If you took over East Midlands Trains, what would you do?

[Qwerty133]

If you are going 5tph to Leicester then something like:
- Nottingham fast
- Nottingham semi-fast
- Derby semi-fast
- Sheffield fast via Derby
- Sheffield fast via Erewash (calls Leicester, Chesterfield and Sheffield only)

Either that or the 5th service incorporates the Ivanhoe line stops, or continues to Matlock in order to free up a sprinter or 2 elsewhere in the franchise.

 

[Mitch in Notts]

This. I live in Coalville and public transport is near non-existant. I actually dont think it is possible to leave on a Sunday either!

Bit of an exaggeration. 4 daytime buses an hour to Leicester, hourly Sunday service. Half hourly service to Burton on Trent, hourly Sunday. Hourly 7 day service to the Airport & Nottingham. Hourly Mon-Sat to Loughborough & Hinckley. There are quite a few towns that can only dream of service levels like that. The biggest fault for Coalville is that the routes to Leicester go round everywhere and there is no longer anything that is close to direct from the town centre.

 

[43096]

Either that or the 5th service incorporates the Ivanhoe line stops, or continues to Matlock in order to free up a sprinter or 2 elsewhere in the franchise.

You could send the Derby semi-fast up to Matlock?

 

[4-SUB 4732]

If you are going 5tph to Leicester then something like:
- Nottingham fast
- Nottingham semi-fast
- Derby semi-fast
- Sheffield fast via Derby
- Sheffield fast via Erewash (calls Leicester, Chesterfield and Sheffield only)

Definitely scope for a Sheffield super fast up the Erewash. Doesn't even need to stop at Chesterfield to be honest - there's an XC that doesn't stop each hour if I remember rightly which could instead to provide the relevant capacity. Chesterfield hardly needs a half-hourly service all day.

 

[4-SUB 4732]

XX00 Sheffield semi-fast (STP, LEI, LOU, DBY, BEL, CHE, SHF)
XX03 Derby slow (STP, LUA, BDM, WEL, KET, MKH, LEI, EMP, LOE, DBY)
XX18 Nottingham semi-fast (STP, LUT, LEI, EMP, BEE, NOT)
XX30 Sheffield express (STP, LEI, EMP, SHF)
XX33 Corby slow (STP, LUA, BDM, WEL, KET, COR)
XX48 Nottingham semi-fast (STP, MKH, LEI, LOU, NOT)

 

[43096]

XX00 Sheffield semi-fast (STP, LEI, LOU, DBY, BEL, CHE, SHF)

Odd route for it to call at Cheam.....

 

[Qwerty133]

XX00 Sheffield semi-fast (STP, LEI, LOU, DBY, BEL, CHE, SHF)
XX03 Derby slow (STP, LUA, BDM, WEL, KET, MKH, LEI, EMP, LOE, DBY)
XX18 Nottingham semi-fast (STP, LUT, LEI, EMP, BEE, NOT)
XX30 Sheffield express (STP, LEI, EMP, SHF)
XX33 Corby slow (STP, LUA, BDM, WEL, KET, COR)
XX48 Nottingham semi-fast (STP, MKH, LEI, LOU, NOT)

Dump the EMP stop on the Sheffield express add LOU to the Derby slow and that's about right. Possibly also extend the Derby slow to Matlock and use the freed sprinter to extent the Derby to Crewe back to Nottingham.

 

[Andrewh32]

I know everyone else is talking about the mainline but being from Peterborough I don't use it, so for me :-

I would establish a small depot in Peterborough in order to extend the hours of operation of the Peterborough to Lincoln service & base a couple if 158s in order for a earlier start & later finish in Peterborough of the Norwich service.

One thing I would do in general is see what stock is coming off lease elsewhere eg I've not heard of a home for GAs 170s & 156s would make a welcome short to medium time boast to EMT

 

[4-SUB 4732]

I know everyone else is talking about the mainline but being from Peterborough I don't use it, so for me :-

I would establish a small depot in Peterborough in order to extend the hours of operation of the Peterborough to Lincoln service & base a couple if 158s in order for a earlier start & later finish in Peterborough of the Norwich service.

