Increase in Graffiti on the network

[stuu]

People on this thread are comparing graffiti on the railway network to burgalars or painting over private homes. Get a grip. I can't decide whether the "it's the worst order of Criminal Vandalism perpetrated by Mindless Thugs" attitude to what is literally spray-painting tags on trains is hilarious or tragic; either way, it's ridiculous.

How is it any different? Graffiti on the railway or any other public property is deliberately damaging something that doesn't belong to them. Graffiti can be fantastic art, but it still doesn't give anyone the right to do it where they please

 

[43066]

We need to make a compromise, which our society seems to find difficult with lots of things. We need more legal walls for people to do this, and people who spray it need to stop vandalising private property, especially transport infrastructure. It’s not just a bit of paint, it is more than that. Whether you like it or not, it creates an unsafe and unclean atmosphere for many.

I certainly agree with that.

At the same time I suspect the people who do graffiti with artistic merit, and use legal walls, aren’t the same people who skulk around on railway lines late at night tagging.

 

[furnessvale]

Perhaps you should accept that not everyone has the same opinion as you.

We need to make a compromise, which our society seems to find difficult with lots of things. We need more legal walls for people to do this, and people who spray it need to stop vandalising private property, especially transport infrastructure. It’s not just a bit of paint, it is more than that. Whether you like it or not, it creates an unsafe and unclean atmosphere for many.

There is also the point that on many occasions, graffiti artists put their lives at risk to do this. Maybe not so much in quiet railway yards, but a lot of graffiti can be seen in places where people have clearly had to climb walls, cross live tracks and so on. Not only does that put their own lives at risk, but it is selfish for those who have to deal with the consequences if it goes wrong, which it has done on some occasions.

I wonder how many of you have spoken to the owners of properties, including houses, in the vicinity of "legal" walls? I have and I can tell you the incidence of criminal damage (I refuse to glorify it as art) on other property increases as you approach the wall.

Presumably the criminals are treating the surrounding area as a "warm up" before starting on the "legal" stuff.

 

[dakta]

" People on this thread are comparing graffiti on the railway network to burgalars or painting over private homes. Get a grip. "

It's a valid comparison. It's so good in fact I don't expect it to get a reasoned rebuttal. 'Get a grip' is about as good as it's going to get.

 

[alex397]

I wonder how many of you have spoken to the owners of properties, including houses, in the vicinity of "legal" walls? I have and I can tell you the incidence of criminal damage (I refuse to glorify it as art) on other property increases as you approach the wall.

Presumably the criminals are treating the surrounding area as a "warm up" before starting on the "legal" stuff.

Well, legal walls need to be done properly. I’m sure there are many examples where they are put in the wrong place and not thought through properly.

I hate graffiti being sprayed in inappropriate places, but it’s always going to be here. That’s why we probably need to compromise, and have legal spaces for it.
I think it’s clear that the approach of criminalising it and constantly spending money painting over it/cleaning it off, just for it to be sprayed back on days later, is not working on its own .
It definitely should be illegal to do it in unapproved places and cleaned off soon after, but there needs to be other initiatives too.

 

[unslet]

I suspect part of the reason that current liveries are more complex than they used to be is to give the impression that the train has already had the attention of the graffiti merchants.

 

[Trainfan2019]

I suspect part of the reason that current liveries are more complex than they used to be is to give the impression that the train has already had the attention of the graffiti merchants.

There's quite a few blank canvas trains around though such as avanti. This always surprises me as it sort of is inviting graffiti.

 

[Gostav]

There's quite a few blank canvas trains around though such as avanti. This always surprises me as it sort of is inviting graffiti.

But in Japan, they have similar livery.

 

[Kilopylae]

At the same time I suspect the people who do graffiti with artistic merit, and use legal walls, aren’t the same people who skulk around on railway lines late at night tagging.

Have you ever talked to a graffiti artist?

 

[Trainfan2019]

More London Northwestern graffiti this week - pointless tagging with 'covid' on the front of a carriage. Then a couple of days later, someone's large tags on the side of a carriage. Both trains in service.

 

[al78]

Please don't call them artists. They're vandals!

Banksy would be classed as an artist, even though he pretty much does the same thing as so called graffiti artists, the only difference being he has an exceptional talent.

Not as ridiculous as the above post suggesting graffiti removal will encourage people to use the railway. Like people really hold back because of artwork. Utter nonsense.

