Inappropriate behaviour & threats by the police citing Covid 19 regulations

[yorkie]

Are the police trying to incite people into protesting? It sure looks like it.

 

[Cdd89]

Two resources I have found useful in relation to the legal issues and distinction between law and guidance are:

• Adam Wagner’s Twitter account, @AdamWagner1 - accompanied by pretty lengthy YouTube videos
• Law or Fiction blog

The growing evidence of police overreach makes it clear that it’s important to know your rights.

 

[HSTEd]

Are the police trying to incite people into protesting? It sure looks like it.

Well the police still do need an excuse to smash someone's head in.

 

[bramling]

They won't be.

The force has defended them on Twitter and refuses to answer questions.

If anyone lives in the relevant area, it would be useful if they could contact their MP.

The problem is that this sort of thing really causes the population to lose respect for the police. Being brutally honest, most people are already lukewarm at best, especially anyone who’s for example been on the receiving end of a domestic burglary and found the police to be laxadaisical at best, which will be most people’s typical experience of the police.

A slippery slope.

 

[Bantamzen]

Are the police trying to incite people into protesting? It sure looks like it.

Well as someone elsewhere has said, they haven't had (and in many part still haven't) got football fans to get their kicks from. So they need to burn of that anger that some of them seem to have off on someone, so walkers in the middle of nowhere & pub landlords must seem fair game, especially when the Eatonian twits at the top are handing them ever more powers.

And if anyone thinks that is unfair, in the last 30 years I have travelled far & wide across England following my team and thanks to following a team that went from the bottom of professional football to the top, and then back again , I've been pretty much everywhere that has had a professional team & more besides. And a common theme throughout that time has been the attitude of some forces & some individual officers towards peaceful football fans (I have never been involved with hooligans, and indeed was part of a movement at our club that drove many away). Suffice to say, some forces have, let's just say a pretty bad reputation, and a lot of what I read about them in the pandemic is sadly unsurprising.

The problem is that this sort of thing really causes the population to lose respect for the police. Being brutally honest, most people are already lukewarm at best, especially anyone who’s for example been on the receiving end of a domestic burglary and found the police to be laxadaisical at best, which will be most people’s typical experience of the police.

A slippery slope.

Oh this is so true. I have sadly had two occasions when I have had to interact with the Police following a burglary, and one where my mates & I were attacked. On the first burglary the officers that eventually showed up (many hours later) seemed very bored and disinterested, so when I was robbed for a second time having initially failed to get them to respond I rang back & old them I thought they might still be in my property & drugs might be involved (to be fair this was partially true, as I'm sure I heard something after the first call but didn't feel up to checking the cellar where they had broken in). Within 5 minutes 4 officers and a dog turned up, so clearly the prospect of a collar feeling was more attractive to them.

With regards to the attack, this happened in the small hours of a Sunday morning when myself and two mates got jumped for no apparent reason coming out of a kebab shop. We took a bit of a kicking and one mate ended up with some quite serious injuries and needing hospital treatment. However despite the owners of the shop backing us up as to what happened, the officers that eventually showed up long after the attackers had done one where completely disinterested, bored even. Maybe me & my mates should have started fighting with each other to give them something to do.

 

[Crossover]

Oh this is so true. I have sadly had two occasions when I have had to interact with the Police following a burglary, and one where my mates & I were attacked. On the first burglary the officers that eventually showed up (many hours later) seemed very bored and disinterested, so when I was robbed for a second time having initially failed to get them to respond I rang back & old them I thought they might still be in my property & drugs might be involved (to be fair this was partially true, as I'm sure I heard something after the first call but didn't feel up to checking the cellar where they had broken in). Within 5 minutes 4 officers and a dog turned up, so clearly the prospect of a collar feeling was more attractive to them.

Anecodtally I would agree that there is a greater interest when there is potential reward.

In fairness, when we were broken into a couple of years or so ago, the police couldn't have been more helpful (possibly because there was a chance of 'reward', mind) and they caught 3 of the 4 perps and recovered most of what was taken. The sentencing of said perps, however.....

 

[greyman42]

Oh what a surprise.

There are now reports of "overzealous" police visiting pubs and telling people to leave directly after finishing their food, despite their being nothing in the regulations to this effect. They have also being arguing with landlords about whether Scotch Eggs constitute a substantial meal.

'Overzealous' police patrol pubs and argue with landlords over Scotch eggs

Officers asked customers to leave after eating despite guidelines to only enforce rules as a 'last resort'

www.telegraph.co.uk

Correct me if i am wrong, but if the customer is not drinking alcohol then surely they are entitled to stay as long as they please?

