In 2014 will first keep scotrail

[fhs man 2]

Hi! the scotrail franchise in currently owned by first but in 2014 the contract will need to be renewed but do you think first will want to keep it and if they didnt who do you think will want this franchise.

scotrail

1984 - 1997 = british rail
1997 - 2004 = national express
2004 - (expire 2014) - first (why start at 10 years they must have the money to flop)

 

[CarterUSM]

I hope not. I'd imagine many of the current franchise holders would find it attractive though.

 

[fhs man 2]

if it comes to money i think first will win since they have opperations all over the world but scotland is there home country in aberdeen

 

[CarterUSM]

We'll just need to wait and see what happens i guess!

 

[Bittern]

As a passenger (y'know, because I'm not in a shop!) I like how First ScotRail is able to get me from A - B on time. I've also found their customer service to be top notch, and I travel with them whenever I can (but that's probably I'm biased towards railways though!).

I can't say much for nationalized ScotRail, or National Express' ScotRail, so I really have nothing much to compare First's run to. But I can say, again, as a passenger, as long as the trains are running as well as they are now, and as long as the customer service remains high, I won't complain if First remain on board.

Now, keep in mind, I'm saying all this as a passenger - I have no idea what it's like 'behind the scenes' for ScotRail staff etc.

 

[CarterUSM]

As a passenger (y'know, because I'm not in a shop!) I like how First ScotRail is able to get me from A - B on time. I've also found their customer service to be top notch, and I travel with them whenever I can (but that's probably I'm biased towards railways though!).

I can't say much for nationalized ScotRail, or National Express' ScotRail, so I really have nothing much to compare First's run to. But I can say, again, as a passenger, as long as the trains are running as well as they are now, and as long as the customer service remains high, I won't complain if First remain on board.

Now, keep in mind, I'm saying all this as a passenger - I have no idea what it's like 'behind the scenes' for ScotRail staff etc.

I think you've made an excellent point! That is the bottom line, the public generally have no concern for staff wellbeing , they want a reliable , comfortable and safe journey from X to Y, and that is fair enough in my view.

 

[rail-britain]

do you think first will want to keep it and if they didnt who do you think will want this franchise

Of course First Group will want to keep it
They will be in the advantageous position of having operated the franchise, plus negotiated an extension quite early in the franchise

What may put off bidders will be the severe level of "fines" and service level agreement
However, they may be able to put a case that investment should reduce those which may be attractive to TS

I personally will be waiting until about the end of 2012 to see what companies post a note of interest when the documents for renewal become available

The next franchise is not likely to be as profitable
There will be issues with the many electrification projects
The EGIP project may impact current services (on virtually all aspects), however once completed may offset any such impact
The further projects are not such an issue as they are not (currently) included in service level agreements

 

[tbtc]

Not sure about this thread. We have no idea what the requirements will be for the next franchise, what First will bid, who else will bid, what other variables there are.

We might as well have an argument about what colour of seats IEP will have...

 

[First class]

I would imagine a crucial aspect of this franchise when it is up for grabs will be the sleepers. The current stock isn't going to last forever, and there's not much of it around, so eventually new sleeper stock is going to have to be sourced for it to run in the future. This may well see it axed beyond 2014.

I do often wonder whether it may be better giving the sleeper to another TOC, or having a new franchise just for the Scottish and Cornish sleeper services in the UK.

 

[rail-britain]

Not sure about this thread. We have no idea what the requirements will be for the next franchise, what First will bid, who else will bid, what other variables there are

I completely agree with that, although the RPTs have already received notification of what they would agenda they have for the next franchise period
The position should be clearer this time next year as the RPTs will then have published these, TS will then also have an outline document prior to inviting notes of interest
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I would imagine a crucial aspect of this franchise when it is up for grabs will be the sleepers. The current stock isn't going to last forever, and there's not much of it around, so eventually new sleeper stock is going to have to be sourced for it to run in the future. This may well see it axed beyond 2014

The sleepers account for such a small amount of the franchise this will not be a crucial aspect of it
However, in respect of the sleeper operation discussions have already commenced on the long-term operation of the service
It is clear the service will NOT be scrapped and will be included within the next franchise
The RPTs already have a confirmation that the Aberdeen and Inverness sleepers will remain until at least 2018 (although policies can change subject to reliability, etc)
The position has also become less clear due to the dispute between Arriva Cross Country and DfT (over the extension of services between Edinburgh and Glasgow Central)
It has even been suggested that ScotRail (at the next franchise) may takeover all the Anglo-Scottish services north of Edinburgh
As before discussions on this aspect are at a very early stage and are subject to the final decision on IEP (due next month)

