Increase in homophobic verbal abuse?

[AviationFR]

The perception that 'Brexiters'


A very sweeping generalisation and a very negative one too. One of the single worst things that happened post referendum was that both sides resorted to some rather vitriolic name calling and generalisations about each other. One of which was that Brexiters hated foreigners

Another comment

That 'Brexiters' 'believe they are right but aren't ? This is extremely dismissive and also ignorant of what people believe in.

And then this

Really, Homophobes have other prejudices ? and then go on to equate homophobia with xenophobia and then full circle that Brexiters are xenophobic.

Its a lot of 'opinion' that's for sure.

I don't think you've quite understood where everyone is coming from here
1) Opinion. Everyone's allowed to say there's because of free speech, something that Brexit people always talk about
2) This is simply a thread where I can see whether an incident of homophobia directed towards me correlates towards a general trend, which has evolved into a general discussion for LGBTQIA+ people to talk about their experiences, or lack of, not a place where people are coming to shut people down

Feel free to continue saying whatever you want to say - free speech is valued, but please don't suggest people want to be offensive

 

[ComUtoR]

Homophobic=Xenophobic
Brexiter=Xenophobic

Therefore

Homophobic=Brexiter

This really isn't the case and is part of the reasons why stereotypes and prejudices exist in the first place. Because people equate specific traits and belief with certain groups those people then get lumped in together. In fact, that's what happened way back in the day with Homosexuals and Aids. There was a false belief that They were sexually promiscuous and were therefore spreading the disease. If these false equivalents that help perpetuate stereotypes.

I don't think you've quite understood where everyone is coming from here
1) Opinion. Everyone's allowed to say there's because of free speech, something that Brexit people always talk about

Who are 'Brexit people' are they the same as 'Homosexual people' Can Homosexuals support Brexit ? Can Homosexual people be Xenophobic ? I find a certain irony with people being labelled, categorised, and often vilified, doing exactly the same towards others.

2) This is simply a thread where I can see whether an incident of homophobia directed towards me correlates towards a general trend, which has evolved into a general discussion for LGBTQIA+ people to talk about their experiences, or lack of, not a place where people are coming to shut people down

A forum is not, and should not be an echo chamber. Your experience was horrid and I wait for the day for society to evolve where people can be accepted for whomever they are or wish to be. Not gonna happen in my lifetime and as society shifts its only going to get worse before it gets better. I would say that its more noticeable nowadays because people are more open about their identity. Back when I was younger, I doubt you would see any same sex couples walking hand in hand down the high street, let alone full blown PDAs

feel free to continue saying whatever you want to say - free speech is valued, but please don't suggest people want to be offensive

I wasn't and haven't. Just that making sweeping generalisations about specific groups, that are based in opinion, not fact is pretty much the definition of prejudice (link to google definition of prejudice)

As someone who as lived their entire life being singled out for belonging to a specific group I see that same vitriolic and damaging behaviour and language used towards those who supported either side of the Brexit debate. Anything where someone can say "you are [insert label] therefore you are [insert label]" needs to be called out.

 

[AviationFR]

Who are 'Brexit people' are they the same as 'Homosexual people' Can Homosexuals support Brexit ? Can Homosexual people be Xenophobic ? I find a certain irony with people being labelled, categorised, and often vilified, doing exactly the same towards others.

The point I was making in the post had nothing to do with LGBTQIA+ people. The point I made is that, typically, people on the right like to make points relating to free speech. I apologise if this was not clear.

A forum is not, and should not be an echo chamber. Your experience was horrid and I wait for the day for society to evolve where people can be accepted for whomever they are or wish to be. Not gonna happen in my lifetime and as society shifts its only going to get worse before it gets better. I would say that its more noticeable nowadays because people are more open about their identity. Back when I was younger, I doubt you would see any same sex couples walking hand in hand down the high street, let alone full blown PDAs

How is it an echo chamber?! I appreciate your hopes for the future, but in what way is having a simple discussion about homophobia an echo chamber!?

 

[farleigh]

Probably true that most homophobic people supported Brexit as most people in the UK supported Brexit?

