Inappropriate behaviour & threats by the police citing Covid 19 regulations

[island]

Does that mean that each and every member of the Constabulary will have to swear a new allegiance in the event that Her Majesty is replaced by a male in due course and for whatever reason?

No. The Interpretation Act of 1978 states that all references to the sovereign are to be considered references to whoever is currently in role.

 

[adc82140]

A friend of mine who works in the police service has said that the action of some senior officers and PCCs has put back community engagement by decades. The rank and file are not happy. It's a minority of officers who are the dictionary definition of why there should be a police intelligence test, egged on by PCCs who have bog all policing background, and chief constables who want their 5 minutes of fame.

 

[yorkie]

This video is disturbing:

The police wind up a jobless dog walker and threaten to arrest him for a "crime" for being in breach of "guidance".

The woman police officer states "don't put it on youtube because my identity is not allowed on youtube"; all the more reason to make sure you watch it, as clearly she doesn't want people seeing her behaviour.

A friend of mine who works in the police service has said that the action of some senior officers and PCCs has put back community engagement by decades. The rank and file are not happy. It's a minority of officers who are the dictionary definition of why there should be a police intelligence test, egged on by PCCs who have bog all policing background, and chief constables who want their 5 minutes of fame.

Thanks for the insight.

If I worked for the police I'd be discussing my concerns with my boss and union.

The actions of this small but extremely visible minority of officers is downright dangerous and could spark disorder.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

No wonder she didn’t want the video posted on any social media!!
If officers like her had their wish, they would have us subjected to something like France’s proposed ‘Security Law’, which is the cause of street protests in Paris (another one of which took place today).

France security law incompatible with human rights, say UN experts

Special reporters take government to task over proposed legislation that would give police more power

www.theguardian.com

Media organisations argue article 24 of the law, which makes it an offence to publish photographs or film identifying on-duty police or gendarmes with “intent to do physical or psychological harm”, is a threat to press freedom.

 

[DelayRepay]

When I was a young boy, my uncle and his colleagues were beaten up by police on horseback for deciding to go on strike.

I thought things had changed in the three and a half decades that have passed. Clearly things have not changes as much as I thought.

 

[GusB]

This video is disturbing:

The police wind up a jobless dog walker and threaten to arrest him for a "crime" for being in breach of "guidance".

The woman police officer states "don't put it on youtube because my identity is not allowed on youtube"; all the more reason to make sure you watch it, as clearly she doesn't want people seeing her behaviour.


Thanks for the insight.

If I worked for the police I'd be discussing my concerns with my boss and union.

The actions of this small but extremely visible minority of officers is downright dangerous and could spark disorder.

Good grief! Is she actually a police officer, or just a PCSO on a power trip?

 

[farleigh]

What a ridiculous person

 

[GodAtum]

1. While I know many find the comparison to "muzzles" to be quite offensive or ludicrous, there's enough of a visual similarity that it triggers something in my brain that genuinely worries me. There's a bit of symbolism, like people are being silenced/gagged. The fact that many politicians aren't bothering to follow the rules adds to the comparison, because while some slaves wore muzzles their masters never had to.

2. Part of me worries that masks are some kind of experiment, to see how compliant people are. Who obeys, who doesn't, are there any limits on what people will do when ordered by someone in authority. I worry that if I change my mind and decide to wear one, I'll be sending the wrong message, that I'm willing to obey. And if the government see us all willing to obey one thing, will they feel emboldened to make greater demands? Sort of like the "foot in the door" analogy.

 

[Mojo]

Good grief! Is she actually a police officer, or just a PCSO on a power trip?

She has got a Taser on her vest so will be a police officer.

 

[bramling]

This video is disturbing:

The police wind up a jobless dog walker and threaten to arrest him for a "crime" for being in breach of "guidance".

The woman police officer states "don't put it on youtube because my identity is not allowed on youtube"; all the more reason to make sure you watch it, as clearly she doesn't want people seeing her behaviour.

OMG. Words fail me. A disgrace. The dog walker dealt with her goading pretty well.