--

Moving on, I decided to dig out all the documents I have in relation to this
The next franchise would include proposals for :
Renewal of rail line between Wemyss Bay and Largs (not likely)
Renewal of rail line between Paisley Canal and Kilmacolm (possibly reduced to Elderslie and Kilmacolm)
National Rail Timetable (for Scotland)
Upgrade rail line between Glasgow and Edinburgh, via Carstairs, with a 60 minute frequency and journey time of between 35 and 40 minutes
Double deck trains in Ayrshire (not likely now)

 

[Aictos]

if it comes to money i think first will win since they have opperations all over the world but scotland is there home country in aberdeen

Uh, Stagecoach is based in Perth but that didn't make them successful in retaining the ScotRail franchise so why do you automatically think that First as they're also based in a Scottish city ie Aberdeen will automatically retain the franchise?

 

[The_Stig]

I hope not. I'd imagine many of the current franchise holders would find it attractive though.

Far better service provided by First than Stagecoach IMO.

Lets hope things don't go backwards!

 

[rail-britain]

Companies that may be interested
Arriva
First Group
National Express
Serco Ned

Companies that are not likely to be interested
GoVia
Stagecoach

One other consideration
Why don't the existing open access operators consider bidding? (although there aren't many of them)

 

[CarterUSM]

Far better service provided by First than Stagecoach IMO.

Lets hope things don't go backwards!

Not at all, i agree, service is better. I don't particularly care for some aspects of the SQUIRE regime, or whatever it is called nowadays, though. It has improved many aspects of the travelling experience for passengers, there is no doubt, but some targets for it are completely unreasonable and unattainable, with severe fines. It is king though, before ANYTHING else!

 

[bangor-toad]

One other consideration
Why don't the existing open access operators consider bidding? (although there aren't many of them)

Hi,
Simply because any tender that is put in needs to demonstrate that the bidding company can provide a large financial bond. (Amongst other reasons tt's so the Govt could potentially sue them if they fail to provide the service.) For the recent published, then withdrawn, tenders for the Essex lines, these bonds were in the region of £10's million.

Probably out of the league of any small company to go for...
(And it also stops RailForums TOC Ltd from bidding )

Cheers,
Jason

 

[Zoe]

new franchise just for the Scottish and Cornish sleeper services in the UK.

I can't see a franchise getting awarded for just 6 trains a day. If anything it would go open access but then I doubt that as it would need to be profitable.

 

[me123]

I think you've made an excellent point! That is the bottom line, the public generally have no concern for staff wellbeing , they want a reliable , comfortable and safe journey from X to Y, and that is fair enough in my view.

Well, I'm going to have to agree with Bittern. Sorry Carter, but I don't know enough about what goes on behind the scenes to even begin to comment. The one thing I will say is that the Scotrail staff are generally very helpful (I've only seen a few "bad eggs" who let the company down).

I think First have done an excellent job with Scotrail, largely down to Mary Dickson/Grant. Reliability is excellent; I actually trust the railway more than I trust the roads at the moment. Fares are pretty good and I don't think they've been unfairly increased. Over the course of the franchise, I think service quality has been high.

As a passenger, I don't have a problem with First operating Scotrail, and I would like to see them continue.

I can honestly see Scotland moving towards a nationalised railway at some point in the future (eg, Transport Scotland making a bid for the franchise). I suppose it depends on who is in government and the national financial state.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Companies that may be interested
Arriva
First Group
National Express
Serco Ned

Looking at that list, I'd say that FirstGroup is by far the best. Arriva doesn't bear thinking about. National Express would be a step back. I can't really comment much on Serco Ned.

 

[CarterUSM]

Well, I'm going to have to agree with Bittern. Sorry Carter, but I don't know enough about what goes on behind the scenes to even begin to comment. The one thing I will say is that the Scotrail staff are generally very helpful (I've only seen a few "bad eggs" who let the company down).

I think First have done an excellent job with Scotrail, largely down to Mary Dickson/Grant. Reliability is excellent; I actually trust the railway more than I trust the roads at the moment. Fares are pretty good and I don't think they've been unfairly increased. Over the course of the franchise, I think service quality has been high.

As a passenger, I don't have a problem with First operating Scotrail, and I would like to see them continue.

I can honestly see Scotland moving towards a nationalised railway at some point in the future (eg, Transport Scotland making a bid for the franchise). I suppose it depends on who is in government and the national financial state.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Looking at that list, I'd say that FirstGroup is by far the best. Arriva doesn't bear thinking about. National Express would be a step back. I can't really comment much on Serco Ned.

Not a problem me123, i was fully agreeing with Bittern, staff gripes and frustrations are of little consequence to the travelling public and rightly so, it is run for them after all. I don't think you are a million miles away with the future either, though i think that would be more likely with the SNP in power, which i think will be pretty unlikely after the next election.

