Hulley's of Baslow

[Trainman40083]

If only life were that black and white.

I've been on both sides of the fence and it's tough as a manager. You want to tell your staff what you know so that they are informed, but you also know that you can't tell your staff everything. With redundancy there are legal obligations to consult, for instance, and it can cause all sorts of issues if you don't follow the legal requirements.

Thankfully I've never had to manage a redundancy situation but in one job I knew we were 48 hours from having to issue the statutory notices. Thankfully a grant came in, otherwise... Obviously I couldn't tell my staff that.

I know exactly what you mean. Managers locked in rooms out of sight, coming back and saying nothing to staff. I have been there. There is a time, when staff get told.

Apologies if I’ve misread somewhere, but was it mentioned that all 5 Enviro200 MMCs went back to the leasing company? I’ve just seen 7532 on New Beetwell Street

Yes 7531 to 7533 still in service...

 

[chessie]

12th Jan Service Change Notices are now displayed on all buses, they could also be on social media but I am not on there. In summary:-

6 - Withdrawn except 0652/1545 to Chesterfied and 0755/1710 from Chesterfield
55 - Alfreton to East Midlands Outlet section withdrawn
170 - some early Saturday morning and late Sunday evening servies withdrawn
178 - to serve Shutts Lane instead of 173
257 - some journeys no longer continue to/from Bakewell. Sunday Service introduced in British Summer Time only between Sheffield - Bamford Station
257c - Withdrawn

Not as severe as I thought it could have been in all fairness.

 

[markymark2000]

12th Jan Service Change Notices are now displayed on all buses, they could also be on social media but I am not on there. In summary:-

6 - Withdrawn except 0652/1545 to Chesterfied and 0755/1710 from Chesterfield
55 - Alfreton to East Midlands Outlet section withdrawn
170 - some early Saturday morning and late Sunday evening servies withdrawn
178 - to serve Shutts Lane instead of 173
257 - some journeys no longer continue to/from Bakewell. Sunday Service introduced in British Summer Time only between Sheffield - Bamford Station
257c - Withdrawn

Not as severe as I thought it could have been in all fairness.

The 6 has not long been introduced. Its no wonder they are struggling. Their network is more unstable than the deckchairs on the titanic.

Upto now, no update on social media.

 

[Trainman40083]

The 6 has not long been introduced. Its no wonder they are struggling. Their network is more unstable than the deckchairs on the titanic.

Upto now, no update on social media.

I would think the changes may well allow for the return of the remaining 74 plated Enviros 200MMCs.

 

[JKP]

12th Jan Service Change Notices are now displayed on all buses, they could also be on social media but I am not on there. In summary:-

6 - Withdrawn except 0652/1545 to Chesterfied and 0755/1710 from Chesterfield
55 - Alfreton to East Midlands Outlet section withdrawn
170 - some early Saturday morning and late Sunday evening servies withdrawn
178 - to serve Shutts Lane instead of 173
257 - some journeys no longer continue to/from Bakewell. Sunday Service introduced in British Summer Time only between Sheffield - Bamford Station
257c - Withdrawn

Not as severe as I thought it could have been in all fairness.

So saves a minimum of two buses, one on the 6 and one on the 55.

 

[m79900]

An all contract routes stay the same?

 

[chessie]

An all contract routes stay the same?

The only other change that I didnt think was worth noting is the 63 will run at 1435 from Chesterfield instead of 1430. No mention of any other routes beyond that.

 

[Goldfish62]

Hulley's have been summoned to a Public Inquiry on 21st January.

Source: letter from the Office of the Traffic Commissioner to the MP for Derbyshire Dales.

I can't post a screenshot of the letter due to Forum rules.

 

[omnicity4659]

Hulley's have been summoned to a Public Inquiry on 21st January.

Source: letter from the Office of the Traffic Commissioner to the MP for Derbyshire Dales.

I can't post a screenshot of the letter due to Forum rules.

See page 12: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/67766e906a79200ddfa21b7e/np_3157_01_January_2025.pdf

Unfortunately I can’t copy and paste from the document on my device.

 

[Flange Squeal]

See page 12: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/67766e906a79200ddfa21b7e/np_3157_01_January_2025.pdf

Unfortunately I can’t copy and paste from the document on my device.

Public Inquiry (90305) to be held at The Public Inquiry Room (Warrington), WA3 2SH, Suite 4, Stone Cross Place, Stone Cross Lane North, Golborne, Warrington, on 21 January 2025 commencing at 10:30


Previous hearing on 17 September 2024 was adjourned.