 

[Philip]

The police are there to protect the public, to fight crime, the alternative is anarchy which we certainly don't want. The police have to exercise authority to help deter criminals, or potential criminals. Yes there are some rogue coppers who are more in it for the power trip and these are in the force for the wrong reason. But as stated at the beginning of the thread, these are in the minority, just brought to light by the media, with the result being the police in general get tarnished.

Are the police really getting more unfair? 40 or more years ago an individual up to mischief would sometimes be given a clip around the ear by the local beat bobby and a real troublemaker would sometimes get a thrashing behind the doors of the van.

 

[221129]

Are the police really getting more unfair?

When they are making their own laws up and trying to enforce their own version of the law then yes.

 

[Huntergreed]

I think this is rather disturbing. Police Scotland have created an anonymous form where you are encouraged to report anybody breaching the COVID rules. This is, in my opinion, crossing the line into what the role of the police is and the rights they have.

Covid-19 Reporting form | Police Scotland

Submit a COIVD-19 form.

www.scotland.police.uk

I do wonder if any action is taken following a report of a breach.

 

[duncanp]

I think this is rather disturbing. Police Scotland have created an anonymous form where you are encouraged to report anybody breaching the COVID rules. This is, in my opinion, crossing the line into what the role of the police is and the rights they have.

Covid-19 Reporting form | Police Scotland

Submit a COIVD-19 form.

www.scotland.police.uk

I do wonder if any action is taken following a report of a breach.

And no doubt people will use the form to falsely report someone with whom they have a dispute, such as a neighbour, work colleague or family member.

The form also asks you to provide your details. I am quite sure that there will be lots of reports originating from "Mickey Mouse", "Rab C Nesbitt" and "Nicola Sturgeon"

 

[yorkie]

The police are there to protect the public, to fight crime...

North Yorkshire Police don't appear to agree. They think that people want them to stop people who are not doing anything illegal, and issue 'guidance'

the alternative is anarchy which we certainly don't want.

True but what some people want is a form of authoritarianism where the police stop people carrying out lawful activities.

The police have to exercise authority to help deter criminals, or potential criminals.

Some police don't appear to be keen to target criminals right now; they are going for ordinary law-abiding people.

Yes there are some rogue coppers who are more in it for the power trip and these are in the force for the wrong reason.

Problem is, some of them are quite high up, such as Supt Mike Walker of North Yorkshire Police.

But as stated at the beginning of the thread, these are in the minority, just brought to light by the media, with the result being the police in general get tarnished.

But when high up police offers are included in that minority, we have a problem.

Also when forces such as West Midlands Police defend the actions of junior police, and don't distance themselves from their actions, we have a problem.

I've lost a lot of the respect I had for the police and it's going to take a change in direction and admission of wrongdoing on the part of the police to win it back. However I don't think Supt Mike Walker &his ilk particularly wants my respect so I don't think that will happen.

Are the police really getting more unfair? 40 or more years ago an individual up to mischief would sometimes be given a clip around the ear by the local beat bobby and a real troublemaker would sometimes get a thrashing behind the doors of the van.

A comparison with 40 years ago is not the right comparison. Why not compare to just one year ago? I can't think of anything on the scale of what we've seen in 2020 for as long as I've been reading the news and aware of what's going on.

Yes people may be able to come up with incidents from any given year but since when have so many police forces been going after law abiding citicizens, people with physical or medical conditions/ailments/disabilities and attempting to restrict our freedom on this scale? Not in recent years that's for sure.

We have a big problem and it need addressing urgently.

 

[Philip]

North Yorkshire Police don't appear to agree. They think that people want them to stop people who are not doing anything illegal, and issue 'guidance'


True but what some people want is a form of authoritarianism where the police stop people carrying out lawful activities.


Some police don't appear to be keen to target criminals right now; they are going for ordinary law-abiding people.


Problem is, some of them are quite high up, such as Supt Mike Walker of North Yorkshire Police.


But when high up police offers are included in that minority, we have a problem.

Also when forces such as West Midlands Police defend the actions of junior police, and don't distance themselves from their actions, we have a problem.

