Hulley's of Baslow

[Xenophon PCDGS]

An extremely professional and honest response to the situation.

Indeed so. I spoke to one of their staff about the X1 service and whilst a few of the journeys had run, the driver situation meant that they are withdrawing the service from tomorrow.

 

[Glenn1969]

It is a very honest response, but not one that helps passengers wanting to travel between Macclesfield, Leek, Cauldon Low and Ashbourne. D&G withdrew/curtailed the 108 and 109 services because of the X1 launch. I wonder what these folks will do now?

 

[Sprinter150]

Very honest response. But not one that helps passengers wanting to travel between Macciesfield and Leek and Cauldon Low and Ashbourne because D&G withdrew/curtailed the 108 and 109 services because of the X1 launch. I wonder what these folks will do now?

D&G have updated their website to say they are speaking with SCC.

Information about services 108 and 109

Since September 2020 D&G Bus Ltd has operated these Macclesfield - Leek - Ashbourne services under contract to Staffordshire County Council.

During the Summer of 2021 another bus company, Hulleys of Baslow, decided to introduce a new commercial service between Ashbourne and Macclesfield, extending to Manchester Airport from 6thSeptember 2021.

As a result Staffordshire County Council instructed D&G to reduce its contracted service to run only between Cauldon Lowe and Rudyard from the same date. D&G accepted this, although a change in our service from the same date was, in our opinion, premature and we felt that time should be allowed for the new operator’s service to settle down.

Subsequently Hulleys service will be withdrawn after 8th September due to driver shortages.

D&G is currently discussing options with Staffordshire County Council as to whether the D&G service should change again. As soon as a decision is reached details will be posted on our website.

D&G will be restoring service 108 to run between Leek and Ashbourne via Waterhouses and Cauldon Lowe, and Staffordshire County Council is currently out to tender for a replacement service 109 to operate from Leek to Macclesfield from Thursday 9th September.

We apologise for any disruption caused to our passengers, but this is out of our control and none of this was caused by D&G Bus. D&G Bus is working in partnership with Staffordshire County Council to minimise disruption following the short notice withdrawal of the commercially provided X1 service.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Again a professional and honest explanation of their position.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I wonder if the owners of the numerous antiques shops in Ashbourne will miss the likely influx of visitors that might have been expected to come on the X1 service from the Greater Manchester area?

I remember the 108 service from Macclesfield direct to Ashbourne being run some years ago by second-hand Arriva minibuses by a small company that had hand-written A4 sized posters taped up advertising 7-day holidays to places far afield. The driver had no ticket machine, but entered the fare information on a ruled pad with a ball-point pen. That being said, the bus kept to time, despite some "interesting" runs up narrow lanes just wide enough for the minibus.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

I wonder if the owners of the numerous antiques shops in Ashbourne will miss the likely influx of visitors that might have been expected to come on the X1 service from the Greater Manchester area?

I remember the 108 service from Macclesfield direct to Ashbourne being run some years ago by second-hand Arriva minibuses by a small company that had hand-written A4 sized posters taped up advertising 7-day holidays to places far afield. The driver had no ticket machine, but entered the fare information on a ruled pad with a ball-point pen. That being said, the bus kept to time, despite some "interesting" runs up narrow lanes just wide enough for the minibus.

That would have been Clowes, 'from up in the hills' as they advertised. Based at Barrowmoor between Leek and Longnor, turn right at The Winking Man. They have some nice coaches but the buses were definitely past their prime. Had one on the 234 from Cheadle to Leek, nearly passed out from the exhaust fumes filling the passenger saloon.

Probably a couple of decades ago now there was a similar period with no service in operation on this route whilst an emergecy operator was found.

 

[nesw]

I did wonder why the X1 timetable wasn’t on Hulley’s website at the weekend, I assumed that I might not have been updated.
I’m not sure how the Traffic Commissioner will view the situation; ok so we are in uncertain times and there’s a shortage of drivers however, it might have been better to launch the new service at a later date, maybe with a more realistic timetable.

 

[Robertj21a]

I did wonder why the X1 timetable wasn’t on Hulley’s website at the weekend, I assumed that I might not have been updated.
I’m not sure how the Traffic Commissioner will view the situation; ok so we are in uncertain times and there’s a shortage of drivers however, it might have been better to launch the new service at a later date, maybe with a more realistic timetable.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

 

[RELL6L]

It is a very honest response, but not one that helps passengers wanting to travel between Macclesfield, Leek, Cauldon Low and Ashbourne. D&G withdrew/curtailed the 108 and 109 services because of the X1 launch. I wonder what these folks will do now?