 

[Aictos]

Now while I wouldn't mind seeing Serco Ned as outsiders to First, National Express or even Virgin bids BUT as much as they seem to be doing a good job with Northern and the lack of rolling stock lets use National Express as a example of why one company could be run quite well and how to not run a company ie Midland Mainline did a pretty good job of running the InterCity Midland franchise compared to NXEC who took on the InterCity East Coast franchise and ran it into the ground.

 

[me123]

Not a problem me123, i was fully agreeing with Bittern, staff gripes and frustrations are of little consequence to the travelling public and rightly so, it is run for them after all. I don't think you are a million miles away with the future either, though i think that would be more likely with the SNP in power, which i think will be pretty unlikely after the next election.

Yeah, latest poll showed 36% Labour, 26% SNP, 15% Tory, 12% Lib Dem, 11% others for regional vote (only slightly different for constituancy). It's hard to convert that to seats, but a clear Labour victory. That all said, things can change. It will be an interesting election for a number of reasons. Anyway, back on topic...

SNP would probably favour First group continuing I would reckon, that is if they didn't nationalise the railway (which could be a manifesto pledge, of course, given that it will happen over the course of the next administration). Labour may do it, but given their history with renationalising things I wouldn't hold my breath. I reckon if they do get in they won't favour National Express. Either way, I think NX probably won't get it.

 

[317 forever]

I understand ScotRail will be franchised by the Scottish Executive rather than DfT. They may choose an outsider, just like Merseytravel chose SercoNed, giving NedRail (now Abellio) a foothold in the UK; and TfL chose MTR (still unique in UK rail) in partnership with Laing (then Chiltern Rail owner but now part of Deutsche Bahn).

 

[route:oxford]

There is absolutely no way that any company is going to get a franchise in Scotland with "NED" in the title.

It's a bit like a colleague of mine when she bought her new car in Oxford (prior to the "01/51" number plate change. She was absolutely gutted when she saw the car registration ended with "FUD" - there's no way should could drive that one home to Scotland.

 

[Nightrider]

The Airdrie to Bathgate line would never have happened if the Scottish Parliament hadn,t existed.
Simply as.

 

[tbtc]

Why don't the existing open access operators consider bidding? (although there aren't many of them)

Really there is only one - Hull Trains are part of First and WMSR are part of DB/ Arriva. And Grand Central could never win a franchise like that.

I quite envy whoever wins the new ScotRail franchise. They'll have a pretty modern trainset to play with, spare stock, lots of state investment and few "conflicting movements" from other TOCs (in fact, by the next franchise there will be even fewer "conflicting movements" with the English TOCs running fewer services through Scotland).

Compare ScotRail to Northern (old trains, nothing spare, no significant confirmed infrastructure improvements, lots of conflicting movements, fighting for paths with other TOCs etc)... I know which one sounds easier!

 

[rail-britain]

Now while I wouldn't mind seeing Serco Ned as outsiders to First, National Express or even Virgin bids

Virgin Rail Group would not even consider preparing for the ScotRail franchise, they have already made this quite clear (they are only interested in the main competing national airline routes)
National Express were actually improving the ScotRail franchise when they lost it, and First Group picked up where they left off
The only reason they lost the franchise was the poor industrial relations and track record of strike action, which had eventually been resolved
Personally, it won't make any difference which company is awarded the franchise as the bids are likely to be very close
It will be more of a political decision, as to which company will look best as the operator

 

[fhs man 2]

Uh, Stagecoach is based in Perth but that didn't make them successful in retaining the ScotRail franchise so why do you automatically think that First as they're also based in a Scottish city ie Aberdeen will automatically retain the franchise?

stagecoach are a not as big as first

 

[scotsman]

Yeah, latest poll showed 36% Labour, 26% SNP, 15% Tory, 12% Lib Dem, 11% others for regional vote (only slightly different for constituancy). It's hard to convert that to seats, but a clear Labour victory.

Well, in the last election, the variation was only a few % either way between share of the vote and seats won.

Let's assume that the share of the vote and seats won were the same.
This would leave:
Labour 46
SNP 34
Tory 19
Lib Dem 15
Others 14
Total = 128 (results rounded where appropriate. 129 setas available)

 

[fhs man 2]

National Express would be a step back.

national express actully did a good service in scotrail 1998 - 2004 they just didnt have the money to challenge firstgroup in the bid but that was then

(not now)

anyway isnt national express banned in 2014 to bid for lines and then it will be too late

the biggest worry right now is that FIRST might ask for a 20 year contract but who knows

first concentrate too much on there trains that they dont really care about the buses maybe a new look is needed. :roll:

 

[Bittern]

Buses should be banned from existence.

 

[tbtc]

isnt national express banned in 2014 to bid for lines

Any evidence?