In 2014 will first keep scotrail

[chic]

For me, first really improved the franchise since 2004. At the moment my perception is that they're doing a good job.

This coming year could be the toughest with a new throughroute with the A2B and the introduction of the 380's and cascade of the other emu's and dmu's.

Potentially it's as big a change to the network in Scotland as there's been in a very long time. The SQUIRE regime is tough too and there's little margin for error and another layer of politicians not to hack off.

(small question why do we always get the 'if northern had the resources of scotrail'comment? It's not relevant as the funding and scrutiny of those franchises is on such a different basis)

 

[fhs man 2]

Any evidence?

people on the forums have been saying this that the dft have done this because they left the ECML all the national express rails companys will be suspended in 2011 until 2014 but the government cannot afford another gov service for east anglia and c2c so national express will be running these services but will probally not be trusted with another service until 2014 wich will be too late unless they are extremely keen on the franchise and bid a really high bid it would have to be like £3 billion for 10 year too outbid first group

 

[rail-britain]

small question why do we always get the 'if northern had the resources of scotrail' comment?

This is due to the two provincial franchises being adjadent to each other and being compared like for like
The difference is very clear when you change trains at either Newcastle or Carlisle
ScotRail are receiving new electric trains, previously many of these were to take over duties of much older trains which were to be taken out of service
However, due to demand this policy was changed after the order was placed
Furthermore with the cancellation of the Glasgow Airport extension there are a further small number of new trains spare

However, compared with BR in the 1980s it is very similar with little change
ScotRail then had many "second hand" trains, but that was primarily due to the fire at Ayr depot
Numerous rail strikes saw the introduction of sprinters into Scotland and Strathclyde delayed, however the benefit there was receiving Class 156 units instead of 150/2
In the North East of England new pacer units were introduced, with Class 108 units still operating the Barrow services

 

[A60K]

The Airdrie to Bathgate line would never have happened if the Scottish Parliament hadn,t existed.
Simply as.

Not 'simply as' in the slightest.

Edinburgh to Bathgate and Glasgow to Paisley Canal were both reopened long before the Scottish Parliament existed.

 

[me123]

For me, first really improved the franchise since 2004. At the moment my perception is that they're doing a good job.

This coming year could be the toughest with a new throughroute with the A2B and the introduction of the 380's and cascade of the other emu's and dmu's.

I think this will be a real test for Scotrail. They've got to anticipate the demand of the new route through Airdrie and Bathgate without disrupting service on the existing line. They've got to introduce new trains, and refurbish existing ones, and at the same time ensure they've got enough stock to run services without running short trains or cancelling existing services. They've got to make sure that the DMUs released from the Bathgate line are put to good use.


From what I've seen, they appear to be on the cautious side with this. So it looks generally good, and I think the December timetable change (undoubtedly the biggest change up here in many years) will go without major problems.

It's an exciting time for Scotland's railway, and I'm looking forward to seeing the outcomes.

I wouldn't say for a minute that Scotrail's operations are easy. There are a significant number of bottlenecks on the rail network, such as the Forth Bridge and Paisley Corridor, that make life difficult for the TOC.
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Not 'simply as' in the slightest.

Edinburgh to Bathgate and Glasgow to Paisley Canal were both reopened long before the Scottish Parliament existed.

I reckon that he's right, actually. I don't think that Airdrie to Bathgate would have happened without a Scottish Parliament.

 

[rail-britain]

Edinburgh to Bathgate and Glasgow to Paisley Canal were both reopened long before the Scottish Parliament existed

Those lines were relatively easy to reinstate as the rail lines already existed
Some "simple" upgrade work and new stations; job done
The Airdrie - Bathgate renewal had to pretty much be started from scratch, even some of the former landscaping and engineering work has had to be ripped up and replaced
I can concur, if the Scottish Government had not come about then this scheme would not exist today, instead the money would have been put into the M8 upgrading by now

 

[Aictos]

stagecoach are a not as big as first

What makes you think that?

If anything, no matter where I go there's always bound to be a Stagecoach bus not far, followed by one of my beloved First buses!