I have only found details on Staffordshire's website but it does appear that the 108 and 109 have been reinstated; the 108 to Ashbourne with D&G and the 109 to Macclesfield with Aimees. Both were running from yesterday and were shown on Staffordshire council's website - one of the few counties that still shows anything. Top marks to them for organising and publicising so quickly.

 

[Flange Squeal]

I have only found details on Staffordshire's website but it does appear that the 108 and 109 have been reinstated; the 108 to Ashbourne with D&G and the 109 to Macclesfield with Aimees. Both were running from yesterday and were shown on Staffordshire council's website - one of the few counties that still shows anything. Top marks to them for organising and publicising so quickly.

D&G Bus have uploaded an Ashbourne to Leek 108 timetable, effective from 9th September, on their website. Direct link: https://www.dgbus.co.uk/assets/108_2021-09-09.pdf

Aimee's website needs updating as it still says "Please note we no longer operate the following services 108,109, 18, 117", however they have put a timetable and the following statement on their Facebook page.

** CUSTOMER ANNOUNCEMENT**

G.A.GOLDSTRAW AND SON'S
(AIMEE'S TRAVEL)

WOULD LIKE TO ANNOUNCE THAT AS OF THURSDAY 09/09/2021 WE WILL BE SERVING SERVICE 109 LEEK - MACCLESFIELD.

WE APPOLOGISE FOR THE LATE NOTICE BUT WE HAVE BEEN WORKING HARD THROUGHOUT THE DAY TO GET EVERYTHING FINALISED READY FOR THE BIG DAY TOMORROW.

IM SURE THAT YOU ALL HAVE SEEN OVER SOCIAL MEDIA THAT THINGS HAVEN'T GONE QUITE TO PLAN WITH THE NEW X1 SERVICE TAKEOVER BUT ALL OF US AT AIMEE'S TRAVEL WISH HULLEYS ALL THE BEST IN THE FUTURE.

WE WILL BE OPERATING THE SAME TIMETABLE AS D&G CURRENTLY WERE BEFORE THE TAKEOVER WITH PLANS TO IMPROVE IN THE FUTURE.

DUE TO ALL THE LAST MINUTE RUSH THIS SERVICE WILL BE FREE TO ALL CUSTOMERS UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE.

TIMETABLES WILL BE AVAILIBLE ON THE BUS AS OF TOMORROW AND WE WILL HOPEFULLY HAVE OUR WEBSITE UPDATED WITHIN THE NEXT FEW DAYS.

WE LOOK FORWARD TO MEETING ALL OUR OLD CUSTOMERS AND FRIENDS THAT USE THE SERVICE FOR THE 7 YEARS WE OPERATED IT AND LOOK FORWARD TO MEETING NEW CUSTOMERS OVER THE NEXT SEVERAL YEARS.

SHOULD YOU REQUIRE A TIMETABLE CALL LOUISE ON 01538 385050 OR EMAIL [email protected] AND LOUISE CAN FORWARD YOU ONE OVER.

I GARY JNR WILL BE OVERSEEING THE NEW OPERATION AND LOOK FORWARD TO SPEAKING AND MEETING YOU ALL IN THE NEAR FUTURE.

 

[daodao]

Has the 109 (Macclesfield - Leek) actually been restored? There is no mention of it on:

• The Cheshire East Council website
• Traveline
• The D&G website (they have restored the 108)
• Bustimes.org

The Traveline Midlands website is obsolescent and presumably not being updated; it will cease to be available in 2 weeks hence.

The last but one operator (Aimees) states on their website under services "Please note we no longer operate the following services 108, 109, 18, 117."

Hulley's behaviour in this mess is distinctly sub-optimal. They should never have tried to launch a service that they couldn't resource. An investigation by the Traffic Commissioners may be appropriate.

 

[Flange Squeal]

Has the 109 (Macclesfield - Leek) actually been restored? There is no mention of it on:

• The Cheshire East Council website
• Traveline
• The D&G website (they have restored the 108)
• Bustimes.org

The Traveline Midlands website is obsolescent and presumably not being updated; it will cease to be available in 2 weeks hence.

