• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Hulley's of Baslow

derbybusdepot

Member
Joined
17 Dec 2015
Messages
103
How much work was actually put into it, given given how much of a disaster it was right from the start?

I'm starting to think that Hulleys would have been better off not bothering with it at all, given what it's done to their reputation.
Well someone sat down and came up with the route and timetable, updated timetable cases on route, got a bus repainted, and got lots of leaflets printed, that were then worthless from day 1!

I know bsip money wasn't awarded to breezer, but perhaps the service had to be hourly to have a chance of getting it - hence the "ambitious" timetable being created, even more ambitious than most hulleys timetables!
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

M803UYA

Member
Joined
24 May 2020
Messages
647
Location
Under my stone....
Good evening @Teapot42 ,


The only paid advertising the Peak Sightseer has benefited from is what we have spent ourselves, we have invested a lot of our own money into making this a success as we see a potential market. We spent a huge amount of time and used our experience in leisure services (including open toppers - including those above), destination marketing, and a huge amount of research into who visits the Peak District plus talking extensively with tourism partners to understand the potential market.
Welcome to the forum Matt.

I can vouch for your advertising efforts. The other day I was driving my slightly decomposing Transit school bus (rust present at manufacture, I think) through Pontefract behind one of your 28s which had come in from Barnsley. And inside the double decker was an advert for the Peak Sightseer. So if I saw that from my driving seat it'll be fair to assume so did all of the bottom deck passengers.

Evidently the company intends for the route to return next year, and also evidently a lot of time and effort is being put into making people aware. I'll certainly come along and make a trip with senior management (she likes open top buses.....) in 2024.

Compared with Hulley's efforts I think we can see which route will return next year?
 

RELL6L

Member
Joined
19 May 2014
Messages
985

Llandudno

Established Member
Joined
25 Dec 2014
Messages
2,205
Its a tendered Derbyshire service replacing the old Stagecoach 80 with significant changes.
Not another commercial foray into the competitive abyss!
It’s quite resource heavy requiring 3 vehicles with a 2 minute layover at one end and 5 minutes at the other on a cross-town route taking circa 80 minutes one way ….what could possibly go wrong!

The evening and Sunday service operates hourly from Bakewell to Crystal Peaks with a running time of 110 minutes!

Let’s hope Hulley’s have sufficient drivers and vehicles to operate it!
 

RELL6L

Member
Joined
19 May 2014
Messages
985
It’s quite resource heavy requiring 3 vehicles with a 2 minute layover at one end and 5 minutes at the other on a cross-town route taking circa 80 minutes one way ….what could possibly go wrong!

The evening and Sunday service operates hourly from Bakewell to Crystal Peaks with a running time of 110 minutes!

Let’s hope Hulley’s have sufficient drivers and vehicles to operate it!
Indeed - standard Hulleys style! They have lost the 48 and 49 to Stagecoach which was two vehicles so not such a huge increase in resources required.
The 55 also still requires 3 buses some way from base across town with just 5 minutes layover at each end!
 

JD2168

Member
Joined
11 Jul 2022
Messages
938
Location
Sheffield
Its a tendered Derbyshire service replacing the old Stagecoach 80 with significant changes.
Not another commercial foray into the competitive abyss!
It removes the Sheffield to Killamarsh bus service link & it also came in handy around the Beighton area as the TM Travel 30 regularly drops journeys. Now to get to Killamarsh passengers have to change at Crystal Peaks. The Hady & Spital section is run by a revised 55.
 

Edvid

Established Member
Joined
7 Feb 2008
Messages
1,337
Here's a development that's apparently from leftfield - Hulleys have purchased Swanley-based operator Go-Coach. A picture of the internal notice from Austin Blackburn was published on the Public Transport Experience blog.

MONDAY 4 DECEMBER 2023
Take-Over News
A Bit Of A Surprise


We are well used to the multiplicity of manipulations in the big bad world of bus business. Recently we have seen the dramatic expansion of McGills and, on a smaller scale, the purchase of Ensign by First Bus and, perhaps a bit weirder, the take-over of Dartline by GoAhead.

Is the breaking news from Baslow the beginning of a rare small company expansion into the big time?

News broke yesterday that Hulleys, respected Derbyshire operator, had bought GoCoach based in Swanley (Kent) but mainly operating buses out of Sevenoaks bus station.

[...]

So, as they say at the climax of all the best "soaps", "what's going in?