Buses should be banned from existence.

I wouldn't go that far, they do have their uses although calling at all shacks between Peterborough and Stevenage is not one of them (granted coaches are used but they are equally as uncomfortable as buses!)

 

[fhs man 2]

What makes you think that?

If anything, no matter where I go there's always bound to be a Stagecoach bus not far, followed by one of my beloved First buses!

Stagecoach is available in - UK, USA, Canada.

First is available in - UK, USA, Canada, Ireland, Denmark, Sweden, Austrailia.

 

[tbtc]

I wouldn't say for a minute that Scotrail's operations are easy. There are a significant number of bottlenecks on the rail network, such as the Forth Bridge and Paisley Corridor, that make life difficult for the TOC

Every TOC has bottlenecks to deal with. However, ScotRail have the luxury that most of their bottlenecks are only between ScotRail services and other ScotRail services.

For example, to solve a bottleneck at Paisley they can control their own services and tweak them to find the best accommodation.

Whereas if Northern want to tackle a bottleneck at Stockport they need to squeeze in between Virgin/ Cross Country/ Transpennine/ Arriva...

There are some non-ScotRail services in Scotland, but (apart from a handful of Edinburgh - Aberdeen service - which may be even fewer in the future) the main impact is between Motherwell and Glasgow and the obvious constraints on the Newcraighall/ North Berwick services.

ScotRail have the comparative luxury that Chiltern/ C2C have, whereby they have a relatively blank sheet of paper to draft their timetables
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Stagecoach is available in - UK, USA, Canada.

First is available in - UK, USA, Canada, Ireland, Denmark, Sweden, Austrailia.

First run over half the buses in Scotland and 90% of the trains. Someone in power clearly likes them...

 

[Nightrider]

Someone in power clearly likes them...

In a small country like Scotland you can bet every mover and shaker plus their granny knows each other.

 

[fhs man 2]

First run over half the buses in Scotland and 90% of the trains. Someone in power clearly likes them...

first have went along way since they started only 15 years ago but here in aberdeen we are the ones who have to pay. Every local bus route in aberdeen is first except for 1. The prices for first buses go up every 6 months well someone has to pay for the expansion.

In fact aberdeen has the most expensive local bus's in the UK when you go somewhere else and pay its like heaven.

The company was made by bus drivers and bus drivers are very greedy with money well the ones that work in aberdeen are with all there strikes.

first aberdeen - 2 depots 1 International HQ

 

[scotsman]

In a small country like Scotland you can bet every mover and shaker plus their granny knows each other.

You obviously haven't heard of the scandals where High Hied Yins at First took Transport Scotland Officials out to dinner. A few times.

 

[Nightrider]

You obviously haven't heard of the scandals where High Hied Yins at First took Transport Scotland Officials out to dinner. A few times.

Nor have i heard of the biggest mini cab company outside of London that is used by First Scotrail every time they need staff or passengers moved all around Scotland at short notice.

As my granny used to say, "eyes and ears open, mouth shut".

 

[fhs man 2]

You obviously haven't heard of the scandals where High Hied Yins at First took Transport Scotland Officials out to dinner. A few times.

That is a good trick. If they continue they could get the extensions they want.

 

[tbtc]

here in aberdeen we are the ones who have to pay

The Aberdeen buses are about the best vehicles they run outside London. If you think Aberdeen has a raw deal, come and see some of the twenty year old stuff running elsewhere in the UK

(I can't comment on the prices in Aberdeen, but our fares in Sheffield have more than doubled in the last decade)

 

[scotsman]

Nor have i heard of the biggest mini cab company outside of London that is used by First Scotrail every time they need staff or passengers moved all around Scotland at short notice.

As my granny used to say, "eyes and ears open, mouth shut".

If it's the guys i'm thinking of, then they're very good.

Waiting on me and 2 others when I arrived in Perth. 90mph over Drumochter, could have easily killed us all.

 

[CarterUSM]

If it's the guys i'm thinking of, then they're very good.