The last but one operator (Aimees) states on their website under services "Please note we no longer operate the following services 108, 109, 18, 117."

Hulley's behaviour in this mess is distinctly sub-optimal. They should never have tried to launch a service that they couldn't resource. An investigation by the Traffic Commissioners may be appropriate.

The post directly above yours includes a statement from Aimees regarding the 109, and a link to their Facebook page with the timetable.

It is listed on the Leek page of the Staffordshire County Council website, with the timetable here: https://www.staffordshire.gov.uk/Transport/buses/Plan-your-journey/Aimees-Travel-109-timetable.aspx

Here is a further statement from Aimees' Facebook page from five days ago:-

** SERICE 109 LEEK - MACCLESFIELD**

WE WOULD PERSONALLY LIKE TO THANK EVERYONE WHO HAS USED THE 109 MACCLESFIELD SERVICE SINCE WE TOOK IT OVER THIS WEEK. ALL YOUR COMMENT'S AND KIND WORDS HAVE MADE US ALL FEEL WELCOME BACK AND I MUST SAY ITS GREAT FOR US TO BE BACK AGAIN SEEING YOU ALL.

JUST TO GIVE YOU AN UPDATE WE HAVE BEEN DEALING WITH THE SUPPLIERS WHO ARE GOING TO BE FITTING OUR NEW TICKETING SYSTEM IN THE VERY NEAR FUTURE GIVING US THE ABILITY TO TAKE CONTACTLESS PAYMETS, WE WILL ALSO BE OFFERING DAY TICKET'S, WEEKLY TICKET'S, MONTHLY TICKET'S AS WELL AS REAL TIME TRACKING AND MUCH MORE.

YESTERDAY WE ALSO WENT OUT AND PURCHASED 3 VEHICLES TO ADD TO OUR SERVICE BUS FLEET, WE SHALL BE WORKING HARD OVER THE NEXT FEW WEEKS TO GET THESE VEHICLES PAINTED INTO OUR COMPANY COLOURS AND LIVERY READY TO HIT THE ROAD AND KEEP PEOPLE MOVING.
THANKYOU AGAIN FOR ALL YOUR SUPPORT AND KIND WORD'S, HERE'S TO THE FUTURE.
MANY THANKS
GARY JNR
AIMEE'S TRAVEL.

 

[Hardcastle]

Has the 109 (Macclesfield - Leek) actually been restored? There is no mention of it on:

• The Cheshire East Council website
• Traveline
• The D&G website (they have restored the 108)
• Bustimes.org

The Traveline Midlands website is obsolescent and presumably not being updated; it will cease to be available in 2 weeks hence.

The last but one operator (Aimees) states on their website under services "Please note we no longer operate the following services 108, 109, 18, 117."

Hulley's behaviour in this mess is distinctly sub-optimal. They should never have tried to launch a service that they couldn't resource. An investigation by the Traffic Commissioners may be appropriate.

I travelled on the 109 Wednesday. Aimies have got the contract which is unregistered at the moment i believe.

 

[carlberry]

Hulley's behaviour in this mess is distinctly sub-optimal. They should never have tried to launch a service that they couldn't resource. An investigation by the Traffic Commissioners may be appropriate.

From Hulleys fairly open and honest sounding statement it appears they tried to launch a service they could resource at the time they had to commit to it. Subsequently they found they couldn't and have admitted that. I suspect that all the Traffic Commissioners could find if they investigated is that Hulleys are as unable to predict the future as anybody else is, and if they were able to they're likely to play the lottery instead of trying to run a bus company.

 

[daodao]

Aimies have got the contract which is unregistered at the moment i believe.

Thank you for the clarification. That possibly explains why service 109 cannot be found via all the usual sources of information about bus services in Cheshire, and why I questioned whether it was actually running.

If a subsidised service isn't publicised properly, it won't be used as much, which puts it at risk. Cheshire East Council, under financial pressure, have gradually been reducing bus subsidies, and typically cut the least-used services when they are reviewed periodically.

From Hulleys fairly open and honest sounding statement it appears they tried to launch a service they could resource at the time they had to commit to it. Subsequently they found they couldn't and have admitted that. I suspect that all the Traffic Commissioners could find if they investigated is that Hulleys are as unable to predict the future as anybody else is, and if they were able to they're likely to play the lottery instead of trying to run a bus company.

Service X1 could have been pulled a few days before the launch so that existing service arrangements could have continued.