The owner of GoCoach has sent a letter to his staff explaining the reasons for the sale and its consequences. Click on the extract below for an enlargement.

[Extract available on website]

In simple terms, nothing changes. Go Coach boss, Austin Blackburn wants to cut down his 70 hour working weeks but will remain as Engineering Director of both companies.

Hmmm. There is a phrase for that!

Further notes in the letter suggest that some of Hulley's engineering will be done at Swanley. That's a round trip of 338 miles!

Seems a long way to drive to service a bus!

[...]

Whatever; a number of senior bus men have expressed their bewilderment at this take-over decision. Lets hope Alf Crofts, boss of Hulleys, hasn't over reached himself!
 

MotCO

Established Member
Joined
25 Aug 2014
Messages
4,135
Here's a development that's apparently from leftfield - Hulleys have purchased Swanley-based operator Go-Coach. A picture of the internal notice from Austin Blackburn was published on the Public Transport Experience blog.

Go-Coach had lent some buses to Hulleys recently, so maybe this has been brewing for some time. I would have thought that Go Ahead (Metrobus) would have been a suitable purchaser to compliment their recent purchase of Southdown PSV.

There is no news of this on Go-Coach's web site nor Hulley's website.
 
Last edited:

zakky1.0

Member
Joined
29 Nov 2023
Messages
30
Location
Derby, Derbyshire
Go-Coach had lent some buses to Hulleys recently, so maybe this has been brewing for some time. I would have thought that Go Ahead (Metrobus) would have been a suitable purchaser to compliment their recent purchase of Southdown PSV.

There is no news of this on Go-Coach's web site nor Hulley's website.
last ditch attempt to improve the cash flow? the cancellations list on the facebook seems extremely long compared to normal...
 

Simon75

On Moderation
Joined
25 May 2016
Messages
895
I would have thought either Stagecoach Yorkshire, Wellglade or Centrebus would tried to buy Hulleys, as they are nearby
 

JD2168

Member
Joined
11 Jul 2022
Messages
938
Location
Sheffield
This is a bit of a surprise. I would have thought that Go-Coach would have sold to an operator near to Swanley but it may explain the long list of loaned buses from Go-Coach to Hulleys in recent months.
 

zakky1.0

Member
Joined
29 Nov 2023
Messages
30
Location
Derby, Derbyshire
I would have thought either Stagecoach Yorkshire, Wellglade or Centrebus would tried to buy Hulleys, as they are nearby
I highly doubt any of these companies would unless they wanted to operate at a loss continuously. The multitude of posts I've seen all hint that Hulleys are barely scraping enough money to keep the place going. Go Coach seems like a very obvious attempt to have another company to back Hulleys up with.

The cancellations are probably because of left over snow and ice.
This makes 0 sense to me. I highly doubt a tiny bit of snow is going to cause 31 cancellations, on routes with 2/3hr gaps as it is, all of which are contracted. Hopefully Derbyshire County Council grow a backbone & impose a fine for missing runs on contracted services but running commercial routes.

It seems no matter what, Hulleys are dropping further & further from the once highly respected company they were. They cannot get staff to stay at this point, whereas 10/15 years ago there was a waiting list!

How long now until they either shut up shop or majorly descale the network?
 
Last edited by a moderator:

GusB

Established Member
Associate Staff
Buses & Coaches
Joined
9 Jul 2016
Messages
6,615
Location
Elginshire
The discussion around the acquisition of Go Coach has been moved into its own thread:

Please continue to use this thread for matters pertaining to Hulley's main operation.
 