If graffiti is rife, it gives the impression of neglect and lack of care, which can encourage criminal activity, and discourage people using the trains. I believe something along these lines happened in New York.

Broken windows theory - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Unless the graffiti is covering up an emergency information poster or a train's windscreen, it's not making the environment any less safe.

Not necessarily true.

What is broken window theory? | Definition from TechTarget

What is broken window theory? This definition explains what broken window theory is, how it was instrumental in the transformation of New York City and how the same principle is applied in business management.

whatis.techtarget.com

 

[RichT54]

An Island Line train has been vandalised again.

What's Going On
Due to vandalism on a train between Shanklin and Ryde Pier Head fewer trains are able to run on the line. Train services running to and from these stations will be reduced to an hourly service. Disruption is expected until the end of the day.

What We're Doing About It
We have been informed that one of the two trains on the Island Line has been vandalised overnight. This means that only one train will be able to run on the Island Line today.


- Trains will depart Ryde Pier head at xx:49
- Trains will depart Shanklin at xx:18


For further information or onward travel advice please speak to a member of staff or use a station help point.


We are very sorry for any delay that this may cause to your journey.


Further Information
If you would prefer to use local buses to continue your journey please check Traveline http://www.traveline.info/ - South Western Railway tickets are not valid on local buses unless stated above.

 

[ExRes]

An Island Line train has been vandalised again.

The link is dated 7 September, is there a current as yet unreported act of vandalism?

 

[RichT54]

The link is dated 7 September, is there a current as yet unreported act of vandalism?

Apologies, I got the information from https://www.southwesternrailway.com/plan-my-journey/live-departures-and-arrivals today.

See also: https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions/259187.aspx

 

[nlogax]

Don't give the slightest damn about how great some graffiti artists are or how worthy their creations are of being classified as art. Railways aren't the place for it.

The vast majority of what I see at the London end of the SWML isn't art, it's just grotty, ugly tagging which leaves the railway looking tatty and miserable.

 

[alex397]

Don't give the slightest damn about how great some graffiti artists are or how worthy their creations are of being classified as art. Railways aren't the place for it.

The vast majority of what I see at the London end of the SWML isn't art, it's just grotty, ugly tagging which leaves the railway looking tatty and miserable.

Agree with you here. Whilst some graffiti is very artistic, railways are not the place for it. There is the safety aspect which some overlook - in many cases needing to cross live railways in order to reach their spot. People doing this have died as a result - I remember there was that case in London where 3 of them were all hit at once and died.

Just leaving graffiti on railway infrastructure and rolling stock will no doubt encourage others to also tag in those dangerous areas.

It should be left to legal walls or commissions.

 

[najaB]

It should be left to legal walls or commissions.

Can't disagree with that.

 

[philthetube]

In my opinion, graffiti makes an area or train/system look old, unsafe, dirty and unappealing. I personally like the MRT railway system in Singapore, which is modern, clean and well kept. Not that I condone the punishment, but a few years ago some people broke into a depot in Singapore and tagged a train. They were caught and sentenced to nine months in jail, and were also subjected to physical punishment. I think that these measures are rather over-the-top and probably violate some human rights laws, but the lack of graffiti and vandalism really makes for a great transportation system.

9 months seems fair to me, just a pity it can't be spent removing graffiti, don't agree with physical punishment though.

It might even save a few lives if it keeps people off the tracks.

Interesting that the only comparisons made here are either 1980 New York City during a crime wave, a bankrupt Balkan nation, or a dictatorship that gave the last person caught tagging a train 12 lashes and years in jail.

How about comparing it to the London Underground in the late 90's when att the interiors were covered with black felt tip writing and all the windows etched to the extent you struggled to see out of some.

Banksy would be classed as an artist, even though he pretty much does the same thing as so called graffiti artists, the only difference being he has an exceptional talent.

banksy is a vandal with artistic talant.

I find it interesting that comments of this forum always have sympathy for graffiti artists killed on tracks, where I have worked the response has always been, good, that's one less to worry about

 

[Turtle]

9 months seems fair to me, just a pity it can't be spent removing graffiti, don't agree with physical punishment though.

It might even save a few lives if it keeps people off the tracks.



I find it interesting that comments of this forum always have sympathy for graffiti artists killed on tracks, where I have worked the response has always been, good, that's one less to worry about

My view entirely. If you put yourself in danger to pursue a criminal enterprise that's your problem.