PC0003407 SN


HENRY HULLEY & SONS LTD


Directors): ALFRED VINCENT CROFTS


DERWENT GARAGE, CALVER ROAD, BASLOW, BAKEWELL, DE45 IRP S17 - Consideration of disciplinary action under Section 17 (The Public Passenger Vehicles Act 1981)

 

[Goldfish62]

See page 12: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/67766e906a79200ddfa21b7e/np_3157_01_January_2025.pdf

Unfortunately I can’t copy and paste from the document on my device.

Thanks.

 

[MotCO]

The Public Inquiry refers to Section 17 of the Public Passenger Vehicle Act 1981. This states

17Revocation, suspension etc. of licences

(1)The traffic commissioners by whom a standard licence was granted shall revoke the licence if it appears to them at any time that the holder no longer satisfies the requirement to be of good repute, the requirement to be of appropriate financial standing or the requirement as to professional competence.

(2)Without prejudice to subsection (1) above, the traffic commissioners by whom a PSV operator's licence was granted may, on any of the grounds specified in subsection (3) below, at any time—

(a)revoke the licence;

(b)suspend the licence for such period as the commissioners direct (during which time it shall be of no effect);

(c)curtail the period of validity of the licence;

(d)vary any condition attached under subsection (1) of section 16 of this Act to the licence, or attach to the licence (whether in addition to or in place of any existing condition so attached to it) any such condition as is mentioned in that subsection.

(3)The grounds for action under subsection (2) above are—

(a)that the holder of the licence made or procured to be made for the purposes of his application for the licence, or for the purposes of an application for a variation of the licence, a statement of fact which (whether to his knowledge or not) was false, or a statement of intention or expectation which has not been fulfilled;

(b)that there has been a contravention of any condition attached to the licence:

(c)that a prohibition under section 9 of this Act has been imposed with respect to a vehicle owned or operated by the holder of the licence, or that the holder of the licence has been convicted of an offence under subsection (9) of that section;

(d)in the case of a restricted licence, that the holder no longer satisfies the requirement to be of good repute or the requirement to be of appropriate financial standing;
(e)that there has been since the licence was granted or varied a material change in any of the circumstances of the holder of the licence which were relevant to the grant or variation of his licence.

(4)Traffic commissioners shall not take any action under subsection (1) or (2) above in respect of any licence without first holding a public sitting if the holder of the licence requests them to do so.

(5)Where traffic commissioners decide to revoke a licence under this section, they may direct that the revocation shall not take effect for such period as appears to them reasonably required to enable the business carried on under the licence to be transferred to another person duly licensed to carry it on.

(6)The provisions of Schedule 3 to this Act shall apply for the purposes of subsections (1) and (3)(d) above as they apply for the purposes of section 14(1) of this Act.

Public Passenger Vehicles Act 1981

www.legislation.gov.uk

This sounds quite serious unless there are mitigating circumstances. Does this spell the end of Hulleys?

 

[mayneway]

The Public Inquiry refers to Section 17 of the Public Passenger Vehicle Act 1981. This states


This sounds quite serious unless there are mitigating circumstances. Does this spell the end of Hulleys?

Well it would explain the distancing from Go Coach and the returning of leased vehicles etc

 

[omnicity4659]

The director, Mr Croft, is also scheduled for a Transport Manager Public Inquiry on the same morning.

 

[Cesarcollie]

The Public Inquiry refers to Section 17 of the Public Passenger Vehicle Act 1981. This states


This sounds quite serious unless there are mitigating circumstances. Does this spell the end of Hulleys?

Depends what the specific issues are. Section 17 is cited in virtually all PI’s as it covers the basic ‘rules’ which operators are expected to adhere to when granted a licence. The outcome will depend on the specific issues and their responses.

 

[Discuss223]

Reliability issues aside, I've always found Hulley's to be a great company and their investment in the new Evolution buses is to a very high specification. They have some great employees who are a credit to the transport industry. It would be a great shame if Hulley's were to cease business but let's not get carried away with things, an inquiry is just that, not a decision.

 

[m79900]

Reliability issues aside, I've always found Hulley's to be a great company and their investment in the new Evolution buses is to a very high specification. They have some great employees who are a credit to the transport industry. It would be a great shame if Hulley's were to cease business but let's not get carried away with things, an inquiry is just that, not a decision.

It's been a long time since Hulleys were buying new Evolutions.

 

[zkyx02]

their investment in the new Evolution buses is to a very high specification.

the dealer stock eVoRas? While being a nice vehicle the spec is nothing to do with hulleys

 

[chessie]

Putting everything aside I wish Hulleys all the best. I live on their route and the drivers are usually the best despite what gets posted, you can often get on the bus not knowing the driver and leave having had the most random chat.