The minority that supported Remain must have less numbers?

What am I missing...?

 

[PeterC]

Probably true that most homophobic people supported Brexit as most people in the UK supported Brexit?

The minority that supported Remain must have less numbers?

What am I missing...?

The suggestion is that the substantially more than 52% of homophobes supported brexit.

I have no idea if that is true or not but it is an assumption about the political opinions of homophones not about the prevelance of homophones among brexitiers

 

[nw1]

Probably true that most homophobic people supported Brexit as most people in the UK supported Brexit?

That is the lie that Brexiters keep coming out with. The truth is "of those eligible to vote, marginally more voted for Brexit than voted for remain". Different to "most people in the UK supported Brexit", which is absolutely false.

Of those eligible to vote, 37% voted Brexit, 34% voted remain, the others didn't vote. And of course EU citizens were denied the vote even though they are more directly affected than British citizens, and the Leave campaign told blatant lies that there would be no change to their status under Brexit. Under-18s were denied the vote even though most 16 or 17 year olds are old enough to have opinions about things, are old enough to get married, and (in the case of a 17 year old) old enough to drive a car.

But back to the main discussion, IMX there is a subset of people who have a whole range of prejudices against different minorities. I suspect that it's likely that a homophobic person is more likely to be xenophobic compared to the general population. And I suspect that it's likely that a xenophobic person is more likely to be homophobic compared to the general population, and that a Brexit supporter is more likely to be xenophobic than a Remainer or someone neutral on the matter. It doesn't mean that all Brexit supporters are xenophobic, of course - but I suspect that most xenophobic people in the UK did vote for Brexit.

 

[duncanp]

The idea that increased homophobia is a consequence of Brexit is the biggest load of rubbish I have heard of for a long time.

It just tars all Brexit supporters with the same brush, and people who make such statements exhibit the same prejudice that they profess to condemn.

Homophobia exists in EU member states just as much as it exists in the UK, and those people in the UK who are currently homophobic would be just as homophobic had we voted to remain in 2016.

I don't deny that homophobia exists, but in general it has become far less acceptable in recent years. Make a homophobic comment, and you can be sacked from your job or thrown out of a pub.

For the record, I voted to Remain in 2016.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

I must say, that I do wear Rainbow Laces and sometimes a rainbow mask and have in fact been completed on them both.

It is sad when these things still happen though.

 

[S-Car-Go]

I must say, that I do wear Rainbow Laces and sometimes a rainbow mask and have in fact been completed on them both.

Have been readiing, with interest, this thread a month hence.

And now it's Pride month, I thought I should be a bit more umm...visible, in stations, and a colourful wave to camera-toting spotters

 

[al78]

Really, Homophobes have other prejudices ? and then go on to equate homophobia with xenophobia and then full circle that Brexiters are xenophobic.

Its a lot of 'opinion' that's for sure.

It is logical that having one irrational prejucide makes it likely one will have others. It comes down to a particular mindset, directing hatred onto a minority group*, which is what the gutter press like the Daily Mail loves to do.

*In the case of Brexit, immigrants were that group, providing a convenient scapegoat to blame for unemployment and housing shortages in the UK, again, fueled by some media outlets. People fall for it because the population is largely crap at objective analysis and researching facts, or can't be bothered, so use their favourite media to tell them what to think.

 

[Howardh]

I try to keep to places which are hospitable and those are the better places anyway...the places I try to avoid I would be avoiding anyway regardless of sexuality. Happily I've had no issues on trains and a big thumbs up to a lady staff member at Trinity Street if she's reading this!

As for Brexit; much as I hate it I can't comment on whether voters are GLTB "haters" so I'll make my excuses and avoid discussing that!!

 

[Scotrail12]

I try to keep to places which are hospitable and those are the better places anyway...the places I try to avoid I would be avoiding anyway regardless of sexuality. Happily I've had no issues on trains and a big thumbs up to a lady staff member at Trinity Street if she's reading this!