I've lost a lot of the respect I had for the police and it's going to take a change in direction and admission of wrongdoing on the part of the police to win it back. However I don't think Supt Mike Walker &his ilk particularly wants my respect so I don't think that will happen.


A comparison with 40 years ago is not the right comparison. Why not compare to just one year ago? I can't think of anything on the scale of what we've seen in 2020 for as long as I've been reading the news and aware of what's going on.

Yes people may be able to come up with incidents from any given year but since when have so many police forces been going after law abiding citicizens, people with physical or medical conditions/ailments/disabilities and attempting to restrict our freedom on this scale? Not in recent years that's for sure.

We have a big problem and it need addressing urgently.

The police are following orders from the government and again we don't really know if these issues are a widespread or large scale thing or just a small minority given a bigger scale by the media.
I don't believe the police are any more corrupt or authoritarian than they were 5 or 10 years ago, they probably just appear to be so as a result of the restrictions brought on by the pandemic. If all this had happened 10, 20 or more years ago then I suspect we'd be reading the same reports and the same concerns as we're doing now.

One thing we can say for sure though is that the police were left high and dry by the cuts brought in by the Cameron Tory government. This hasn't been rectified yet so we're left with a smaller police force, overwhelmed with red tape and with additional responsibilities and tasks as a result of these restrictions, hindering them in fighting crime. It's fair to say many of them are likely a bit stressed at the situation to say the least, so perhaps in some it is bringing out an ugly side?

 

[bramling]

The police are following orders from the government and again we don't really know if these issues are a widespread or large scale thing or just a small minority given a bigger scale by the media.
I don't believe the police are any more corrupt or authoritarian than they were 5 or 10 years ago, they probably just appear to be so as a result of the restrictions brought on by the pandemic. If all this had happened 10, 20 or more years ago then I suspect we'd be reading the same reports and the same concerns as we're doing now.

One thing we can say for sure though is that the police were left high and dry by the cuts brought in by the Cameron Tory government. This hasn't been rectified yet so we're left with a smaller police force, overwhelmed with red tape and with additional responsibilities and tasks as a result of these restrictions, hindering them in fighting crime. It's fair to say many of them are likely a bit stressed at the situation to say the least, so perhaps in some it is bringing out an ugly side?

From conversations I’ve had at work, mainly with BTP so this might not fully reflect the conventional forces, most police officers are thoroughly fed up with the situation and have been since early on, and feel they’ve been largely dumped with a political agenda that’s half-baked and puts them in a difficult position. Whilst a very tiny handful of officers might love it, it’s pretty clear most absolutely don’t.

 

[221129]

The police are following orders from the government

So were the SS...

so perhaps in some it is bringing out an ugly side?

Then they should rethink their career choices.

 

[bramling]

North Yorkshire Police don't appear to agree. They think that people want them to stop people who are not doing anything illegal, and issue 'guidance'


True but what some people want is a form of authoritarianism where the police stop people carrying out lawful activities.


Some police don't appear to be keen to target criminals right now; they are going for ordinary law-abiding people.


Problem is, some of them are quite high up, such as Supt Mike Walker of North Yorkshire Police.


But when high up police offers are included in that minority, we have a problem.

Also when forces such as West Midlands Police defend the actions of junior police, and don't distance themselves from their actions, we have a problem.

I've lost a lot of the respect I had for the police and it's going to take a change in direction and admission of wrongdoing on the part of the police to win it back. However I don't think Supt Mike Walker &his ilk particularly wants my respect so I don't think that will happen.


A comparison with 40 years ago is not the right comparison. Why not compare to just one year ago? I can't think of anything on the scale of what we've seen in 2020 for as long as I've been reading the news and aware of what's going on.

Yes people may be able to come up with incidents from any given year but since when have so many police forces been going after law abiding citicizens, people with physical or medical conditions/ailments/disabilities and attempting to restrict our freedom on this scale? Not in recent years that's for sure.

We have a big problem and it need addressing urgently.