One thing I would do in general is see what stock is coming off lease elsewhere eg I've not heard of a home for GAs 170s & 156s would make a welcome short to medium time boast to EMT

I think a lot of people would say there needs to be a regular, clockface hourly service from Peterborough to Doncaster via Spalding, Lincoln and Gainsborough. That would be the ideal situation and yes it would be best for said trains to start from Spalding as early as 05:30 to Peterborough with up to a 23:00 off Peterborough down to Spalding.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Run the service level commitment that will be handed down from above , by the DfT.

Doubt if anything else would be commercial.

 

[Skymonster]

I wouldn't want to take it over because from the long distance point of view MML is going to go even further down hill (already has under Stagecoach, but that's a different matter).

Two years ago, long distance passengers using the MML could look forward to end-to-end electrification, faster journeys, and new trains. Now the prospect of electrification of much of the northern end of route is gone, many long distance services are being slowed down to fit around commuter trains in the south, and the prospect of new trains - which initially seemed likely to be electric, then more recently bimode - is receding yet further seemingly out of preference for retaining some clapped out HST power cars hauling around castoff Mk 4s from East Coast.

For many years MML was the poor cousin of the east and west coast lines, and it seemed like electrification and all that came with it might finally redress the balance. It's now more likely that it'll continue to be by far the least appealing long-distance north-south franchise from a customer point of view. What a terrible way to treat customers.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

A seasoned railway "old lag" , always referred to the MML as the A5 of the network.

 

[ashworth]

I wouldn't want to take it over because from the long distance point of view MML is going to go even further down hill (already has under Stagecoach, but that's a different matter).

Two years ago, long distance passengers using the MML could look forward to end-to-end electrification, faster journeys, and new trains. Now the prospect of electrification of much of the northern end of route is gone, many long distance services are being slowed down to fit around commuter trains in the south, and the prospect of new trains - which initially seemed likely to be electric, then more recently bimode - is receding yet further seemingly out of preference for retaining some clapped out HST power cars hauling around castoff Mk 4s from East Coast.

For many years MML was the poor cousin of the east and west coast lines, and it seemed like electrification and all that came with it might finally redress the balance. It's now more likely that it'll continue to be by far the least appealing long-distance north-south franchise from a customer point of view. What a terrible way to treat customers.

I feel very much the same about the other routes away from the MML. Here, I do think that Stagecoach have done a fantastic job of refurbishing and maintaining the terrible clapped out selection of 153’s, 156’s and 158’s they inherited. A general shortage of stock throughout the franchise has not helped to improve matters especially in Lincolnshire and routes like Derby to Crewe.

I know that EMT have not had to contend with pacers but most of their stock is as old as for example Northerns, although much better looked after. There are to be new local trains for the North, West Midlands and many other areas. No announcements have yet been made regarding any new trains for local services in the East Midlands when the franchise finally comes up for renewal, but I am beginning to wonder whether we will just be keeping what we already have plus, as before, some more cast offs from other areas.

 

[Amanda]

I'm just going to sit in the corner and wave the Derby-Crewe flag.

If I could change anything it would be to put a more frequent Sunday service on this route.

I live in Nottingham (Hucknall) but am from Stoke and if I go home for the weekend the earliest I can get home on a Sunday is teatime as the first train back from Stoke is about 2:30pm.

I have done it earlier once by paying a small fortune to go via Tamworth but, honestly, just put an extra train or two on earlier. Even just an hour earlier, ANYTHING.

