Standardising restrictions would be my first thing, so 8A or 8X SVR would become SOR with the price averaged between current SOR and SVR. Define Off-Peak as the same everywhere in the country for every single TOC.
Most Advance fare schemes seem to have 3 tiers. I'd introduce another seperate Advance only available from 1-7 days before travel so it wasn't being sold out months before the train.
I'd also have two seperate calculations for First Class fares. FC with no complimentary 1.6x standard fare, FC with 1.8x standard fare.
All TOCs who have first class to sell FDR, FVR and FOR ticket types.
I'd also introduce day returns for all journeys up to 200miles, both peak and off peak for people doing day trips.
ashworth said:Cheap Day Return Tickets should be significantly cheaper even than Off Peak Returns and should be available for all return journeys that are practically possible in one day. Even journeys like London to Edinburgh.
I'd also make sure there wasn't instances where SVRs exist but not SORs.
Advance tickets can be obtained for this journey by booking from Nottingham to Glasgow or Edinburgh via Appleby. For example, Advance Nottingham - Glasgow route VWC & Connections currently available for travel at 1515 on 9 January for £18 (or £11.90 with a Railcard).Advance Purchase Tickets ...
They should be available for all journeys (and all permitted routes and all connections) over approx 50 miles and not just what the TOC's want to sell.
For example Nottingham to Carlisle changing at Leeds is at present not possible because both trains are run by Northern who do not do AP.
I would just charge about 10p per mile in standard class, and 20p per mile in first class, on the shortest or specified route with no extra charges for using a specific station (so if I was going from Birmingham new street to station A which is x miles away, it would cost the same as going from station A to station B which is another x miles away) and have these ticket types:
advance - booked before day of travel, cheapest tickets, always 25% of the off peak tickets no matter when booked or when travelling e.g A to B £100 off peak, £25 in advance, can be mailed to you or collected from a station on the day of travel
my system may be too simple but I know almost nothing about the ticketing system so I think that the simplest is the best
I would just charge about 10p per mile in standard class, and 20p per mile in first class...
Why? As far as I can tell this hasn't been implemented at present due to the very low numbers of passengers attempting long distance journeys in one single day. Certainly doesn't seem like a rationale decision to me and certainly not an economically sensible decision for a TOC?Originally Posted by ashworth
Cheap Day Return Tickets should be significantly cheaper even than Off Peak Returns and should be available for all return journeys that are practically possible in one day. Even journeys like London to Edinburgh.
Advance tickets can be obtained for this journey by booking from Nottingham to Glasgow or Edinburgh via Appleby. For example, Advance Nottingham - Glasgow route VWC & Connections currently available for travel at 1515 on 9 January for £18 (or £11.90 with a Railcard).
Standardising restrictions would be my first thing, so 8A or 8X SVR would become SOR with the price averaged between current SOR and SVR.
Back in 1985 (I think) BR restricted many day returns to about 50 miles, a retrograde step in my view. People were forced to buy the more expensive saver tickets. A return to longer distance CDRs would be a good idea.
So are we suggesting all rail travellers who go to the nrm, stratford, and all other tourist attractions stay the night?
That's boulders, there is plenty of demand for distance day returns in the leisure market.
Incidnetally you say you've seen no evidence of a demand for day trips over 60 miles. What would you expect to see? The sales of advance singles, off peak and anyime returns will not provide you with any evidence at all. I have, on the other hand, had a fair number of customers express their desire for a longer distance day return than currently exists.
My 'brief glance' at the fares structure has involved 13 years of dealing with customers and selling tickets of all varieties to them. None of my suggestions are naive, which suggests I've been ignorant in my simplified use of information.
No London to Edinburgh isn't under 200 miles, but someone other than yourself (ashworth in this case, who I quoted in my original reply) stated that they wished to see London to Edinburgh have a CDR fare :roll:People have been talking of day trips between London and Edinburgh, last time I checked that isn't under 200miles, which was my suggested distance for day trips (maybe 150 would be more appropriate, but currently it's too short).
Finally thank you for you offer of 'showing me how to use data', where would I be without you to guide me?
I certainly don't need you to patronise me and accuse me of self serving on fare suggestions when you also self serve by posting thread links of yours. It would be more useful to post links to the data and studies you mention, rather than suggesting I may need education from you in order to utilise them.
I would take fare-setting powers away from TOCs and give them to an independent body. The body would have a mandate to balance the TOC revenue against the public benefit of rail travel.
Right, when the OP asked for suggestions to modify the fares structure I didn't realise it would be possible to point out the errors (I never thought my post would be error free anyhow) in peoples suggestions without coming up with any of your own. My own text being condescending was a direct response to your suggestion that I may need help in using studies data. The fact that you still don't seem to care/notice that you appear to be giving instructions from above to all of those below you is what has made you come across as arrogant. This may just be a problem with the medium of text, as I cannot hear tone of speech etc. So I shall retreat and await your (hopefully) fault free and study friendly fares suggestions.
Well until the early 70s, distance priced ticketing had worked since the inception of railways.what price would Peterborough to Nottingham be?
also what price would Peterborough to Leicester be?
what price would York to Whitby be?
let's see if you can be the first person to suggest distance based pricing to not avoid those questions !
Well until the early 70s, distance priced ticketing had worked since the inception of railways.
So pray do tell what is the issue with the journeys that you quote, and which were previously distance charged.
A Chester - Nottingham route Stoke on Trent CDR costs £16.70 until 1 January, £17.00 from 2 January, is available M-F from 0830 departing Chester, and is permitted via Liverpool using maps CH+EM. Break of journey is explicitly allowed, so the ticket can be used from and to Liverpool.Personally I'd like to see CDR fares: ...
Liverpool-Nottingham - (currently only very expensive, SOS, SVR, SOR fares) ...
Break of journey is not allowed with a £22 Super Off-Peak Return (OPR) Liverpool - London route London Midland only.Liverpool-Birmingham - If off peak you may as well buy a £22 OPR to London and break at Birmingham