Waiting on me and 2 others when I arrived in Perth. 90mph over Drumochter, could have easily killed us all.

I hope it isn't the same mob i'm thinking of, they are an affront to the art of taxi-ing, and that is saying something.

 

[scotsman]

I hope it isn't the same mob i'm thinking of, they are an affront to the art of taxi-ing, and that is saying something.

Bet it is, the guy said they got all the ScotRail work - whether he meant Perth or the whole of Scotland I have no idea. Next time my train runs straight to Dundee, ScotRail are paying for my coach ticket.

 

[CarterUSM]

Bet it is, the guy said they got all the ScotRail work - whether he meant Perth or the whole of Scotland I have no idea. Next time my train runs straight to Dundee, ScotRail are paying for my coach ticket.

They are using some service called cab find or something similar now, only started a few weeks ago. Glasgow uses a well known mini cab company, but it differs from place to place, Motherwell uses local cabs from there, Aberdeen the same, etc etc.

 

[Aictos]

Stagecoach in Peterborough is awful, so much I would welcome Arriva in with open arms if only to introduce some form of competition within the Peterborough Plus Bus area!

As to First retaining the Scotrail franchise, I think they have got a fairly good chance of doing so.

 

[The_Stig]

You obviously haven't heard of the scandals where High Hied Yins at First took Transport Scotland Officials out to dinner. A few times.

Every company would have done that. The fact it was publicised means it probably came from an opposing bidder.

 

[scotsman]

Every company would have done that. The fact it was publicised means it probably came from an opposing bidder.

Doubt it, this supposedly happened a few days before a franchise extension was announced.

 

[rail-britain]

I've been on a few "wines and dines" myself
Typically the company winning the contract pays for it, not restricted to just transport companies either

 

[Nightrider]

I've been on a few "wines and dines" myself
Typically the company winning the contract pays for it, not restricted to just transport companies either

Correct, wining and dining is common in the business world.
You only need to start worrying when the "horses head" appears on your pillow.

 

[scotsman]

I spoke to my mate (a ScotRail employee) about this, he replied he hoped First got it again because of the excellent free travel available (all First train services, incl. sleepers), or ScotRail was renationalised.

 

[Railsigns]

The next franchise would include proposals for :
Renewal of rail line between Wemyss Bay and Largs (not likely)

What exactly is this proposal about? There never was a railway between Wemyss Bay and Largs in the first place.

 

[Nightrider]

What exactly is this proposal about? There never was a railway between Wemyss Bay and Largs in the first place.

 

[Aictos]

I spoke to my mate (a ScotRail employee) about this, he replied he hoped First got it again because of the excellent free travel available (all First train services, incl. sleepers), or ScotRail was renationalised.

Pretty much why I want First to retain the franchise,

 

[rail-britain]

What exactly is this proposal about? There never was a railway between Wemyss Bay and Largs in the first place.

This is a longterm proposal
However the benefits are modest along with modest adverse effects on envirnment and noise, as such this project has not progressed to the assessment stage

 

[me123]

I reckon it's unlikely to happen. Both stations are, and always have been, termini. Wemyss Bay is a listed building. so there's probably no way that you could extend the line through the existing station - you'd need a new one. There's no existing route between the towns. Both are relatively lightly used as SPT area services go (largely because services are relatively infrequent and there's little scope for further enhancement). Existing buses are well used, very frequent, but not exactly strained. You won't see a major shift to the rails without a very frequent timetable (I reckon at least 2tph) and even then it would probably struggle. There's hardly any room to upgrade the A78 road, never mind build a new railway line!

It won't happen.

A better consideration for a long term proposal is reinstating a line to Kirkintilloch, probably the closest significant town to Glasgow not to have a rail link. Run a service Kirkintilloch-Lenzie-Bishopbriggs-Springburn-Glasgow Central Low level-Charing Cross and turn back at Kelvinhaugh. You'd be more likely to see significant benefits with this, although I know it would need huge upgrades to the line between Cowlairs and Lenzie, and a quick look on google maps suggests that it would be difficult and expensive, if not impossible.