zakky1.0

Member
Joined
29 Nov 2023
Messages
30
Location
Derby, Derbyshire

Good morning, the following services are not running today. Apologies for any inconvenience caused.
170 07:50 Bakewell to Chesterfield Rail Station
170 08:45 Chesterfield Rail Station to Bakewell
55 06:00 Chesterfield to Somercotes
55 07:30 Alfreton to Chesterfield Royal
55 08:57 Chesterfield Royal Hospital to Chesterfield
272 10:36 Sheffield to Castleton
272 11:48 Castleton to Sheffield
257 09:10 Bakewell to Sheffield
257 10:40 Sheffield to Bakewell
173 07:15 Tideswell to Bakewell
55 08:15 Chesterfield to Alfreton
X80 07:20 Killamarsh to Chesterfield
170 09:50 Bakewell to Chesterfield Rail Station
63 08:25 Matlock to Chesterfield
63 09:45 Chesterfield to Matlock
63 11:00 Matlock to Chesterfield
55 09:30 Alfreton to Chesterfield Royal Hospital
257 12:10 Bakewell to Sheffield
257 14:05 Sheffield to Bakewell
170 10:45 Chesterfield Rail Station to Bakewell
170 11:50 Bakewell to Chesterfield Rail Station
170 12:45 Chesterfield Rail Station to Bakewell
170 13:50 Bakewell to Chesterfield Rail Station
55 11:15 Chesterfield to Alfreton
63 12:10 Chesterfield to Matlock
63 13:25 Matlock to Chesterfield
63 14:30 Chesterfield to Matlock
80 17:10 Holymoorside to Crystal Peaks
80A 18:40 Crystal Peaks to Bakewell
80A 20:55 Bakewell to Crystal Peaks
80A 23:00 Crystal Peaks to Killamarsh
170 14:50 Bakewell to Chesterfield Rail Station
170 15:45 Chesterfield Rail Station to Bakewell
173 16:50 Bakewell to Shutts Lane
173 16:55 Shutts Lane to Bakewell
257 17:40 Sheffield to Bakewell
271 15:36 Sheffield to Castleton
272 17:01 Castleton to Sheffield
80 13:45 Holymoorside to Crystal Peaks
80 15:15 Crystal Peaks to Holymoorside
272 17:36 Sheffield to Castleton

A bad day for anybody using Hulley's services today; most of these were posted AFTER the service should've departed. It's not really helpful if you want to plan ahead. How much longer before services start getting chopped?

Today's excuses were driver & vehicle shortages, plus vehicle breakdowns.

Is it time for Derbyshire County Council to start handing out fines?
 
Last edited by a moderator:

liamf656

Member
Joined
2 Aug 2020
Messages
576
Location
Derby
41 journeys today alone. Route 63 has hardly had a service for weeks, but hey, at least they've focused on the more pressing things... fleet renumbering!

Might I add that those 41 cancellations don't include last minute missed journeys that weren't advertised, late (or early) running and even missed sections of route. A skim through bustimes from yesterday's trips proves this massively. This operator seriously needs to get their act together
 
Last edited:

M803UYA

Member
Joined
24 May 2020
Messages
647
Location
Under my stone....
Today's excuses were driver & vehicle shortages, plus vehicle breakdowns.

None of which is a 'reasonable excuse' for failing to operate services. Operators should have sufficient buses and drivers available to them to maintain the timetables they've registered.
 

liamf656

Member
Joined
2 Aug 2020
Messages
576
Location
Derby
None of which is a 'reasonable excuse' for failing to operate services. Operators should have sufficient buses and drivers available to them to maintain the timetables they've registered.
And if they don't, scale down!!

What baffles me is that Littles ran the 216/217 in Derbyshire and after a few weeks of poor service the council stepped in and handed the routes over to another operator. Hulleys consistently run a poor service across their network as evidenced on bustimes.org, and seem to have gotten away with it for years now. There's a point where it becomes embarrassing, and when they choose to block all comments on their social media, it just shows that they'd rather bury their head in the sand
 

M803UYA

Member
Joined
24 May 2020
Messages
647
Location
Under my stone....
And if they don't, scale down!!

What baffles me is that Littles ran the 216/217 in Derbyshire and after a few weeks of poor service the council stepped in and handed the routes over to another operator. Hulleys consistently run a poor service across their network as evidenced on bustimes.org, and seem to have gotten away with it for years now. There's a point where it becomes embarrassing, and when they choose to block all comments on their social media, it just shows that they'd rather bury their head in the sand
To be fair there's a multitude of reasons to block social media comments - spammers and spurious complaints amongst them. Those tactics don't work with the traffic commissioner's office though. So I expect we shall see them visiting for a public inquiry in due course.
 

ALEMASTER

Member
Joined
18 Aug 2011
Messages
319
To be fair there's a multitude of reasons to block social media comments - spammers and spurious complaints amongst them. Those tactics don't work with the traffic commissioner's office though. So I expect we shall see them visiting for a public inquiry in due course.
Hulleys are right to switch off comments on their social media - it isn't a channel they advertise as a way for customers to contact them, it is purely a means to get information and updates out to passengers.