I definitely think the venue plays a part in it. Whilst people are unlikely to be outright homophobic, you can often feel a vibe somewhere as to whether or not you'll really be accepted there. I detest going to the gym for instance, the one I usually go to definitely has a vibe that I don't feel comfortable with as a gay person and I often feel like I have to leave my personality at the door for an hour with the personal trainer (who just keeps ranting about being anti-woke and all that). Never once mentioned being gay to him in a year of being his client and for good reason.

 

[HullRailMan]

Some very wild generalisations going on in this thread. Some of the most homophobic elements of British society are those with strong religious beliefs, often linked to immigrant communities whose faith originates in other parts of the world. Presumably these are also xenophobic Brexit voters? Doesn’t quite fit the narrative.

its Important to avoid generalising when talking about groups of people as if they all think the same because of a common trait. I’m gay (not LGBTQ etc etc) and voted leave. I’ve never received homophobic abuse, but then I don’t feel the need to go about wearing rainbows. I have, however, been mocked for being northern and shouted at by passers-by while plane spotting. What I’ve never done is use these as examples to suggest I’m some sort of victim of hate. Certain people will always be wary of those that are different to them, I’m afraid it’s basic human nature, the fear of the ‘other’.

 

[GusB]

Some very wild generalisations going on in this thread. Some of the most homophobic elements of British society are those with strong religious beliefs, often linked to immigrant communities whose faith originates in other parts of the world. Presumably these are also xenophobic Brexit voters? Doesn’t quite fit the narrative.

It's a bit of a wild generalisation to assume that homophobia is down to strong religious beliefs linked to immigrant communities.

I've experienced some homophobia in my life; most of it resulting from strong indigenous religious beliefs.

 

[AlterEgo]

It's a bit of a wild generalisation to assume that homophobia is down to strong religious beliefs linked to immigrant communities.

It’s generally correct though. London is by far the most homophobic city in Britain, mostly because of the conservative religious demographic among immigrant communities. I expect you simply don’t spend most of your time in those communities which is why your experience in (very white, not very diverse!) Scotland is that it’s white people being homophobic towards you.

 

[GS250]

Some very wild generalisations going on in this thread. Some of the most homophobic elements of British society are those with strong religious beliefs, often linked to immigrant communities whose faith originates in other parts of the world. Presumably these are also xenophobic Brexit voters? Doesn’t quite fit the narrative.

its Important to avoid generalising when talking about groups of people as if they all think the same because of a common trait. I’m gay (not LGBTQ etc etc) and voted leave. I’ve never received homophobic abuse, but then I don’t feel the need to go about wearing rainbows. I have, however, been mocked for being northern and shouted at by passers-by while plane spotting. What I’ve never done is use these as examples to suggest I’m some sort of victim of hate. Certain people will always be wary of those that are different to them, I’m afraid it’s basic human nature, the fear of the ‘other’.

Give this man a medal.

You can be gay, right wing but voted to remain. You can also be gay, left wing but voted to leave. You can be straight, left wing and voted to leave. You can be straight, right wing but voted to remain. Not all 'groups' are part of a cult who absolutely have to act in a pre determined way. It does appear its the fringe elements who seem to be the ones stirring up all the ill feeling.

I'm white, straight, socially right wing, economically central, voted to leave, pro Monarchy and I like football. According to some that means my lifelong friendship with an anglo-muslim should never have been. Also, I should not be talking to or showing any concern for a work colleague, who is openly gay. Some 'scene' left wingers at work are often surprised at the compassion I show towards others. This is spite of my apparent ill credentials. This is their problem....not mine.

 

[windingroad]

It's a bit of a wild generalisation to assume that homophobia is down to strong religious beliefs linked to immigrant communities.

I've experienced some homophobia in my life; most of it resulting from strong indigenous religious beliefs.

It’s generally correct though. London is by far the most homophobic city in Britain, mostly because of the conservative religious demographic among immigrant communities. I expect you simply don’t spend most of your time in those communities which is why your experience in (very white, not very diverse!) Scotland is that it’s white people being homophobic towards you.

Isn't it more accurate (and less divisive) to just say that it's religious conservatives in general which tend to be most homophobic? I'd argue it's the combination of the two that's most predictive, rather than the religion itself.

