If you took over East Midlands Trains, what would you do?

[MG11]

Having read a similar thread on here, I am curious as to what changes you would make to my local TOC. Nothing is off limits here! How would you improve things or tweak things to your liking?

 

[SPADTrap]

Every train would be a HST. Important mainline trains that is.

 

[LowLevel]

Magic up a pile of extra 15x units to give some much needed relief to the local fleet and start running proper Sunday services on the remaining routes lacking them.

 

[387star]

EMT are well regarded ?

It seems everything Stagecoach touch on the railways has proved pretty popular !

Obviously certain routes need more coaches but that is a franchise issue

 

[4-SUB 4732]

Run a standard 6tph service off St Pancras with a Sheffield 'super fast' via the Erewash Valley from Toton; a Sheffield 'fast' via Derby, a Nottingham 'fast', a Nottingham 'slow', a Derby 'slow' and a Corby. Have a bog cart running Corby - Melton - Leicester every hour as well.

 

[Starmill]

Ensure that the prices of the onboard catering were decreased.

 

[CeeJ]

Make sure the barriers are in operation from first service to last at as many stations as possible, especially at STP. Living in Leicester and I don't think I've ever not just walked through the barriers since May.

 

[fowler9]

Make the Liverpool to Norwich service loco hauled and spend loads on booze.

 

[anti-pacer]

I'd replace Northern's Leeds-Nottingham service with an EMT service running Leeds-London St Pancras, but effectively have it running as two services in one - Leeds to Nottingham as is now, then Nottingham to London slow. OK nobody in Leeds is going to use it end to end, but it opens up much needed links between Yorkshire and the East Midlands. I may be biased, but living in Wakefield and having a son in Leicester, I would welcome a better link.

I would take the Liverpool-Norwich service off them and give it to XC, which effectively this service is really.

In terms of London services, I would improve the Sheffield service by running up the Erewash line as suggested previously. Sheffield-Chesterfield-Leicester-London as a fast service, then have the current faster service via Derby as a second train. I would also run a slower Derby-London service shortly after the faster London service has left Derby, providing the link to other towns on the MML.

Nottingham-Worksop would be extended to Retford. I'd also run Skegness-Nottingham services through to Matlock, extend Leicester-Lincoln services to Cleethorpes, and start Derby-Crewe services at Nottingham.

 

[Jordeh]

Extend the Derby-Crewe route to Nottingham, maybe even join up with the Nottingham-Skegness route.

 

[TheAdelante]

Why am I getting dejavous?

I would take VTEC’s HSTs and using those plus the original EMT ones and ex GC ones use those on IC services and use Meridians on all local services, if there aren’t enough keep the 158s too.

 

[roversfan2001]

Ensure that the prices of the onboard catering were decreased.

This should apply to every TOC, some of the prices are ridiculous.

 

[mackeral1234]

Extend the Derby-Crewe route to Nottingham, maybe even join up with the Nottingham-Skegness route.

I have more then one carriage on ie scrap the 153s

 

[anti-pacer]

Why am I getting dejavous?

I would take VTEC’s HSTs and using those plus the original EMT ones and ex GC ones use those on IC services and use Meridians on all local services, if there aren’t enough keep the 158s too.

Really? Have IC stock running local services? But why?

If EMT kept the Liverpool-Norwich services, I would like to see Meridians on that route.

 

[507021]

Interesting thread, here's what I would do.

• I would procure a fleet of 5-car and 10-car Stadler FLIRT bi-modes to replace the Class 43/Mark 3 and Class 222 fleets on the Midland Main Line, releasing the latter to CrossCountry.
• If they were still available, I would lease the remaining five Class 156s going off lease from ScotRail along with the nine Greater Anglia are returning to Porterbrook, ousting the vast majority of the Class 153 fleet.
• I would order some (maybe around four of each variant) 2-car and 3-car Class 230s to replace the remaining Class 153s and deploy those on the Barton Line (2-car) and Crewe to Derby services (3-car).

 

[Spankthemonkey]

An improved service Peterborough to Lincoln via Spalding including Sunday service.
In conjuntion with the dft and local authorities; a complete reopening of Burton to Leicester via Coalville.

 

[Mugby]

Interesting thread, here's what I would do.

• I would order some (maybe around four of each variant) 2-car and 3-car Class 230s to replace the remaining Class 153s and deploy those on the Barton Line (2-car) and Crewe to Derby services (3-car).

Well I, for one, wouldn't welcome any Class 230s on any EMT services. With their spartan, Pacer like interiors, intended more for crush loading than comfort and their 60mph. maximum speed, they would be a substantial retrogression on what we have now.

Thank Heavens this is just a fantasy thread!