 

[island]

Yes, unless the pub has rules to the contrary (which it may choose to do).

 

[DJH1971]

And now this from North Yorkshire Police saying they will take action against those coming from Tier 3 areas to North Yorkshire & York (which are in Tier 2). Erm, not sure how as travelling to and from a Tier 3 area for non essentials is advised against, it is not illegal.

I can see a number of people caught up in this contesting any prosecutions.

https://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/18920330.york-police-crackdown-covid-19-rule-breakers/

The force is carrying out high-visibility patrols along the force borders to discourage people from neighbouring Tier 3 locations, including places like Stamford Bridge and Pocklington, from travelling into the area which increases the risk of infection.

 

[bramling]

And now this from North Yorkshire Police saying they will take action against those coming from Tier 3 areas to North Yorkshire & York (which are in Tier 2). Erm, not sure how as travelling to and from a Tier 3 area for non essentials is advised against, it is not illegal.

I can see a number of people caught up in this contesting any prosecutions.

[URL unfurl="true"]https://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/18920330.york-police-crackdown-covid-19-rule-breakers/[/URL]

I wonder what “action” they propose to take? Bully people in the form of a lecture (from someone who doesn’t have a science background and therefore isn’t really qualified to be giving epidemiology advice)?

 

[sjpowermac]

I wonder what “action” they propose to take? Bully people in the form of a lecture (from someone who doesn’t have a science background and therefore isn’t really qualified to be giving epidemiology advice)?

I agree that the police are there to enforce the law and not enforce advice. It most certainly would be interesting to know what ‘action’ the police propose.

 

[yorkie]

I agree that the police are there to enforce the law and not enforce advice. It most certainly would be interesting to know what ‘action’ the police propose.

I agree, but sadly (From @Crossover's link above) Mike Walker goes much further than this:

“It is our responsibility to keep the public of North Yorkshire safe, and we take that responsibility incredibly seriously. It’s what every police officer and member of police staff come to work to do and quite rightly, what the public expect of us.

I think Mike Walker is out of control and needs to be called to account.

Some pertinent tweets on the subject:

https://twitter.com/AdamWagner1/status/1334476349713616896

There is no legal restriction on travelling from one Tier to another, or within one Tiered area. There is no power under the regulations for police to stop cars. ...

https://twitter.com/jshmellor/status/1334486035565338625

"I would encourage residents to consult the relevant Government guidance for their area and ensure they are aware of what they can and can’t do."
Superintendent Mike Walker, North Yorkshire Police
Surely:
guidance = should and shouldn't do
law = can and can't

Are we in a police state yet? If not, we must be getting pretty close...

 

[Halish Railway]

Does anyone have any ideas of how to get round this stupidity? I’m considering driving to Church Fenton and getting the train into York tomorrow.

 

[yorkie]

Does anyone have any ideas of how to get round this stupidity? I’m considering driving to Church Fenton and getting the train into York tomorrow.

You're allowed to do so.

 

[birchesgreen]

Country seems to have morphed into a Monty Python sketch or a Viz comic

Forget the Bottom Inspectors... now we have the Scotch Egg Police

 

[yorkie]

The police are deluded if they think the majority of the population supports these actions.

Yes, the hysterical pro-lockdown authoritarians will be happy; they are a highly vocal group I'll give them that, but they are very much the minority.

If the police continue down this dangerous path, sooner or later things are going to escalate.

 

[Domh245]

If the police continue down this dangerous path, sooner or later things are going to escalate.

Regardless of if things escalate now or not, it'll make their life considerably harder in the 'after times' - the old concept of policing by consent is very much being strained, I just hope we don't slide all the way to a situation like we see in America

 

[farleigh]

I used to respect the police as i believed they were for the majority not against them

 

[sjpowermac]

The police are deluded if they think the majority of the population supports these actions.

Yes, the hysterical pro-lockdown authoritarians will be happy; they are a highly vocal group I'll give them that, but they are very much the minority.

If the police continue down this dangerous path, sooner or later things are going to escalate.

I really don’t envy some of the situations that the police have to deal with in the course of their duties, I know it’s definitely not a job that I could do.

This action though seems a very unnecessary one that is likely to put peoples backs up.

I wonder if the reality is that the police are actually just reminding people that their tier restrictions ‘follow’ them when moving from 3 to 2?