 

[DanTrain]

Running 6tph out of STP, I might do something like this:

• STP - Chesterfield - Sheffield
• STP - Leicester - Loughborough - Derby - (Belper 2 hourly) - Chesterfield - Sheffield (1p2hr to Leeds via Barnsley and Wakey Kirkgate)
• STP - Leicester - Loughborough - Nottz
• STP - Bedford (pick up) - Kettering - Market Harborough - Leicester - EMP - Beeston - Notts
• STP - Luton AP (pick up) - Wellingborough - Market H - Leicester - Loughborough - EMP - Derby (some extensions to Matlock)
• STP - St Albans (pick up) - Luton (pick up) - Bedford (pick up) - Wellingborough - Kettering - Corby (ideally a good 8 or 10 car train)

That is:

• Sheffield and Chesterfield- 2tph (semi fast and super fast)
• Notts - 2tph (fast and semi fast)
• Derby - 2tph (fastish and semi fast)
• Loughborough - 3tph
• EMP - 2tph
• Leicester - 4tph
• Market H - 2tph
• Wellingborough - 2tph
• Kettering - 2tph
• Corby 1tph
• Bedford - 2tph to the north only
• Luton, Luton AP and St Albans - 1tph to the North only

The main changes are:

• Removing Leicester from a Sheffield super fast, it’s not necessary, 4tph is plenty for Leicester.
• Adding St Albans, Luton, Luton AP and Bedford to various services - these are badly served at the moment and could do with a link north without doubling back
• Corby 1tph - with an aspiration for another tph on Thameslink through the core.

 

[Qwerty133]

Running 6tph out of STP, I might do something like this:

• STP - Chesterfield - Sheffield
• STP - Leicester - Loughborough - Derby - (Belper 2 hourly) - Chesterfield - Sheffield (1p2hr to Leeds via Barnsley and Wakey Kirkgate)
• STP - Leicester - Loughborough - Nottz
• STP - Bedford (pick up) - Kettering - Market Harborough - Leicester - EMP - Beeston - Notts
• STP - Luton AP (pick up) - Wellingborough - Market H - Leicester - Loughborough - EMP - Derby (some extensions to Matlock)
• STP - St Albans (pick up) - Luton (pick up) - Bedford (pick up) - Wellingborough - Kettering - Corby (ideally a good 8 or 10 car train)

That is:

• Sheffield and Chesterfield- 2tph (semi fast and super fast)
• Notts - 2tph (fast and semi fast)
• Derby - 2tph (fastish and semi fast)
• Loughborough - 3tph
• EMP - 2tph
• Leicester - 4tph
• Market H - 2tph
• Wellingborough - 2tph
• Kettering - 2tph
• Corby 1tph
• Bedford - 2tph to the north only
• Luton, Luton AP and St Albans - 1tph to the North only

The main changes are:

• Removing Leicester from a Sheffield super fast, it’s not necessary, 4tph is plenty for Leicester.
• Adding St Albans, Luton, Luton AP and Bedford to various services - these are badly served at the moment and could do with a link north without doubling back
• Corby 1tph - with an aspiration for another tph on Thameslink through the core.

Absolutely no point in removing stops at Leicester due to the low speed restrictions (and while I have to admit I am biased here) and reducing the service level between Leicester and Sheffield would be a terrible move. Matlock extensions would have to be hourly or not at all due to the nature of the line meaning anything more than an hourly service is impossible and a mix of London and local services would provide a highly inefficient use of units (and quite possibly train crew).

 

[WillPS]

I'm just going to sit in the corner and wave the Derby-Crewe flag.

If I could change anything it would be to put a more frequent Sunday service on this route.

I live in Nottingham (Hucknall) but am from Stoke and if I go home for the weekend the earliest I can get home on a Sunday is teatime as the first train back from Stoke is about 2:30pm.

I have done it earlier once by paying a small fortune to go via Tamworth but, honestly, just put an extra train or two on earlier. Even just an hour earlier, ANYTHING.

I think the signal boxes around Uttoxeter are closed until the afternoon?

It is a total pain though, the Skeg/Nottm/Derby to Crewe service has been vastly reduced in usefulness over the years.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Cannot imagine much call for business from St Albans to Corby ....(or Wellinborough for that matter) , yes you could change.

An easy drive to Nottingham is less than 2 hours. That is a market to aim for.