The management of change can be challenging, and is something that many transport operators do sub-optimally.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Cheshire East Council, under financial pressure, have gradually been reducing bus subsidies, and typically cut the least-used services when they are reviewed periodically.

This is nothing new for Cheshire East council. They have acted so for a good number of years now.

 

[SCH117X]

Service X1 could have been pulled a few days before the launch so that existing service arrangements could have continued.

To quote from the now vanished Hulleys facebook posting copied up the thread "At the end of last week however, a number of Drivers expected to return to work from sickness absence indicated they wouldn’t be doing so. Other new Drivers who were expected to start this Monday informed us they no longer be joining, and another Driver fell ill." How much quicker do you think they could have pulled it?

 

[daodao]

To quote from the now vanished Hulleys facebook posting copied up the thread "At the end of last week however, a number of Drivers expected to return to work from sickness absence indicated they wouldn’t be doing so. Other new Drivers who were expected to start this Monday informed us they no longer be joining, and another Driver fell ill." How much quicker do you think they could have pulled it?

That posting suggests that Hulleys knew by Friday 3/9/21 that there might be difficulties with the roster for the new service. Even pulling it then would have been better than after "go live".

 

[323235]

They were talking to Staffordshire and Derbyshire County Council though weren't they which is what delayed the announcement.

 

[Ianno87]

That posting suggests that Hulleys knew by Friday 3/9/21 that there might be difficulties with the roster for the new service. Even pulling it then would have been better than after "go live".

You can't just not operate a service after you've registered it. Presumably the Wednesday was the soonest they could "officially" get it withdrawn from, and had no choice but to attempt it for a couple of days.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

There are other ways of dealing with staff shortage, or vehicle availability, instead of complete abandonment.

Many bus companies use agency staff, sometimes over an extended period of time. Vehicles, although not relevant to this incident, can be leased short term from well known dealerships or hired from other bus companies. Another company could fulfill the entire service registration using their own staff and vehicles, with a notice in the window 'on hire to x'.

 

[GusB]

There are other ways of dealing with staff shortage, or vehicle availability, instead of complete abandonment.

Many bus companies use agency staff, sometimes over an extended period of time. Vehicles, although not relevant to this incident, can be leased short term from well known dealerships or hired from other bus companies. Another company could fulfill the entire service registration using their own staff and vehicles, with a notice in the window 'on hire to x'.

From what I've read so far, the shortages are right across the board. There's also no guarantee that there will be availability of agency staff, either because they've already been snapped up by companies that have shortages, or because agency drivers have opted for better paid work in other sectors, or headed back to their home countries. It was mentioned in the First East Scotland thread the other day that there were some agency drivers that had come up from London to work.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

From what I've read so far, the shortages are right across the board. There's also no guarantee that there will be availability of agency staff, either because they've already been snapped up by companies that have shortages, or because agency drivers have opted for better paid work in other sectors, or headed back to their home countries. It was mentioned in the First East Scotland thread the other day that there were some agency drivers that had come up from London to work.

Indeed, as with the HGV driver shortage. The long term decline in staff terms and conditions is perhaps coming home to roost.

 

[Killingworth]

There are other ways of dealing with staff shortage, or vehicle availability, instead of complete abandonment.

Many bus companies use agency staff, sometimes over an extended period of time. Vehicles, although not relevant to this incident, can be leased short term from well known dealerships or hired from other bus companies. Another company could fulfill the entire service registration using their own staff and vehicles, with a notice in the window 'on hire to x'.

Hulley's are based at Baslow, a village, not a large town. There aren't many drivers available locally to be recruited without quite a long journey to work. Same applies for hiring in drivers from agencies or other companies and that would have to be priced into the cost of the operation.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Hulley's are based at Baslow, a village, not a large town. There aren't many drivers available locally to be recruited without quite a long journey to work. Same applies for hiring in drivers from agencies or other companies and that would have to be priced into the cost of the operation.

It is a village, but it is in easy striking distance by car of Sheffield and Chesterfield, and I'm sure driving rural buses is more fun than urban ones, so if they are having that much trouble it is probably that they are just not paying enough.

 

[Llandudno]

It is a village, but it is in easy striking distance by car of Sheffield and Chesterfield, and I'm sure driving rural buses is more fun than urban ones, so if they are having that much trouble it is probably that they are just not paying enough.