 

[HiPa]

>>> Mainline services

St Pancras > Leicester > Derby > Chesterfield > Manchester (hourly)

St Pancras > Nottingham > Sheffield > Barnsley > Leeds (hourly fast to Notts)

St Pancras > Leicester via Corby (hourly)

St Pancras > Sheffield (fast)

St Pancras > Nottingham (semi-fast)

St Pancras > Carlisle via Settle - two per day each direction (via Hambleton to avoid reversing at Leeds)

St Pancras > Burton > Derby via Coalville - one per day

>>> Local (in addition to current services)

Derby > Stoke > Crewe > Manchester Airport

Mansfield > Ilkeston > Long Eaton > Derby

ps: and definitely no services stopping at Bedford or Luton stations!

 

[HiPa]

Oh! The most important bit...

an HST fleet!

 

[Kneedown]

Full harmonisation between "local" and "London" route traincrews with Nottingham - London services being worked by Nottingham Drivers. Derby Drivers to get more Crewe and Matlock turns to compensate.
Entire new local fleet with new build units if sufficient 17X's not available.
Pressure DfT to resume full electrification of MML and introduce full fleet of 802's on route.
5 car 222's to be redeployed on Liverpool - Norwich route, assuming route remains with EMT.
Plenty of ideas for new routes, but that doesn't really fall within remit.

 

[507021]

Well I, for one, wouldn't welcome any Class 230s on any EMT services. With their spartan, Pacer like interiors, intended more for crush loading than comfort and their 60mph. maximum speed, they would be a substantial retrogression on what we have now.

Thank Heavens this is just a fantasy thread!

Admittedly, I have to agree the Class 230 isn't something I'd particularly welcome on Northern, either.

Although to be fair, another idea I've just thought of is leasing the Class 185s and using these to displace Class 158s onto local services to replace the Class 153s. I'd imagine out of the two of my Class 153 replacement ideas, that one would be much more popular!

 

[SeanM1997]

As someone who thinks rail connections to airports is vital, and to discourage people off the road I would like to see (including renaming of East Midlands Parkway to East Midlands Airport Parkway):

Intercity Services:
1ph London, Luton Airport Parkway, Leicester, East Midlands Airport Parkway, Derby, Chesterfield, Sheffield
1ph London, Luton Airport Parkway, Leicester, Loughborough, East Midlands Airport Parkway, Long Eaton, Derby, Chesterfield, Sheffield
1ph London, Luton Airport Parkway, Leicester, Loughborough, East Midlands Airport Parkway, Beeston, Nottingham
1ph London, Luton Airport Parkway, Leicester, East Midlands Airport Parkway, Nottingham
1ph London, Luton Airport Parkway, Wellingborough, Kettering, Corby, Oakham, Melton Mowbray, Leicester

Local Services:
1ph Crewe - Derby extended to Nottingham (via Toton HS2 once opened) and maybe Skegness
New 1ph Crewe - Sheffield calling at all stations including Peartree

 

[HiPa]

Derby Drivers to get more Crewe and Matlock turns to compensate.

That isn’t compensation for relinquishing London work!

We’ll take the Liverpool/Norwich - thank you

 

[4-SUB 4732]

I'd replace Northern's Leeds-Nottingham service with an EMT service running Leeds-London St Pancras, but effectively have it running as two services in one - Leeds to Nottingham as is now, then Nottingham to London slow. OK nobody in Leeds is going to use it end to end, but it opens up much needed links between Yorkshire and the East Midlands. I may be biased, but living in Wakefield and having a son in Leicester, I would welcome a better link.

I would take the Liverpool-Norwich service off them and give it to XC, which effectively this service is really.

In terms of London services, I would improve the Sheffield service by running up the Erewash line as suggested previously. Sheffield-Chesterfield-Leicester-London as a fast service, then have the current faster service via Derby as a second train. I would also run a slower Derby-London service shortly after the faster London service has left Derby, providing the link to other towns on the MML.

Nottingham-Worksop would be extended to Retford. I'd also run Skegness-Nottingham services through to Matlock, extend Leicester-Lincoln services to Cleethorpes, and start Derby-Crewe services at Nottingham.

Not a bad idea all told on the Leeds to St Pancras. Opens up the Erewash Valley to London and opens up the East Midlands with Yorkshire.

I would have a lot of consequential changes to EMT / XC as a result of each other; namely:

The Liverpool to Norwich to start at Manchester Picc and run via Derby to East Mids Parkway; avoiding Leicester and running via Melton to Peterborough. Operate into Cambridge vice Norwich.

The proposed TPE Liverpool to Nottingham to start at Manchester Picc and run via Alfreton to Nottingham then terminate at Grantham to offset the loss of a service from Grantham to Sheffield / Manchester and keep the connecting journey opportunities.

