Idea for Class 37s on the Highland Line.

[03_179]

I was looking through old photos from 1988 & 1991 and our trips along the Kyle and Thurso lines with a couple of MKIIs and a cl.37.

I remember on one trip (1993) an American moaned that the last time he was on the train it was 'a proper train and he could open a window and see out.' This while sitting on a Sprinter.

Do you guys think that if Scotrail brought a couple cl.37s and coaches back to the Highland lines during certain times of the year they would increase the loadings.

I would not have to be every day but I'm fairly sure there would be an interest. After all the cl.37s from Norwich to Yarmouth and the Cumbrian services have generated a fair bit of interest.

 

[AlterEgo]

I'm sure it would increase loadings very slightly because there would be one or two cranks on every working.

However it would be far more expensive to run and much less reliable, which is why it won't happen.

Railways are run for getting people from A to B, not for enthusiasts!

 

[Essexman]

I'd like to see a daily loco hauled train to Kyle of Lochalsh in the summer, with suitable timings for a day trip. (Same on Settle-Carlise too). I don't think it need be steam like Mallaig but a less cramped, 'proper train' would attract tourists, more easily accommodate coach parties, plus bring in enthusiasts.

The first time I went on the Kyle line (1984) there was just such a train. Journeys since in summer have been on very busy trains. Less so when I travelled last week and often better views in winter without leaves on trees.

 

[Greenback]

I don't think that's a bad idea for the Kyle Line. I've been on it in Summer, and a two car unti can get very busy indeed.

 

[najaB]

If it was run in addition to existing services then go for it.

 

[jopsuk]

excursion trains such as the Royal Scotsman do run to Kyle, so operationally it must be do-able

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I would not have to be every day but I'm fairly sure there would be an interest. After all the cl.37s from Norwich to Yarmouth and the Cumbrian services have generated a fair bit of interest.

From run of the mill punters or just enthusiasts though?

 

[47802]

I was looking through old photos from 1988 & 1991 and our trips along the Kyle and Thurso lines with a couple of MKIIs and a cl.37.

I remember on one trip (1993) an American moaned that the last time he was on the train it was 'a proper train and he could open a window and see out.' This while sitting on a Sprinter.

Do you guys think that if Scotrail brought a couple cl.37s and coaches back to the Highland lines during certain times of the year they would increase the loadings.

I would not have to be every day but I'm fairly sure there would be an interest. After all the cl.37s from Norwich to Yarmouth and the Cumbrian services have generated a fair bit of interest.

Well I suspect any extra revenue generated on the Cumbrian Coast has been wiped out by fed up regular travellers deserting the unreliable service, and as has already mentioned any extra revenue generated will be minimal compared to the extra cost of operating these trains.

Of course there is place for 37's its called the Scrap yard.

If you really want to generate interest not just amongst enthusiasts then you need a kettle job.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

If you really want to generate interest not just amongst enthusiasts then you need a kettle job.

Indeed, imagine how widely it would have been reported and how many laymen would have flocked to the S&C a couple of weeks ago if the trains had been top n' tail 67s...

ScotRail are working on refurbishing the 158s and creating the 'Great Scenic Rail Journeys of Scotland' brand, so it will be interesting to see the impact that has on tourism on the Kyle line etc. Steam efforts in Scotland have already been tried on the Borders line of course.

 

[theageofthetra]

Have a look at what some Japanese lines have done with refurbished run of the mill old units (very much their equivalent of a 158). Used on several scenic lines, heavily loaded and interiors built using designs from local craftsmen. Beyond me why no one has the gumption to do the same here.

 

[route101]

I took the Glasgow to Inverness service last week and while 170s are comfortable i feel the HST will be welcomed on this route , I hot buffet would be nice too

 

[Clansman]

I'm sure it would increase loadings very slightly because there would be one or two cranks on every working.

However it would be far more expensive to run and much less reliable, which is why it won't happen.

Railways are run for getting people from A to B, not for enthusiasts!

This.

The majority of Far North passengers are just regular commuters, so why would a 37 and a rake of coaches make any viable difference to the route other than pacifying enthusiasts?

A 4-car 158 does the trick and is cheaper and easier to run, has working air conditioning (refurbished units), and all windows are permanently sealed to keep in the heat. There is no benefit what so ever running loco hauled day services consisting of 37s and MkIIs in place of DMUs on the basis that they are classed as "proper trains". If you were to suggest something which has more potential such as replacing the 158s with newer high powered DMUs or introducing a direct link to the Central Belt in the form of HSTs or DMUs etc, then you'd have a decent proposal. But to suggest running the odd loco hauled 37 and MkIIs sounds more nostalgic than logical, and would overall be a worse service for passengers and a money drainer for Scotrail at the expense of pleasing enthusiasts.

Sounds too far fetched in my opinion

 

[DarloRich]

Nice idea what would be fun but it ain't never gonna happen

 

[Bertie the bus]

I would not have to be every day but I'm fairly sure there would be an interest. After all the cl.37s from Norwich to Yarmouth and the Cumbrian services have generated a fair bit of interest.

