Information for GTR Southern passengers during strike (no DOO discussion)

[infobleep]

Most of the posts in this thread aren't about the strike service. They are mainly about the daily shambles of a service.

Unfortunately a lor of problems are intertwined. Some are because of the strike and others, such as not employing enough staff before the strike, aren't.

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[Minstral25]

I'm sure they wouldn't, the latter presumably still being Alex Foulds, with whom I used to work in a former very different role. I wish you the best of luck calling them to account - unless their HMG masters also attend (and probably even if they do), it will be futile, sadly. These local meetings have been happening for years or decades, and the service standard seems only to have regressed, rather than progressed. Any timetable changes will only work if the basic operational failings that are rife on the network are tackled, and I see no sign of that happening.

And that attitude means that nothing is said and nothing will be done. It's Angie Doll now and she looked like a rabbit in the headlights. The meeting was good and feelings made very clear and very valid points put across. Will anything happen, well if the meeting hadn't occurred nothing would!

 

[Deepgreen]

And that attitude means that nothing is said and nothing will be done. It's Angie Doll now and she looked like a rabbit in the headlights. The meeting was good and feelings made very clear and very valid points put across. Will anything happen, well if the meeting hadn't occurred nothing would!

I just happen to think that with the countless detailed and structured complaints, and follow-ups to MD and MP level that I (among hundreds of others I suspect) have made to GTR about Redhill over the years, I have said what I need to say already. My points, and those made by many other passengers that I know, have seemingly been ignored, because the management focus is really not on passenger satisfaction, it is on cost savings and target attainment (the latter to a lesser extent under the current relaxed arrangements).

I don't believe that these public meetings do anything different - the attendees will leave with possible 'actions' to disseminate to others, which will then be lost in the system, in exactly the same way as the countless complaints and suggestions made in the past (and which will have been done in a much more structured way than a shouting match at a meeting).

If GTR's senior management aren't already fully aware of the anger among their passengers, then no amount of these meetings will educate them!

 

[Surreytraveller]

If GTR's senior management aren't already fully aware of the anger among their passengers, then no amount of these meetings will educate them!

I think senior management are totally blinkered. They are completely disinterested in what's going on, and believe that if they p*@& all the staff off for long enough, the problems will mysteriously go away.

 

[infobleep]

I think senior management are totally blinkered. They are completely disinterested in what's going on, and believe that if they p*@& all the staff off for long enough, the problems will mysteriously go away.

Well I hope you are he problems don't go away until they get resolved.

I can see there Deepgreen is coming from.

Equally, perhaps the manage are hoping people will be weared down so much that they will give up.

I once read that the music producer Phil Spector made all the session musicians play the backing track for a song for 3+ hours. They would then all be very tired and he would then record all the takes, which could be over 25. He did this because with them very tired, they would not act as an individual but just collectively as he wanted. He could mould them.

Perhaps GTR management think if they wear the commuters down enough, they can mould them to fit their needs too. I. E. so they shut up and put up with it.

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[Deepgreen]

The 0831 Redhill to Victoria (the normal 377/6) was a few minutes late and busier than usual this morning. The first class was at the rear, and occupied by large numbers of standard class ticket holders (easily told by the way that they walk up and down the train to find a seat, fail, and then sit in first anyway).

No sign of the guard, and we only became aware that one was even aboard when he made the usual pointless repeat of the recorded announcement approaching Clapham Junction. However, my assumption that, yet again, he had been operating from somewhere near the front of the train was corrected when he emerged between Clapham and Victoria from the far rear of the train to scuttle through to the front for a quick getaway! So, he was at the back but didn't bother to check first class, which was immediately adjacent to his door set!

I never thought I would feel this way, but I am rapidly coming to the unfortunate conclusion that the guards are bringing everything on themselves here by their open almost total disinterest in anything but operating the doors en route. No doubt the OBSs will be no better, but with even less to do.

 

[Heartland]

It is a natural reaction to put the action on the train conductors (guards), as industrial action has been the result of policy decisions by the franchise operator. Sadly at the heart of this set of events remains profit for the franchise holder. In the time of British Rail this was not an issue, although pay was and the various unions sought to improve that aspect and resulted to strike action where necessary. In the days of the financially challenged BR, similar commuter opinions were often voiced. Now however fares are much more higher and service performance not always the best. A simple solution to the present Southern malady would be to bring it back under Government Control. It would allow breathing space to find the best solution in what is a time of changing technology and changing customer trends,

 

[maniacmartin]

Heartland, please use the DOO and related issues thread to discuss opinions on DOO and the causes of industrial action.

 

[infobleep]

According to the BBC London News, Southern are running 62% of their train services today.

Does anyone know which additional services are running to make up the extra 1%. On the strikes around the 8th, it was claimed only had 61% of services were running.

How many trains would make up 1%?

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[XDM]

Local radio are wrong, it is likely to be more than 62% at the end of today. Three Bridges to Horsham,fast & stopping, went DOO last week,so they will not need guards,helpful on strike days & adding to the running percentage. Local radios' info comes from,presumably,Southern's press office & they won't know the percentage running until the end of today. But they will know the minimum,which will be the local radio figure.