 

[S-Car-Go]

Isn't it more accurate (and less divisive) to just say that it's religious conservatives in general which tend to be most homophobic? I'd argue it's the combination of the two that's most predictive, rather than the religion itself.

Yeah I'd agree with that. Religious conservatism and fundamentalism tends to be homophobic. However the most homophobia I've witnessed or experienced has come from white British working & middle class men and teens (from when I was at school). They may or may not have been religious, but they were c@#ts.

Someone earlier said they were gay but not LGBTQ. *confused* because what does the G stand for then? This would explain why you haven't experienced homophobic abuse if you barely consider yourself part of the community. Most LGBTQ people have experienced it in some form or another.

I don't go around wearing rainbows everyday, but I thought I'd be more visible during Pride month at work. My point is It's important to normalise being gay to the public, and since I don't get to talk to them much, I'll be more visible on the platform or waving from the cab

 

[windingroad]

Yeah I'd agree with that. Religious conservatism and fundamentalism tends to be homophobic. However the most homophobia I've witnessed or experienced has come from white British working & middle class men and teens (from when I was at school). They may or may not have been religious, but they were c@#ts.

That's a good point, and the fact football remains so badly behind the times is a symptom of this.

I’ve never received homophobic abuse, but then I don’t feel the need to go about wearing rainbows

What a strange thing to say. If simply "wearing rainbows" is so upsetting for someone that they engage in abuse, I'd suggest we have a very long way to go.

I don't go around wearing rainbows everyday, but I thought I'd be more visible during Pride month at work. My point is It's important to normalise being gay to the public, and since I don't get to talk to them much, I'll be more visible on the platform or waving from the cab

Good on you, and there's no need to justify it.

 

[Scotrail12]

Yeah I'd agree with that. Religious conservatism and fundamentalism tends to be homophobic. However the most homophobia I've witnessed or experienced has come from white British working & middle class men and teens (from when I was at school). They may or may not have been religious, but they were c@#ts.

It does kinda baffle me that a younger non-religious guy would be homophobic since they don't have any 'reason' so to speak (doesn't make it good but I can at least understand why an older and/or religious person may be homophobic and would act accordingly, pretend to be straight when seeing grandparents).

Did come across the odd person like that when I was at school though, one of them obviously knew I was gay and kept asking if I loved him whilst he was laughing away. Sadly he's still trying it when I run into him despite the fact that both of us are adults and graduated a few years ago.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

I wear rainbow laces all the time and sometimes a rainbow face mask & tie too and have had lots of complimentary comments from other ladies and gentlemen.

A friend has just bought me from Tesco's, a black Tee Shirt with Love for Everyone on it. I think they bought this out as it is Pride season, as a label with the garment, says that they will donate a percentage of each sale to a Gay Charity. (A while ago, one of the model railway manufacturers, bought out a 00 gauge Pride wagon and again proceeds from that were going to charity too.)

 

[Strathclyder]

Isn't it more accurate (and less divisive) to just say that it's religious conservatives in general which tend to be most homophobic? I'd argue it's the combination of the two that's most predictive, rather than the religion itself.

Yeah I'd agree with that. Religious conservatism and fundamentalism tends to be homophobic. However the most homophobia I've witnessed or experienced has come from white British working & middle class men and teens (from when I was at school). They may or may not have been religious, but they were c@#ts.

Yeah, I'd agree with both of these based on observations and personal experiences. Some right tossers regardless of their religious status.

I’ve never received homophobic abuse, but then I don’t feel the need to go about wearing rainbows.

You don't necessarily have to be 'wearing rainbows' to be on the receiving end of homophobic abuse.

Besides, if my wearing Pride bracelets is all it takes for someone of that mindset to knock seven bells out of me and/or verbally excoriate me with every homophobic slur in the book, that's more their problem than it is mine. While I of course try to minimize my interactions with them as much as possible, I will not be going back into the closet so that such knuckle draggers feel emboldened in their bigotry, ignorance and hatred.