They will always assist the regulars too, to the point the driver will get out and stop traffic to assist the usual old lady over the road at Baslow who usually has her wrapped fish and chips from Bakewell

 

[Goldfish62]

Putting everything aside I wish Hulleys all the best. I live on their route and the drivers are usually the best despite what gets posted, you can often get on the bus not knowing the driver and leave having had the most random chat.

They will always assist the regulars too, to the point the driver will get out and stop traffic to assist the usual old lady over the road at Baslow who usually has her wrapped fish and chips from Bakewell

It doesn't matter how friendly the drivers are if you can't rely on the service. I have friends in Hathersage who use Hulley's and they've got nothing good to say about the company, having been constantly let down by it.

The letter from the OTC to the local MP which I referenced in a earlier post was as a result of a deluge of complaints from constituents about Hulley's services.

 

[chessie]

It doesn't matter how friendly the drivers are if you can't rely on the service. I have friends in Hathersage who use Hulley's and they've got nothing good to say about the company, having been constantly let down by it.

The letter from the OTC to the local MP which I referenced in a earlier post was as a result of a deluge of complaints from constituents about Hulley's services.

How many people in Hathersage rely on a bus? Beyond tourists and school children I would say few, I know thats not the point but lets put things in perspective the bus would cart fresh air otherwise

 

[tom1649]

How many people in Hathersage rely on a bus? Beyond tourists and school children I would say few, I know thats not the point but lets put things in perspective the bus would cart fresh air otherwise

How are you ever going to increase bus usage with that attitude? I know people who live on the 172 route who regularly can't get to jobs and appointments on time.

 

[Goldfish62]

How many people in Hathersage rely on a bus? Beyond tourists and school children I would say few, I know thats not the point but lets put things in perspective the bus would cart fresh air otherwise

I'm assuming this post is not meant to be taken seriously.

 

[TheManOnThe172]

... the bus would cart fresh air otherwise

The challenge for rural public transport is that the number of people needing to use it has fallen in many places to below the level where a bus is the sensible solution.

But while aggregate demand may be low, those people who do need the bus have a real and important need, which is barely met by existing services even when they run to time.

A child on the Hulleys 172 route (Matlock-Bakewell) through my village had better have parents with a car and the time to give them a lift if they want to do any post-16 education that isn't offered by the secondary schools in Matlock or Bakewell because the first bus leaves too late to get them to colleges in Chesterfield, Buxton, or Derby. Anyone living along the route looking for full-time employment is limited to a standard-hours job in either Matlock or Bakewell: first arrival and last departure leave too little margin to venture further. An outpatients appointment at the local District Hospital (on the eastern edge of Chesterfield) might only need 94 minutes on three buses (vs 30 mins by car), if you happen to land a 1045 appointment and all the connections work. But if you have a 1400 appointment, you'll need to leave my village at 1045: 195 minutes of travel and waiting. And hope you are finished in time to catch the last possible return trip of the day at 1559 - again three buses, with just four minutes of leeway for one of the changes.

Despite £47m of BSIP money, Derbyshire CC (DCC) don't appear to have come up with any viable future model for meeting sparse rural demand, nor have I seen any encouraging results from other authorities. If Hulleys were to cease operation, I am not at all sure what DCC would be able to afford in their place.

Is everyone involved in procuring rural public transport just hoping to muddle through, praying that the current precarious provision won't collapse until they have retired?

 

[Goldfish62]

Despite £47m of BSIP money, Derbyshire CC (DCC) don't appear to have come up with any viable future model for meeting sparse rural demand, nor have I seen any encouraging results from other authorities. If Hulleys were to cease operation, I am not at all sure what DCC would be able to afford in their place.

Is there a viable alternate future model? DRT isn't an alternative. It's hopelessly uneconomic and anyone who reads Roger French's blogs will know how unreliable and difficult to use it can be.

At the moment supported local bus services are the only game in town and will almost certainly continue to be long-term. However, unlike the abysmal service Hulley's have been providing over the past couple of years they actually need to turn up to stand a chance of surviving.

Is everyone involved in procuring rural public transport just hoping to muddle through, praying that the current precarious provision won't collapse until they have retired?

That's certainly what I'd be doing.

 

[Killingworth]

The challenge for rural public transport is that the number of people needing to use it has fallen in many places to below the level where a bus is the sensible solution.

But while aggregate demand may be low, those people who do need the bus have a real and important need, which is barely met by existing services even when they runs to time.