 

[button_boxer]

Removing Leicester from a Sheffield super fast, it’s not necessary, 4tph is plenty for Leicester.

The value in the Leicester stops isn’t just for the London to Leicester market, it’s about connections for people who want to travel from Sheffield to stations between Leicester and London and vice versa.

 

[DanTrain]

Absolutely no point in removing stops at Leicester due to the low speed restrictions (and while I have to admit I am biased here) and reducing the service level between Leicester and Sheffield would be a terrible move. Matlock extensions would have to be hourly or not at all due to the nature of the line meaning anything more than an hourly service is impossible and a mix of London and local services would provide a highly inefficient use of units (and quite possibly train crew).

The value in the Leicester stops isn’t just for the London to Leicester market, it’s about connections for people who want to travel from Sheffield to stations between Leicester and London and vice versa.

I take the point about having to slow for Leicester, in which case you may as well stop. However, I'm still not sure you need 2tph Leicester to Sheffield on their own merit, I find most of the traffic on the MML is heading to London, there aren't too many people alighting at Leicester southbouund and boarding northbound, few enough that I think 1tph with a decent connection would suffice. In fact, I might be tempted to add a stop at Bedford, Luton or St Albans to the Sheffield via Derby service to allow better connections to the south MML stations, as even Leicester only allows some workable connections due to the skip-stop pattern I'm proposing.

Cannot imagine much call for business from St Albans to Corby ....(or Wellinborough for that matter) , yes you could change.

An easy drive to Nottingham is less than 2 hours. That is a market to aim for.

This is true, I hadn't quite realised this, maybe a stop from the Derby stopper instead, allowing a decent change to Sheffield or Notts (both at least 3tph I think onwards).

As for Matlock, I appreciate the problem there, so maybe just one train SB in the morning and a return in the evening.

I'd also add a stop at Long Eaton to the Sheffield via Derby on the hour it doesn't stop at Belper.

 

[cactustwirly]

I don't get this obsession of removing stops off the Sheffield service, then slowing down every other service with extra stops, then having random services to random insignificant places.

The Monday to Saturday timetable (before it is ruined in May) works well at the moment.
The Sunday timetable is the one that needs improving.

 

[cactustwirly]

Running 6tph out of STP, I might do something like this:

• STP - Chesterfield - Sheffield
• STP - Leicester - Loughborough - Derby - (Belper 2 hourly) - Chesterfield - Sheffield (1p2hr to Leeds via Barnsley and Wakey Kirkgate)
• STP - Leicester - Loughborough - Nottz
• STP - Bedford (pick up) - Kettering - Market Harborough - Leicester - EMP - Beeston - Notts
• STP - Luton AP (pick up) - Wellingborough - Market H - Leicester - Loughborough - EMP - Derby (some extensions to Matlock)
• STP - St Albans (pick up) - Luton (pick up) - Bedford (pick up) - Wellingborough - Kettering - Corby (ideally a good 8 or 10 car train)

That is:

• Sheffield and Chesterfield- 2tph (semi fast and super fast)
• Notts - 2tph (fast and semi fast)
• Derby - 2tph (fastish and semi fast)
• Loughborough - 3tph
• EMP - 2tph
• Leicester - 4tph
• Market H - 2tph
• Wellingborough - 2tph
• Kettering - 2tph
• Corby 1tph
• Bedford - 2tph to the north only
• Luton, Luton AP and St Albans - 1tph to the North only

The main changes are:

• Removing Leicester from a Sheffield super fast, it’s not necessary, 4tph is plenty for Leicester.
• Adding St Albans, Luton, Luton AP and Bedford to various services - these are badly served at the moment and could do with a link north without doubling back
• Corby 1tph - with an aspiration for another tph on Thameslink through the core.

Why are you removing Derby & Leicester from the Sheffield fast, you're missing out major traffic generators for the sake of a slightly faster journey.

Why are you stopping at Belper? It isn't big enough to warrant an intercity service.