They were advertising recently offering £10 an hour…

Possibly the reason why they are struggling to recruit especially when you add on travelling costs/time to get to the beautiful Peak District village of Baslow!

 

[markymark2000]

There are other ways of dealing with staff shortage, or vehicle availability, instead of complete abandonment.

Many bus companies use agency staff, sometimes over an extended period of time. Vehicles, although not relevant to this incident, can be leased short term from well known dealerships or hired from other bus companies. Another company could fulfill the entire service registration using their own staff and vehicles, with a notice in the window 'on hire to x'.

Using other operators would only work on the standalone routes. It wouldn't have worked on the X1 because of the interworking so they would have caused more issues on the X57 too.
Agency drivers, similar story. You would have to put them on the standalone routes else you'd be spending a fortnight training them as Hulleys InterWorks almost everything.


You can overcome those issues but then you have to consider the cost of doing so. Agencies are £20ph or so I believe for drivers. Around double the Hulleys wage making routes unviable since many routes seem marginal.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Using other operators would only work on the standalone routes. It wouldn't have worked on the X1 because of the interworking so they would have caused more issues on the X57 too.
Agency drivers, similar story. You would have to put them on the standalone routes else you'd be spending a fortnight training them as Hulleys InterWorks almost everything.


You can overcome those issues but then you have to consider the cost of doing so. Agencies are £20ph or so I believe for drivers. Around double the Hulleys wage making routes unviable since many routes seem marginal.

That is the cost of doing business. You can run on a shoestring, hoping it all goes perfect, or you can live in the real world and accept disruptions WILL occur and that they have to be allowed for - financially and in terms of resources (spare buses or drivers). Hulley's choose to have extravagant inter-workings. Perhaps standalone services would be more reliable and easier to understand for all concerned. A hiccup in Ashbourne should not mean that passengers in Ladybower cannot return home to Sheffield from their day by the reservoir.

A close look at the timetables shows that the X1 and X57 don't actually agree with each other anyway. Sometimes merely by the name of stop (Airport Interchange or Viewing Park at the same time), one 'through journey' missing itself by a considerable margin.

I was looking forward, back in March 2020, to the new X71 Sunday service from Hanley to Bakewell but was worried about there only being a single out and return option, easily delayed or missed altogether, with no realistic alternatives. I guess my worries were not entirely groundless. It will take a long period of faultless operation before I put myself in the hands of this operator.

 

[Robertj21a]

That is the cost of doing business. You can run on a shoestring, hoping it all goes perfect, or you can live in the real world and accept disruptions WILL occur and that they have to be allowed for - financially and in terms of resources (spare buses or drivers). Hulley's choose to have extravagant inter-workings. Perhaps standalone services would be more reliable and easier to understand for all concerned. A hiccup in Ashbourne should not mean that passengers in Ladybower cannot return home to Sheffield from their day by the reservoir.

A close look at the timetables shows that the X1 and X57 don't actually agree with each other anyway. Sometimes merely by the name of stop (Airport Interchange or Viewing Park at the same time), one 'through journey' missing itself by a considerable margin.

I was looking forward, back in March 2020, to the new X71 Sunday service from Hanley to Bakewell but was worried about there only being a single out and return option, easily delayed or missed altogether, with no realistic alternatives. I guess my worries were not entirely groundless. It will take a long period of faultless operation before I put myself in the hands of this operator.

Sorry, that seems a way over the top reaction to me. Hulleys are clearly trying very hard to be innovative but all they get is some stick for a hiccup that was just an unfortunate combination of events.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Sorry, that seems a way over the top reaction to me. Hulleys are clearly trying very hard to be innovative but all they get is some stick for a hiccup that was just an unfortunate combination of events.

"a hiccup that was just an unfortunate combination of events" may be fine for the spotter or photographer who missed that rare opportunity to ride, tick-off or photo bus number xyz on new route 123, but it doesn't cut much mustard if you were reliant on service X1 (as replacement for the 108 or 109) to do your grocery shopping, or get to an appointment of some kind. These are not areas in which it is easy to get a taxi at short notice, nor is it a short hop at low cost. Leaving passengers in the lurch seems to be accepted practice in the world of bus operators, both big and small.

Perhaps Hulleys should stop trying to be 'innovative' and stick to the knitting. Registering a new commercial route, many miles from your home depot, in very thin bus operating territory where the existing route has been subsidised for decades seemed, shall we say, a very courageous decision minister.