A child on the Hulleys 172 route (Matlock-Bakewell) through my village had better have parents with a car and the time to give them a lift if they want to do any post-16 education that isn't offered by the secondary schools in Matlock or Bakewell because the first bus leaves too late to get them to colleges in Chesterfield, Buxton, or Derby. Anyone living along the route looking for full-time employment is limited to a standard-hours job in either Matlock or Bakewell: first arrival and last departure leave too little margin to venture further. An outpatients appointment at the local District Hospital (on the eastern edge of Chesterfield) might only need 94 minutes on three buses (vs 30 mins by car), if you happen to land a 1045 appointment and all the connections work. But if you have a 1400 appointment, you'll need to leave my village at 1045: 195 minutes of travel and waiting. And hope you are finished in time to catch the last possible return trip of the day at 1559 - again three buses, with just four minutes of leeway for one of the changes.

Despite £47m of BSIP money, Derbyshire CC (DCC) don't appear to have come up with any viable future model for meeting sparse rural demand, nor have I seen any encouraging results from other authorities. If Hulleys were to cease operation, I am not at all sure what DCC would be able to afford in their place.

Is everyone involved in procuring rural public transport just hoping to muddle through, praying that the current precarious provision won't collapse until they have retired?

We're diverging from the specifics of Hulley's into the generality of rural public transport, indeed of outer suburban public transport too.

The reality is some form of public taxis could be the future, tailored to times and places. That's what many are now having to pay for rather than relying on a bus, or train, that may or may not turn up.

 

[Goldfish62]

We're diverging from the specifics of Hulley's into the generality of rural public transport, indeed of outer suburban public transport too.

Yes, it kind of feels that some comments on here are trying to excuse Hulley's poor service on the basis that, "it doesn't matter if they don't turn up because no one uses rural buses anyway".

 

[SCH117X]

The challenge for rural public transport is that the number of people needing to use it has fallen in many places to below the level where a bus is the sensible solution.

But while aggregate demand may be low, those people who do need the bus have a real and important need, which is barely met by existing services even when they runs to time.

A child on the Hulleys 172 route (Matlock-Bakewell) through my village had better have parents with a car and the time to give them a lift if they want to do any post-16 education that isn't offered by the secondary schools in Matlock or Bakewell because the first bus leaves too late to get them to colleges in Chesterfield, Buxton, or Derby. Anyone living along the route looking for full-time employment is limited to a standard-hours job in either Matlock or Bakewell: first arrival and last departure leave too little margin to venture further. An outpatients appointment at the local District Hospital (on the eastern edge of Chesterfield) might only need 94 minutes on three buses (vs 30 mins by car), if you happen to land a 1045 appointment and all the connections work. But if you have a 1400 appointment, you'll need to leave my village at 1045: 195 minutes of travel and waiting. And hope you are finished in time to catch the last possible return trip of the day at 1559 - again three buses, with just four minutes of leeway for one of the changes.

Despite £47m of BSIP money, Derbyshire CC (DCC) don't appear to have come up with any viable future model for meeting sparse rural demand, nor have I seen any encouraging results from other authorities. If Hulleys were to cease operation, I am not at all sure what DCC would be able to afford in their place.

Is everyone involved in procuring rural public transport just hoping to muddle through, praying that the current precarious provision won't collapse until they have retired?

The 172 is a Derbyshire County Council contract so it is the Council who have decided the level of service not Hulleys.

 

[Discuss223]

I stand corrected, the vehicles I was talking about: I thought they were MK2 Evolutions, they are actually called a Volvo Evora, as some posters upthread alluded to. Very similar in design though and built at MCV's Cambridgeshire plant, just like the Evolutions.

 

[borage]

I stand corrected, the vehicles I was talking about: I thought they were MK2 Evolutions, they are actually called a Volvo Evora, as some posters upthread alluded to. Very similar in design though and built at MCV's Cambridgeshire plant, just like the Evolutions.

Aren't they built in Egypt? But yes, similar in design – an evolution, you might say.

Back on the subject of Hulleys, their website is quite good these days and this (under the Don't Be Stranded heading) is commendable (although it's Derbyshire County Council who should be commended):

We do our very best to run our buses as advertised, but sometimes due to circumstances outside our control we’re unable to run some journeys. In line with Derbyshire County Council’s BSIP Policy, if we fail to operate the last bus of the day on any route then you can claim for a refund for a taxi fare between any two points on that route. Just email to us a copy of the taxi receipt showing the exact start and finish points of your journey, along with your name, bank sort codes and bank account number. Please allow 5 working days for your refund to be processed.