 

[DJH1971]

Correct me if i am wrong, but if the customer is not drinking alcohol then surely they are entitled to stay as long as they please?

Correct me if i am wrong, but if the customer is not drinking alcohol then surely they are entitled to stay as long as they please?

I really don’t envy some of the situations that the police have to deal with in the course of their duties, I know it’s definitely not a job that I could do.

This action though seems a very unnecessary one that is likely to put peoples backs up.

I wonder if the reality is that the police are actually just reminding people that their tier restrictions ‘follow’ them when moving from 3 to 2?

And as I said, will undoubtedly lead to people contesting any actions taken and clog up the courts.

 

[sjpowermac]

And as I said, will undoubtedly lead to people contesting any actions taken and clog up the courts.

Or, more likely, many will simply want to avoid the aggravation and be put off travelling.

 

[DJH1971]

Or, more likely, many will simply want to avoid the aggravation and be put off travelling.

I can still see people going as far as contesting any charges (if any can be filed against them).

 

[sjpowermac]

I can still see people going as far as contesting any charges (if any can be filed against them).

I’m absolutely not doubting that people will rightly contest any charges.

What I am saying though, is that it’s really unfair that some people will read that story and believe that they are either not ‘allowed’ to travel between tiers or decide not to make a journey (that in reality they have a right to make) simply to avoid potentially ending up in court.

For the avoidance of doubt, I’m not in any way condoning the actions of the police. As per my first post, the police should enforce the law, not guidance.

 

[DJH1971]

I’m absolutely not doubting that people will rightly contest any charges.

What I am saying though, is that it’s really unfair that some people will read that story and believe that they are either not ‘allowed’ to travel between tiers or decide not to make a journey (that in reality they have a right to make) simply to avoid potentially ending up in court.

For the avoidance of doubt, I’m not in any way condoning the actions of the police. As per my first post, the police should enforce the law, not guidance.

Precisely my point, but what Mike Walker is doing is pure bullying. They are supposed to act within the law and not beyond it.

 

[island]

The police cannot completely prevent people travelling from a tier 3 to a tier 2 area, but they do have the power to stop vehicles (section 163 of the Road Traffic Act) and attempt to discourage drivers from so travelling. If a driver indicates they wish to continue with their journey, the police have no power to prevent them.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

I used to respect the police as i believed they were for the majority not against them

Police officers swear the following oath in England & Wales: (my bold)

“I do solemnly and sincerely declare and affirm that I will well and truly serve the Queen in the office of constable, with fairness, integrity, diligence and impartiality, upholding fundamental human rights and according equal respect to all people; and that I will, to the best of my power, cause the peace to be kept and preserved and prevent all offences against people and property; and that while I continue to hold the said office I will to the best of my skill and knowledge discharge all the duties thereof faithfully according to law.”

Which is why I guess that anti-lockdown protestors chant ‘Choose your side!’

They want police officers to not act as agents of the state, but to serve the Queen and her subjects

Perhaps I should post this in the Media Coverage thread, but the fact that Piers Corbyn’s £10,000 fine was set aside did not get the same prominent coverage as the protest he was arrested at was given

Piers Corbyn found guilty of breaching regulations at lockdown protest

Brother of former Labour leader spoke at May event in London’s Hyde Park

www.theguardian.com

The judge gave Corbyn an absolute discharge – meaning he will not be fined or face any further punishment – after hearing that he had spent 12 hours in custody after being arrested.

 

[DB]

The judge gave Corbyn an absolute discharge – meaning he will not be fined or face any further punishment – after hearing that he had spent 12 hours in custody after being arrested.

That gives a rather telling indication as to what the judiciary thinks of this!

 

[TheSel]

Police officers swear the following oath in England & Wales: (my bold)

“I do solemnly and sincerely declare and affirm that I will well and truly serve the Queen in the office of constable, ...

Does that mean that each and every member of the Constabulary will have to swear a new allegiance in the event that Her Majesty is replaced by a male in due course and for whatever reason?

 

[HSTEd]

Does that mean that each and every member of the Constabulary will have to swear a new allegiance in the event that Her Majesty is replaced by a male in due course and for whatever reason?

Historically all civil servant's employment would end upon the Demise of the Crown, until 1901.

People like the House of Commons will re-swear allegiance to the new monarch.

 

[yorksrob]

It's will be interesting if this so called "post lockdown" system will led to scenes of people being stopped at checkpoints, as this will be more or less a repeat of the height of lockdown 1.

The Government has well and truly rolled over in front of lockdown obsessives.