fair to them, they have put some resource in, in that they've converted two more buses to open top. However, if the PS hadn't worked out I'm sure they would have found use elsewhere, as the buses they dredged up to run it initially are getting on.

We saw it Sunday lunchtime and despite the weather there were maybe 8-10 up top. I do wonder how well it will perform in to the depths of winter, and how many will be up top on Wednesday - indeed if they run it at all, as the risk of flying branches must be high.

I'm not sure if they are locked in to this run next year, in some ways I hope not as it doesn't really do the Peak District justice. I would also love to see some real connectivity from the Manchester end. Manchester to Chatsworth is a market I'm amazed no-one has tapped in to for example.

 

[Open top 80]

The MD claimed he'd wanted to do this for years. Hard to dispute that either way, he's new to the area so it might well be the case. Personally, I think they didn't do it earlier because it would mean commitment to an area outside their normal operating scope. They've never been interested in the Peak District in the past despite their being good opportunities to link up with their operations in Manchester for tourist services.

I guess to be fair to them, they have put some resource in, in that they've converted two more buses to open top. However, if the PS hadn't worked out I'm sure they would have found use elsewhere, as the buses they dredged up to run it initially are getting on.

We saw it Sunday lunchtime and despite the weather there were maybe 8-10 up top. I do wonder how well it will perform in to the depths of winter, and how many will be up top on Wednesday - indeed if they run it at all, as the risk of flying branches must be high.

I'm not sure if they are locked in to this run next year, in some ways I hope not as it doesn't really do the Peak District justice. I would also love to see some real connectivity from the Manchester end. Manchester to Chatsworth is a market I'm amazed no-one has tapped in to for example.

There was a bus from Manchester to the Peak District in the late 80s early 90s as I still have the timetable 395 Manchester to Castleton via the snake pass and the 460 Rochdale and Oldham to Matlock Bath via Chatsworth house and the 901 Huddersfield to Crich tramway museum via Buxton and Hartington (for Dovedale)

 

[Deerfold]

There was a bus from Manchester to the Peak District in the late 80s early 90s as I still have the timetable 395 Manchester to Castleton via the snake pass and the 460 Rochdale and Oldham to Matlock Bath via Chatsworth house and the 901 Huddersfield to Crich tramway museum via Buxton and Hartington (for Dovedale)

The 901 (amongst various other numbers) was usually run by Yorkshire Traction, who Stagecoach did buy, but only after it stopped running.

 

[Killingworth]

The MD claimed he'd wanted to do this for years. Hard to dispute that either way, he's new to the area so it might well be the case. Personally, I think they didn't do it earlier because it would mean commitment to an area outside their normal operating scope. They've never been interested in the Peak District in the past despite their being good opportunities to link up with their operations in Manchester for tourist services.

I guess to be fair to them, they have put some resource in, in that they've converted two more buses to open top. However, if the PS hadn't worked out I'm sure they would have found use elsewhere, as the buses they dredged up to run it initially are getting on.

We saw it Sunday lunchtime and despite the weather there were maybe 8-10 up top. I do wonder how well it will perform in to the depths of winter, and how many will be up top on Wednesday - indeed if they run it at all, as the risk of flying branches must be high.

I'm not sure if they are locked in to this run next year, in some ways I hope not as it doesn't really do the Peak District justice. I would also love to see some real connectivity from the Manchester end. Manchester to Chatsworth is a market I'm amazed no-one has tapped in to for example.

Not publicised in any literature I've seen but searching on Google and similar for public transport from Manchester to Chatsworth will find trains to Dore & Totley then the TM Travel 218 to Chatsworth. Users of this link are often of Chinese heritage. It does sometimes confuse users as the buses go alternately Bakewell - Chatsworth or Chatsworth - Bakewell but only say Bakewell on the route indicator. They often don't keep good time so it can be an anxious wait.

Here's the link for the first connection tomorrow Tuesday 26th September taking 1 hour 44 minutes, although taking a later stopping service from Piccadilly to Dore will not take much longer and be cheaper; https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Man...2275433!2m4!5e0!5e1!5e2!5e3!3e3!5i5?entry=ttu

 

[Open top 80]

The 901 (amongst various other numbers) was usually run by Yorkshire Traction, who Stagecoach did buy, but only after it stopped running.901 was ran by West Yorkshire PTE first then Yorkshire Traction with Trent running some short working from Buxton to Holmfirth via Glossop

 

[NorthernSpirit]

From all accounts Stagecoach have been successful so far in the Peak District although the autumnal weather must be starting to have an impact now.

Hulley's was not that brilliant a route, with a less than brilliant old bus (no covered section on the top deck), running to a totally impossible timetable that was never going to work. It bounced it's draughty way along those twisting and congested roads as if in a rally and was not a relaxing ride. It became an elusive bus to catch by anyone. Nice idea though. Wrong formula for success.

Put it this way Esapekka Lappi and Thierry Neuville would have had a hard time keeping to the timetable it was that tight.

One glance at the timetable and it was a case of "should I chance it" with the risk of getting stranded. Maybe next year Hulley's could always reintroduce Breezer but run it between Buxton and Huddersfield, an open topper to Holmfirth would certainly bring in the punters provided that its marketed at non bus users.

 

[Open top 80]

Put it this way Esapekka Lappi and Thierry Neuville would have had a hard time keeping to the timetable it was that tight.

One glance at the timetable and it was a case of "should I chance it" with the risk of getting stranded. Maybe next year Hulley's could always reintroduce Breezer but run it between Buxton and Huddersfield, an open topper to Holmfirth would certainly bring in the punters provided that its marketed at non bus users.

If they do operate it between Buxton and Holmfirth it will be in the Guinness book of records for being the highest open top route in England

 

[Teapot42]

Not publicised in any literature I've seen but searching on Google and similar for public transport from Manchester to Chatsworth will find trains to Dore & Totley then the TM Travel 218 to Chatsworth. Users of this link are often of Chinese heritage. It does sometimes confuse users as the buses go alternately Bakewell - Chatsworth or Chatsworth - Bakewell but only say Bakewell on the route indicator. They often don't keep good time so it can be an anxious wait.

I've seen that route to Chatsworth mentioned before. One thing that Google doesn't mention is that (as far as I can tell anyway) there is no easement for tickets Manchester to Dore that allows doubling back at Sheffield. I wonder how many try and get charged at best and excess and at worst a penalty fare.

If I was planning it, I'd have a bus running south from Manchester through Rusholme to Fallowfield, then on to the A34 and Airport Link Road. That would pass by a lot of student accommodation and thereby remove the need for them to travel in to the centre of Manchester, making it much more time competitive.

To be honest, Chinese students are a massive up-tapped market. Many who come here have very rich parents so anyone prepared to say buy a couple of small coaches, kit them out well and arrange tours with a Mandarin-speaking guide could charge a lot of money. I wish I had the money and contacts to start such a business, sadly I don't...

 

[MotCO]

I'm not sure if they are locked in to this run next year, in some ways I hope not as it doesn't really do the Peak District justice.

Is this on the basis that Stagecoach's buses weren't the best? Maybe it was a case of just dipping their toes in the market this year, and next year, knowing the market and demand better, they could use something more modern?