I think, or perhaps hope, this is a little over-stated. Most people will have gone through 2020 *without* having a nasty encounter with the police - my experience with masks for example is that it’s individuals rather than police who are doing things like “shaming”, though of course we know one person in the police who encouraged that and should have known better. The two clips we’ve seen are highly disturbing, but I do think they are sour apples and are the exception not the rule. Or at least I very much hope that’s the case.

We mustn’t lose respect for the police, as that’s a very retrograde step for society. To be honest I blame the government more, but when we have rubbish like Priti Patel as Home Secretary it’s easy to see how things are going wrong.

 

[Bantamzen]

I think, or perhaps hope, this is a little over-stated. Most people will have gone through 2020 *without* having a nasty encounter with the police - my experience with masks for example is that it’s individuals rather than police who are doing things like “shaming”, though of course we know one person in the police who encouraged that and should have known better. The two clips we’ve seen are highly disturbing, but I do think they are sour apples and are the exception not the rule. Or at least I very much hope that’s the case.

We mustn’t lose respect for the police, as that’s a very retrograde step for society. To be honest I blame the government more, but when we have rubbish like Priti Patel as Home Secretary it’s easy to see how things are going wrong.

I agree with that sentiment, but at the same time the Police have to take some responsibility. If as it seems there are some officers taking it too far, then they must must be pulling them to one side and dealing with those behaviours whilst also making it publicly clear what they should be doing. Too often we've heard the kind of almost threatening language from some forces that makes it seem as if they are almost encouraging conflict situations (examples such as Derbyshire & North Yorkshire Police and their handling of walkers this year).

 

[Jamesrob637]

As I said upthread, (a small number of) the law needed their heads testing even pre-COVID.

 

[sheff1]

We mustn’t lose respect for the police,

That ship has long since sailed.

 

[HSTEd]

We mustn’t lose respect for the police, as that’s a very retrograde step for society. To be honest I blame the government more, but when we have rubbish like Priti Patel as Home Secretary it’s easy to see how things are going wrong.

Why not?

Their behaviour must earn my respect, and so far they are not impressing.

 

[andypops]

A very interesting read to gauge perspectives. I can absolutely understand why people on both sides of the debate feel as they do, and I feel that the underlying issue of poor trust on both sides is being further eroded by the actions of a few on both sides - some individuals in the police who are too quick to enforce and bully, and some individuals who deliberately try to push boundaries to make a point. I’m not judging either side (well, I detest bullies ) but think there needs to be a lot of work done to repair the damage done by this prolonged period of mistrust.

I was also pleased to observe that Godwin’s law appears to have been proven correct in such a short time.

Godwin's law - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[GusB]

I think this is rather disturbing. Police Scotland have created an anonymous form where you are encouraged to report anybody breaching the COVID rules. This is, in my opinion, crossing the line into what the role of the police is and the rights they have.

Covid-19 Reporting form | Police Scotland

Submit a COIVD-19 form.

www.scotland.police.uk

I do wonder if any action is taken following a report of a breach.

I don't know what it's like anywhere else in Scotland, but they simply don't have the manpower to deal with anything extra here.

 

[bramling]

Why not?

Their behaviour must earn my respect, and so far they are not impressing.

I don’t disagree at all with either of those sentiments, but the problem is as a society we do *need* the police. They are often asked to do some pretty dangerous things in order to keep us and our property collectively safe.

This is absolutely why nonsense like the two videos seen on this thread shouldn’t be happening. However whilst the officers in question are clearly nasty pieces of work and bad apples, the blame lies much further up the food chain than that. The buck ultimately stops with the Home Secretary, who could have quite easily made it very clear that this behaviour is completely unacceptable.

It is also worth remembering that this is only two videos, though I don’t doubt there’s more it’s still exceptional, not commonplace. Round my way one is scarcely able to see a police officer at the best of times, so one is very unlikely to get hassled in a park!