It does kinda baffle me that a younger non-religious guy would be homophobic since they don't have any 'reason' so to speak (doesn't make it good but I can at least understand why an older and/or religious person may be homophobic and would act accordingly, pretend to be straight when seeing grandparents).

On a somewhat similar tack, it's rather surprising (not really) how many homophobes end up coming out/being outed as gay/bisexual etc.

I don't go around wearing rainbows everyday, but I thought I'd be more visible during Pride month at work. My point is It's important to normalise being gay to the public, and since I don't get to talk to them much, I'll be more visible on the platform or waving from the cab

Good on you.

 

[AviationFR]

Besides, if my wearing Pride bracelets is all it takes for someone of that mindset to knock seven bells out of me and/or verbally excoriate me with every homophobic slur in the book, that's more their problem than it is mine. While I of course try to minimize my interactions with them as much as possible, I will not be going back into the closet so that such knuckle draggers feel emboldened in their bigotry, ignorance and hatred.

Absolutely! If people are so offended by such minor things then not only is that a poor reflection on certain aspects of society, but it's their problem, not mine. My truth is my truth, i dont give a damn what they think about it! Sorry if that sounds rather... angered or something but it's kinda the way I feel!

 

[Strathclyder]

Absolutely! If people are so offended by such minor things then not only is that a poor reflection on certain aspects of society, but it's their problem, not mine. My truth is my truth, i dont give a damn what they think about it! Sorry if that sounds rather... angered or something but it's kinda the way I feel!

No apologies are necessary, as it's entirely correct in both respects.

On a entirely personal note but still related to this particular point, I fought with myself with respect to my sexuality for a long time and I'll say without hyperbole that my accepting myself as a gay man was simultaneously one of the hardest & most liberating things I've ever done and a personal highpoint in my life, so the mere thought of reneging on all that - not to mention my own personal happiness/contentment - purely for the benefit of such people is as insulting as it is laughable.

Like I said above, I ain't going back into the closet for anyone, least of all them.

 

[windingroad]

On a entirely personal note but still related to this particular point, I fought with myself with respect to my sexuality for a long time and I'll say without hyperbole that my accepting myself as a gay man was simultaneously one of the hardest & most liberating things I've ever done and a personal highpoint in my life, so the mere thought of reneging on all that - not to mention my own personal happieness/contentment - purely for the benefit of such people is as insulting as it is laughable.

Like I said above, I ain't going back into the closet for anyone, least of all them.

I wish I could give you a hug for this! I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that representation (and I include people publicly "wearing rainbows" in that) saves lives.

 

[jb108822]

In my last job, I'd wear rainbow laces in my shoes, a rainbow lanyard, and two rainbow pin badges. At my current job, I only have one more subtle rainbow pin (recently purchased from the Manchester Shop) which I wear on my lanyard, as I don't really want to have too much that could get lost. Furthermore, I'd probably end up setting the metal detectors at work off if I go too near them! It's a bit difficult for me to show my support for the LGBTQ+ community, not least because my parents (largely my dad, to be completely honest) aren't exactly supportive, which I guess comes with the territory of him being a Methodist minister who holds to the 'traditional' view on human sexuality. Given I'm gay, that makes it even more challenging, and it's safe to say that my mental health has taken a battering over the past ten or so years since I first realised I was gay at the age of 19. To keep it brief, it's been a huge struggle to reconcile my faith and my sexuality, and it's still a struggle to this day, though it's nowhere near as much of a problem now as it used to be.

In the past eight months, I've come out to my minister (different person to my dad) and a couple of members of my church, and that's been such a help to have a weight lifted off my shoulders. It's a struggle to be open about my sexuality among people at church (and also with family, though I think my older brother almost certainly suspects something by this point), especially when a number of them are VERY strong on the 'traditional' view of marriage, to the point where the minister wouldn't let me see the feedback she received regarding same-sex marriage as some of it was so vile. With anyone else, though, I'm just really open and honest. I just casually drop it into conversation and see how they react. Tends to work quite well. I do sometimes wear a small rainbow cross pin to church, but hardly anyone's noticed it so far, which I guess is partially because I don't get to go there very often now on account of working so many Sundays at the airport. In fact, the only person who's noticed it is my minister, and she clocked it almost instantly!