Extend the Birmingham to Nottingham XC as far as Newark Castle to give Newark a better service.

Truncate the Matlock service to Nottingham as a result.

Operate the Lincoln to Leicester service hourly all day.

 

[Qwerty133]

Mainline:
I would scrap the HSTs but keep the majority of the 222s after a full refurb including free WiFi, a full rewire of the PA system and new seats, carpets and toilets. In order to do this I would order a fleet of 20-25 10 coach 125mph bi-modes with end doors, 3 coaches of first class and 7 coaches of standard, with space for 5 bikes and 3 wheelchairs (2 in standard and 1 in first, with the 2 standard class spaces being opposite each other if health and safety permits).
I would remove all mainline calls from East Midlands Parkway, and consider reducing the number of calls at Long Eaton and Beeston unless the platforms can be lengthened. I would palm the Corby services off into Thameslink as I don't think they fit into the franchise and think a microfleet of EMUs is best avoided. Apart from the aforementioned changes the service pattern would remain the same.

Local:
Whole fleet scrapped or in the case of the 158s cascaded to other TOCs, being replaced by 70 3 coach standard class only turbostar style units with 2+2 seating and tables throughout, with the area between the first set of doors and the cab at one end of the train used exclusively for luggage, bikes and as a storage area for a catering service. This would allow for 3 coaches to be used on all services and 6 coaches between Liverpool and Nottingham as well as on services to Skegness, Matlock, Crewe and other routes that have seasonal or otherwise varying demand as appropriate. An early morning service from Nottingham to Skegness on summer Saturdays will be extended to have 6 coaches start from Derby and 3 from Leicester joining at Nottingham to replace the current HST service as well as to capture some of the market from Leicester to Skegness that currently travels by coach (at least 2 local coach companies operate weekly services to Skegness during the summer months).

Stations:
The barriers at Leicester (attitude of staff makes them useless) and East Midlands Parkway (due to its much decreased service level) would be removed with the savings being used to fund all day operation of the barriers at other stations en-route. Ticket offices at major stations would see a major reduction in the level of staff (why on earth Leicester often seems to have 5 ticket office staff at work when it only has 4 positions is beyond me) and would be operated in such a manner that they are almost exclusively used for queries and advanced purchases rather than straight-forward on the day purchases that a half decent ticket machine could handle. At the same time ticket offices at local stations that currently close at dinner time would be staffed until the early evening as well as on Sunday daytimes.

Catering:
At seat trolley service of snacks and drinks on London and Liverpool to Norwich services operated in house staff duel trained in revenue and catering. A catering service would also operate on selected services to Skegness. On all services hot drinks would be priced at £1, and soft drinks would be kept as close to this level as possible. Crisps, sweets and Chocolate would also be available at much reduced prices. Alcohol availability would be dependent on route and time of day (no alcohol on Skegness services, in the morning, or late evening) but where it is available prices would be lower than at present. A full menu of complementary hot food would be served in first class and some of this could be ordered by standard class passengers from the trolley host for a charge (eg: Bacon cobs at breakfast and freshly prepared sandwiches throughout the rest of the day).

Staffing:
London services would be made DCO, but with catering staff trained in evacuation and other emergency procedures and being required for the service to operate. A standard traincrew would consist of a driver, a first class host, a chef and a catering/revenue person for a 4-5 coach train and 2 catering/revenue people for 7 coach and longer services.
Local services would all operate with 2 staff but the driver would operate the doors, with the second member of staff being solely in charge of catering and revenue but being safety critical trained in the case of an emergency and necessary for the operation of the service.

 

[Failed Unit]

I would make the local services run as clockface as possible throughout the day with decent connections at ECML interchange stations. Take for example Grimsby - Newark, the ECML timetable has being clockface at this stations for a number of years, but we have some horrible connections which really encourage people to drive. (Some are now very good as well)

Would love some franchise changes to give useful routes again - ie get some Birmingham - Lincoln services back either via Derby (preferably) or Leicester (so Loughborough gets its through service back)

When East Coast gets more frequent to Lincoln either.
1. Extend it to Cleethorpes and take over the EMT service from Newark - Grimsby
2. Connect into it at Lincoln and change the Grimsby service so it goes to Nottingham and beyond.

Peterborough - Lincoln hourly clockface (with extension to Doncaster every 2 hours)
Crewe - Derby extended to Nottingham (joining at Derby with the Matlock service to save paths)

End single 153 operated services except at times or really low demand.

I lot of this is pie in sky, but Lincolnshire desparately needs a recast.