So Leicester is going from 3 to 2 useable trains an hour to London, which is a mistake since there is quite a significant flow from Leicester to London.

Basically your timetable gives Sheffield a slightly faster service, but shafts everyone else.

I would swap EMD and Loughborough around, so that EMD is on the Notts fast.

Personally I would keep the same basic timetable, but give the rolling stock a refurbishment (particularly the HSTs) with new seats and a proper buffet service (not just a stationary trolley)

 

[DanTrain]

• STP - Leicester - Chesterfield - Sheffield
• STP - Leicester - Loughborough - (Long Eaton 1tp2hr) - Derby - Chesterfield - Sheffield (1p2hr to Leeds via Barnsley and Wakefield Kirkgate)
• STP - Leicester - EMP - Notts
• STP - Kettering - Market Harborough - Leicester - Loughborough - Beeston - Notts (2tpd return to Sheffield calling at Ilkeston, Langley Mill and Alfreton)
  
• STP - Luton AP (pick up) - Wellingborough - Market H - Leicester - Loughborough - EMP - Derby (1 return pd to Matlock) (2 returns pdto Sheffield calling Belper, Chesterfield and Dronfield)
  
• STP - St Albans (pick up) - Luton (pick up) - Bedford (pick up) - Wellingborough - Kettering (10 car trains split into 5+5) - Corby (ideally a good 8 or 10 car train) or to Market H - Leicester

Having taken some of the feedback on board, I don't see a point in skipping Leicester at all, but I still see some logic in having a Sheffield fast that skips Derby, made up for by an extra Derby stopper. Ideally there would be a Corby train which would split at Kettering, allowing connections from the Thameslink stations north without slowing down the long distance services. I appreciate this may not be possible come the Corby electrics.

Both Notts and Sheffield now have fast services, calling at Leicester and one other, each with a semi-fast as well, as at the moment.

 

[ricoblade]

I found this thread after seeing this article in the Yorkshire Post yesterday:

https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/new...ly-100-years-ago-could-be-reopened-1-10274025

 

[ohgoditsjames]

I found this thread after seeing this article in the Yorkshire Post yesterday:

https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/new...ly-100-years-ago-could-be-reopened-1-10274025

Seems that the page was deleted, care to elaborate on what it said?

 

[ricoblade]

Seems that the page was deleted, care to elaborate on what it said?

Hmm, It was there this morning when I posted the link!

The gist of it is that the government is looking at opening old railway lines and the new MP for Rother Valley has put forward the South Yorkshire Joint Railway line from Doncaster through Maltby to Shireoaks/Worksop as a possibility as it is still running/has recently been running freight.

 

[johnnychips]

Hmm, It was there this morning when I posted the link!

The gist of it is that the government is looking at opening old railway lines and the new MP for Rother Valley has put forward the South Yorkshire Joint Railway line from Doncaster through Maltby to Shireoaks/Worksop as a possibility as it is still running/has recently been running freight.

Is this in the EM thread as it could be an extension of the Robin Hood Line? It is not a wonderful idea as the line passes the extremities of Wadworth, Tickhill and Maltby well away from their centres. North/South Anston are the only settlements on the railway. True, there are four buses an hour during the day between Doncaster and Worksop but these tend to be patronised by passengers travelling from suburbs to one or the other, rather than representing many through journeys.

Add constraints at Doncaster station to that, especially with the Lincoln going hourly at some stage.

 

[Class 170101]

The Robin Hood Line faces the wrong way in respect of the South Yorkshire Joint Railway and would require a reversal at Workssop would it not?

I think it would be better if the Nottingham to Worksop services were extended to Retford to connect with the ECML services.

 

[Comstock]

Get some benches on the middle of platforms at Derby station.

Just ordinary wooden or metal benches for people to sit on for when the waiting room is full or they prefer to sit outside...

 

[Mugby]

EMR should seriously consider providing a third footbridge at Nottingham Station East end between Platform 2 and that vile abomination which is Platform 4.