When I do finally come out to my parents, I'm not letting them force me to stay in the closet. I've had to hide a huge part of who I am for years, and it's so incredibly draining. To quote Love, Simon, "I'm done living in a world where I don't get to be who I am." I'm trying to be subtly more visible with regard to my support for the LGBTQ+ community, but it's hard to know what to do sometimes, especially with clothing stuff, as Mum will often notice new things I'm wearing quite quickly. She's really observant like that. It's part of the reason why I don't want to have any overly supportive messages on items of clothing at the moment, as it'd almost certainly invoke a few awkward questions before I'm ready to answer them. Sucks, but I have to keep my safety at the forefront.

 

[windingroad]

In my last job, I'd wear rainbow laces in my shoes, a rainbow lanyard, and two rainbow pin badges. At my current job, I only have one more subtle rainbow pin (recently purchased from the Manchester Shop) which I wear on my lanyard, as I don't really want to have too much that could get lost. Furthermore, I'd probably end up setting the metal detectors at work off if I go too near them! It's a bit difficult for me to show my support for the LGBTQ+ community, not least because my parents (largely my dad, to be completely honest) aren't exactly supportive, which I guess comes with the territory of him being a Methodist minister who holds to the 'traditional' view on human sexuality. Given I'm gay, that makes it even more challenging, and it's safe to say that my mental health has taken a battering over the past ten or so years since I first realised I was gay at the age of 19. To keep it brief, it's been a huge struggle to reconcile my faith and my sexuality, and it's still a struggle to this day, though it's nowhere near as much of a problem now as it used to be.

In the past eight months, I've come out to my minister (different person to my dad) and a couple of members of my church, and that's been such a help to have a weight lifted off my shoulders. It's a struggle to be open about my sexuality among people at church (and also with family, though I think my older brother almost certainly suspects something by this point), especially when a number of them are VERY strong on the 'traditional' view of marriage, to the point where the minister wouldn't let me see the feedback she received regarding same-sex marriage as some of it was so vile. With anyone else, though, I'm just really open and honest. I just casually drop it into conversation and see how they react. Tends to work quite well. I do sometimes wear a small rainbow cross pin to church, but hardly anyone's noticed it so far, which I guess is partially because I don't get to go there very often now on account of working so many Sundays at the airport. In fact, the only person who's noticed it is my minister, and she clocked it almost instantly!

When I do finally come out to my parents, I'm not letting them force me to stay in the closet. I've had to hide a huge part of who I am for years, and it's so incredibly draining. To quote Love, Simon, "I'm done living in a world where I don't get to be who I am." I'm trying to be subtly more visible with regard to my support for the LGBTQ+ community, but it's hard to know what to do sometimes, especially with clothing stuff, as Mum will often notice new things I'm wearing quite quickly. She's really observant like that. It's part of the reason why I don't want to have any overly supportive messages on items of clothing at the moment, as it'd almost certainly invoke a few awkward questions before I'm ready to answer them. Sucks, but I have to keep my safety at the forefront.

You deserve all the love and support possible, and I hope you get it when the time comes.

 

[jb108822]

You deserve all the love and support possible, and I hope you get it when the time comes.

Thanks. I'm lucky to have some wonderful friends around me who've all been so supportive. I particularly needed it from my colleagues during the initial stages of the pandemic.

 

[Strathclyder]

I wish I could give you a hug for this!

Such a sentiement is very much appreciated, thank you.

I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that representation (and I include people publicly "wearing rainbows" in that) saves lives.

Quite. Representation, but far more importantly, a supportive home environment is key to a LGBTQ person's mental well-being/contentment. I'm not ignorant to the tragic reality that I was very lucky to have a incredibly positive reaction from my parents - my mum was rather surprised at first, but that quickly gave way to full-blown support - and to have a incredibly supportive family as a whole. I've heard of and have read the horror stories and it only makes me all the more grateful for the support I have.