Hulleys was a once great operator, unfortunately now going through difficult times with driver shortages and fleet issues and you are probably right to suspect the traffic commissioner may come knocking on their door to investigate the level of cancellations soon. They aren't the only ones with driver shortages though, its an issue industry wide, TM Travel are in a mess too and Stagecoach are still making a lot of cancellations although are improving - what makes it worse at Hulleys though in terms of impact on passengers is most Hulleys services are rural buses that run infrequently and if its a route that is just one vehicle shuttling up and down, lose one vehicle and the whole route goes down!
 

markymark2000

On Moderation
Joined
11 May 2015
Messages
3,573
Location
Western Part of the UK
They aren't the only ones with driver shortages though, its an issue industry wide, TM Travel are in a mess too and Stagecoach are still making a lot of cancellations although are improving -
TM Travel have cut back on their contracts and other operators have stepped in though like Vectare on the 81 (including purely to give an example). Nothing stops Hulleys throwing back ab outlier tender (ones which don't tend to interwork and can work standalone) like the 110/111 and an operator with staff can take on the contract.
 

Robertj21a

On Moderation
Joined
22 Sep 2013
Messages
7,520
For the short term Hulleys could hire 1-2 buses from elsewhere and hire a couple of agency drivers too. Surely, their reputation is worth that outlay?
 

ALEMASTER

Member
Joined
18 Aug 2011
Messages
319
TM Travel have cut back on their contracts and other operators have stepped in though like Vectare on the 81 (including purely to give an example). Nothing stops Hulleys throwing back ab outlier tender (ones which don't tend to interwork and can work standalone) like the 110/111 and an operator with staff can take on the contract.
TM have part suspended a number of tendered services they have contracts for with some simply not running on Saturdays, basically telling passengers they can only travel on weekdays, they are also seeing cancellations on other scheduled services that should be running. Meanwhile they are still taking on contracts such as event shuttles, school swimming trips etc that local coach companies could easily do.

The problem is "other bus operators with enough staff" don't necessarily exist. In Sheffield for example there has been issues for some time where buses don't exist on SYMCA tendered services simply because no operator bid for the work, and there's the issue - if Hulleys pulled out of some contracts would those buses just cease to exist because no other operator has the resource to take them on?
 

sytransport

Member
Joined
15 Dec 2023
Messages
16
Location
Sheffield
TM have part suspended a number of tendered services they have contracts for with some simply not running on Saturdays, basically telling passengers they can only travel on weekdays, they are also seeing cancellations on other scheduled services that should be running. Meanwhile they are still taking on contracts such as event shuttles, school swimming trips etc that local coach companies could easily do.

The problem is "other bus operators with enough staff" don't necessarily exist. In Sheffield for example there has been issues for some time where buses don't exist on SYMCA tendered services simply because no operator bid for the work, and there's the issue - if Hulleys pulled out of some contracts would those buses just cease to exist because no other operator has the resource to take them on?
I fail to understand the business model at TM Travel. Having undercut other operators for multiple SYMCA tenders, they cannot and do not provide the provision to run the routes. However, as you said yourself, TM are happy to take on additional contracts for shuttles etc. and will prioritise providing the staff and vehicles for those contracts over running the tendered mileage.

Take the 76A for example - Stagecoach took the tender for the route who were subsequently undercut by TM Travel at the next round of bidding. I can't count the amount of times this service has been dropped due to lack of staff.
 

ALEMASTER

Member
Joined
18 Aug 2011
Messages
319
I fail to understand the business model at TM Travel. Having undercut other operators for multiple SYMCA tenders, they cannot and do not provide the provision to run the routes. However, as you said yourself, TM are happy to take on additional contracts for shuttles etc. and will prioritise providing the staff and vehicles for those contracts over running the tendered mileage.

Take the 76A for example - Stagecoach took the tender for the route who were subsequently undercut by TM Travel at the next round of bidding. I can't count the amount of times this service has been dropped due to lack of staff.
Actually to be fair I do recall TM had a pool of zero hours contract drivers to call upon for one off pieces off work such as event shuttles and rail replacement, not sure if that is still the case.
 

sytransport

Member
Joined
15 Dec 2023
Messages
16
Location
Sheffield
Actually to be fair I do recall TM had a pool of zero hours contract drivers to call upon for one off pieces off work such as event shuttles and rail replacement, not sure if that is still the case.
I suppose that makes sense, although I have seen one or two drivers who do service work working the contracted routes (I suppose could be overtime?)
 

Top