 

[farleigh]

The police are following orders from the government and again we don't really know if these issues are a widespread or large scale thing or just a small minority given a bigger scale by the media.
I don't believe the police are any more corrupt or authoritarian than they were 5 or 10 years ago, they probably just appear to be so as a result of the restrictions brought on by the pandemic. If all this had happened 10, 20 or more years ago then I suspect we'd be reading the same reports and the same concerns as we're doing now.

One thing we can say for sure though is that the police were left high and dry by the cuts brought in by the Cameron Tory government. This hasn't been rectified yet so we're left with a smaller police force, overwhelmed with red tape and with additional responsibilities and tasks as a result of these restrictions, hindering them in fighting crime. It's fair to say many of them are likely a bit stressed at the situation to say the least, so perhaps in some it is bringing out an ugly side?

If these cuts debilitated their ability to protect the public, perhaps they could concentrate their reduced resources on things other than people sitting in a park with their dog

 

[Skimpot flyer]

The police are there to protect the public, to fight crime, the alternative is anarchy which we certainly don't want. The police have to exercise authority to help deter criminals, or potential criminals. Yes there are some rogue coppers who are more in it for the power trip and these are in the force for the wrong reason. But as stated at the beginning of the thread, these are in the minority, just brought to light by the media, with the result being the police in general get tarnished.

Sorry, but anyone watching that video would conclude that the police are there to fight the public, and invent crime!
For some individuals, if their first encounter with a police officer is like the experience in that video, it will colour their opinion against all officers, for a lifetime.

 

[duncanp]

And the police in London are ramping up their threats and scare tactics ahead of the decision on the allocation of Tiers next week.

Met warns Londoners rule breaches will have 'very serious consequences' as Tier 3 looms

The Metropolitan Police has warned Londoners that breaking coronavirus rules this weekend will have "very serious consequences".

www.telegraph.co.uk

The Metropolitan Police has warned Londoners that breaking coronavirus rules this weekend will have "very serious consequences".

London potentially faces Tier 3 restrictions as soon as this time next week, with a decision to be made on Wednesday amid rising case rates.

Deputy Assistant Commissioner Matt Twist, the Met’s lead for Covid-19 operations, said: "I’m afraid the infection rates show not all of us are being careful enough. This isn’t just about keeping to the regulations, important though that is, it is about taking all the precautions we can in every aspect of our lives.

"We do understand the temptation to enjoy the festive season - after a tough year we’d really like to do so ourselves, but right now we need to come together as a city and control the virus.

"Our collective actions over the coming days and weeks will have very serious consequences and if we don’t change our behaviour now then people will die who could have otherwise lived – it’s that simple."

He branded rule-breakers "a small minority of selfish people" who had held protests and parties, and said police forces "make no apology" for their use of enforcement powers in the capital city and beyond.

London Mayor Sadiq Khan said in a statement: "At the same time, a key part of supporting London’s businesses recover from this pandemic is ensuring we get this deadly virus under control.

"With cases rising in many parts of the capital, it is vital that we all work together to control its spread. Otherwise we may face tougher restrictions."

I think it is a bit rich of the Metropolitan Police and Sadiq Khant to blame a "selfish minority of rule breakers".

Do they have any evidence to suggest that it is people holding parties and protests who are primarily responsible for the rise in cases in London? Of course not, but it makes them a convenient scapegoat.

And we are now seeing all the "SAGE scientists" saying that you shouldn't meet your family at Christmas, despite the government relaxing the rules to allow for this. So if you see Granny at Christmas, you will kill her, and have to spend the whole of January and February in complete lockdown.

 

[DB]

And the police in London are ramping up their threats and scare tactics ahead of the decision on the allocation of Tiers next week.

Met warns Londoners rule breaches will have 'very serious consequences' as Tier 3 looms

The Metropolitan Police has warned Londoners that breaking coronavirus rules this weekend will have "very serious consequences".

www.telegraph.co.uk

The Metropolitan Police has warned Londoners that breaking coronavirus rules this weekend will have "very serious consequences".

Yeah, yeah, same old tactics. Of course it's all down to people not wearing masks / jumping into the road when passing someone / etc. Clearly not just the virus doing what it does, and spreading well in December...