 

[Ianno87]

I would make the local services run as clockface as possible throughout the day with decent connections at ECML interchange stations. Take for example Grimsby - Newark, the ECML timetable has being clockface at this stations for a number of years, but we have some horrible connections which really encourage people to drive. (Some are now very good as well)

Would love some franchise changes to give useful routes again - ie get some Birmingham - Lincoln services back either via Derby (preferably) or Leicester (so Loughborough gets its through service back)

When East Coast gets more frequent to Lincoln either.
1. Extend it to Cleethorpes and take over the EMT service from Newark - Grimsby
2. Connect into it at Lincoln and change the Grimsby service so it goes to Nottingham and beyond.

Peterborough - Lincoln hourly clockface (with extension to Doncaster every 2 hours)
Crewe - Derby extended to Nottingham (joining at Derby with the Matlock service to save paths)

End single 153 operated services except at times or really low demand.

I lot of this is pie in sky, but Lincolnshire desparately needs a recast.

One of the problems at Newark is that use of the "loop" platform has to be shared between the VTEC terminators, and EMT termintors from Lincoln.

So (for example) a Lincoln-bound EMT has to depart *before* the VTEC terminator arrives in order to vacate the platform , which is itself just before the Down xx30 off the Cross arrives (the faster Newark VTEC service, into which the terminator connects going north). So connections towards Lincoln are inevitably rubbish, no matter what the timetable is.

I'd have thought eventual operation of [VT]EC through to Lincoln more regularly would enable better connections to be provided there instead.

 

[Failed Unit]

One of the problems at Newark is that use of the "loop" platform has to be shared between the VTEC terminators, and EMT termintors from Lincoln.

So (for example) a Lincoln-bound EMT has to depart *before* the VTEC terminator arrives in order to vacate the platform , which is itself just before the Down xx30 off the Cross arrives (the faster Newark VTEC service, into which the terminator connects going north). So connections towards Lincoln are inevitably rubbish, no matter what the timetable is.

I'd have thought eventual operation of [VT]EC through to Lincoln more regularly would enable better connections to be provided there instead.

Agreed. If / When the improvements to bring the 2 hourly service into place happen then connections from Grimsby should take place at Lincoln.
Most of Lincolnshire the timetable is as per 1990s but the main line has altered at lot since.
The fact the joint line service still only runs 8 hours even with the spalding - sleaford section open all day is criminal (thanks dft).
I am sure some people would use the service. People from Spalding must drive now. Methringham, Ruskington and Sleaford would probably like to get to Peterborough in working hours.

 

[Kneedown]

That isn’t compensation for relinquishing London work!

We’ll take the Liverpool/Norwich - thank you

You're more than welcome to have some!

 

[anti-pacer]

As someone who thinks rail connections to airports is vital, and to discourage people off the road I would like to see (including renaming of East Midlands Parkway to East Midlands Airport Parkway):

Intercity Services:
1ph London, Luton Airport Parkway, Leicester, East Midlands Airport Parkway, Derby, Chesterfield, Sheffield
1ph London, Luton Airport Parkway, Leicester, Loughborough, East Midlands Airport Parkway, Long Eaton, Derby, Chesterfield, Sheffield
1ph London, Luton Airport Parkway, Leicester, Loughborough, East Midlands Airport Parkway, Beeston, Nottingham
1ph London, Luton Airport Parkway, Leicester, East Midlands Airport Parkway, Nottingham
1ph London, Luton Airport Parkway, Wellingborough, Kettering, Corby, Oakham, Melton Mowbray, Leicester

Local Services:
1ph Crewe - Derby extended to Nottingham (via Toton HS2 once opened) and maybe Skegness
New 1ph Crewe - Sheffield calling at all stations including Peartree

So you're all for slowing down all trains by having 5tph calling at Luton Airport Parkway and 4tph at EMA Parkway, but wouldn't have any calling at Market Harborough, Bedford or Luton. Also, passengers from Wellingborough and Kettering would have a mammoth journey to Leicester, or indeed any points north.

Bedford should be included in some services to provide a connection to Thameslink stations north of Luton, and it should have a link to fairly sizeable and local(ish) towns such as Wellingborough and Kettering. Also, do Oakham and Melton warrant having a hourly service? I'm not against improvements to both towns' service, but I think hourly is excessive.

With your idea of 1tph from Crewe to Sheffield, I agree in an ideal world that this would be fairly beneficial, but is there capacity to have a stopper between Derby and Sheffield, bearing in mind you'd be calling at Duffield, Belper, Chesterfield and Dronfield, on a line that between Chesterfield and Sheffield alone there's 6tph in each direction, and 4tph non-stop between Chesterfield and Derby, plus the Matlock stopper for part of that route.