Norwich is less than 2 hours from London and Preston is easily accessible for people from the North West and large areas of Yorkshire and the Midlands so you can’t really compare the level of interest amongst enthusiasts for those 2 to a service from Inverness.

 

[David Andrews]

Just got off a class 37 train on the Cumbrian coast line which broke down at St Bees (it would go backwards) and spent almost two hours going four miles and back. These old sets break down frequently. Northern have a spare set and intend to have two extra locos available, one staffed all day to improve reliability. They are also around 20% slower for journeys than DMUs. They do have good visibility and comfortable seats and usually run in four coach sets rather than two coach DMUs but are difficult to get into and out of, particularly opening doors from inside. The far north line already takes longer than the bus so perhaps a sleeper would be called for...

 

[najaB]

The far north line already takes longer than the bus so perhaps a sleeper would be called for...

Interesting that you mention that, have a read of this.

 

[Jonny]

Just got off a class 37 train on the Cumbrian coast line which broke down at St Bees (it would go backwards) and spent almost two hours going four miles and back. These old sets break down frequently. Northern have a spare set and intend to have two extra locos available, one staffed all day to improve reliability. They are also around 20% slower for journeys than DMUs. They do have good visibility and comfortable seats and usually run in four coach sets rather than two coach DMUs but are difficult to get into and out of, particularly opening doors from inside. The far north line already takes longer than the bus so perhaps a sleeper would be called for...

Well, maybe a new-build loco and coaching stock similar to KiwiRail Scenic would do the trick. As someone who has experienced both, such rolling stock would make a good combination.

Although the viewing cars on KiwiRail Scenic would probably leave the HSE needing a defibrilator!

 

[Envoy]

I bet that a lot of people who go on scenic train rides in the highlands of Scotland and the scenic lines in Wales, would love to have windows that open in at least one coach so that they can take photos. Perhaps the 153’s could have modified windows for this and be tacked onto 158’s when they become available?

 

[route:oxford]

I remember on one trip (1993) an American moaned that the last time he was on the train it was 'a proper train and he could open a window and see out.' This while sitting on a Sprinter.

What an odd thing for an American to say. They started operating air-conditioned stock over there in the 1940s.

I bet that a lot of people who go on scenic train rides in the highlands of Scotland and the scenic lines in Wales, would love to have windows that open in at least one coach so that they can take photos. Perhaps the 153’s could have modified windows for this and be tacked onto 158’s when they become available?

Clean windows would be just as helpful.

 

[route:oxford]

Clean windows would be just as helpful.

Just thinking about this, you can't do much about the weather, but I wonder if it's possible to do a Section 75 if a journey is sold as "scenic" but the windows are so filthy that you can't take reasonable pictures.

 

[Mag_seven]

Railways are run for getting people from A to B, not for enthusiasts!

But we are talking about the scenic lines of Scotland here where a large proportion of the traffic are tourists who want a decent view out of a seat that lines up with a clean window. Loco hauled stock delivers that.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

But we are talking about the scenic lines of Scotland here where a large proportion of the traffic are tourists who want a decent view out of a seat that lines up with a clean window. Loco hauled stock delivers that.

As do I believe the majority of the seats on the refurbished 158s which are being dedicated / cascaded to them...

 

[43096]

I bet that a lot of people who go on scenic train rides in the highlands of Scotland and the scenic lines in Wales, would love to have windows that open in at least one coach so that they can take photos. Perhaps the 153’s could have modified windows for this and be tacked onto 158’s when they become available?

So, how many trains in the UK have windows you can open to take photos out of?

I'll tell you: none. We've never had the big opening drop windows that you get in continental Europe. Further, there is no chance of it happening. Given all the flapping about railtours and people (shall we say) leaning out of windows in recent years, can you see anyone signing off a risk assessment on having big opening windows in the saloon?

 

[najaB]

So, how many trains in the UK have windows you can open to take photos out of?

I'll tell you: none.

Not entirely true. Vestibule windows in Mk3's are often used by photographers.

 

[43096]

Not entirely true. Vestibule windows in Mk3's are often used by photographers.

True - but I was really thinking of the saloons.

 

[6Gman]

The days of poking cameras and heads through window apertures are in the past.

H&S, litigation, risk assessments ...

 

[Jonny]

The days of poking cameras and heads through window apertures are in the past.

H&S, litigation, risk assessments ...

Never mind a viewing car with no glass whatsoever (such as described here: http://www.seat61.com/northern-explorer.htm )

 

[RichmondCommu]

The days of poking cameras and heads through window apertures are in the past.

H&S, litigation, risk assessments ...

Not to mention people having their heads knocked off.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

So, how many trains in the UK have windows you can open to take photos out of?

It is in fact quite easy to take good pictures through windows - the trick to avoiding reflections is to get the lens right up to the glass.

 

[najaB]

It is in fact quite easy to take good pictures through windows - the trick to avoiding reflections is to get the lens right up to the glass.

And hope the the sun is at an angle which reduces internal reflections between the panes.