 

[87015]

Local radio are wrong, it is likely to be more than 62% at the end of today. Three Bridges to Horsham,fast & stopping, went DOO last week,so they will not need guards,helpful on strike days & adding to the running percentage. Local radios' info comes from,presumably,Southern's press office & they won't know the percentage running until the end of today. But they will know the minimum,which will be the local radio figure.

The 61/62% will be based on the days plan and not reflect actuality though won't it? Its only a minimum if they don't cancel anything planned to run which is err, not even an outside possibility.

 

[Deepgreen]

The 61/62% will be based on the days plan and not reflect actuality though won't it? Its only a minimum if they don't cancel anything planned to run which is err, not even an outside possibility.

Many cancellations and major late running, even on the Dorking route this morning. Shambolic information as usual - at Dorking the incoming train from Horsham (running empty in parallel with its replacement bus!) was about ten minutes late, and had left Horsham so, but nevertheless was still described at Dorking as being on time, and then in increments of another minute late every minute, so that by the time it arrived it was shown as being the correct (and already known by the staff), ten minutes late! It was also described as "not for public use", which wasn't corrected by the dozy Dorking staff before it left (who had made a live announcement at 0938 that it would arrive at 0936!!).

It just gets no better, and the general impression is that none of the staff care what they say or when they say it - it is almost as if they are paid commission on saying something, no matter how wrong it is, rather than bothering to try to give correct and useful information. People were openly laughing at these idiots, who make me ashamed to be in the same industry as them.

Strong feelings maybe, but the whole saga is just going from bad to worse with no apparent management by anyone with any ability to run a railway, or even grasp how to provide useful information.

 

[infobleep]

The 61/62% will be based on the days plan and not reflect actuality though won't it? Its only a minimum if they don't cancel anything planned to run which is err, not even an outside possibility.

Well with the electrical power supply issues this meaning, there will have been some cancellations.

Even if it's based on the planned running, that means an extra percentage or enough of less than a percentage to take it over 61.5% if rounding up, has to have occurred.

Thay must therefore translate to additional planned trains. So does anyone know what these are? The extra 1% can't come out of thin air, assuming it's not a typo by the BBC. 2 is after all right next to 1 on the keyboard.

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--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Many cancellations and major late running, even on the Dorking route this morning. Shambolic information as usual - at Dorking the incoming train from Horsham (running empty in parallel with its replacement bus!) was about ten minutes late, and had left Horsham so, but nevertheless was still described at Dorking as being on time, and then in increments of another minute late every minute, so that by the time it arrived it was shown as being the correct (and already known by the staff), ten minutes late! It was also described as "not for public use", which wasn't corrected by the dozy Dorking staff before it left (who had made a live announcement at 0938 that it would arrive at 0936!!).

It just gets no better, and the general impression is that none of the staff care what they say or when they say it - it is almost as if they are paid commission on saying something, no matter how wrong it is, rather than bothering to try to give correct and useful information. People were openly laughing at these idiots, who make me ashamed to be in the same industry as them.

Strong feelings maybe, but the whole saga is just going from bad to worse with no apparent management by anyone with any ability to run a railway, or even grasp how to provide useful information.

I did wonder if Southern could claim compensation from Network Rail today, for the signalling issues at Effingham Junction, given that they wouldn't have been running any trains to Guildford anyway due to the strike! If they can't might save Network Rail a little bit of money.

National Rail Enquiries said today that South West Trains services to Dorking were being diverted via Woking. So incorrect advice isn't just limited to Southern.

The problem as I see it, is that there is so much going on that staff can't keep up with the disruption information, so in amongst all of this, mistakes sometimes occur.

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[Deepgreen]

Well with the electrical power supply issues this meaning, there will have been some cancellations.

Even if it's based on the planned running, that means an extra percentage or enough of less than a percentage to take it over 61.5% if rounding up, has to have occurred.

Thay must therefore translate to additional planned trains. So does anyone know what these are? The extra 1% can't come out of thin air, assuming it's not a typo by the BBC. 2 is after all right next to 1 on the keyboard.

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--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I did wonder if Southern could claim compensation from Network Rail today, for the signalling issues at Effingham Junction, given that they wouldn't have been running any trains to Guildford anyway due to the strike! If they can't might save Network Rail a little bit of money.

National Rail Enquiries said today that South West Trains services to Dorking were being diverted via Woking. So incorrect advice isn't just limited to Southern.

The problem as I see it, is that there is so much going on that staff can't keep up with the disruption information, so in amongst all of this, mistakes sometimes occur.

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So Southern could claim money from Network Rail, which is HMG-funded, and then Southern, under its franchise terms, would pay that revenue back to HMG. Who wins? The accountants.

If only it was "sometimes"!!

 

[Hophead]

First class is declassified on strike days

 

[Deepgreen]

First class is declassified on strike days

Yes, but why is this relevant at this point?

 

[Gareth4949]

Just turned up to find the 442 on the 17:30
Great move replacing a normal 12 car train with 5 cars , on a strike day
What about all the spare units not being used for the normal 442 Eastbourne to London Bridge runs today

 

[Bishopstone]

Yes, but why is this relevant at this point?

In case First Class customers were wondering why their compartment was full of Standard passengers, and the usual rigorous ticket check was absent?

<tongue out of cheek>

My observation today is that the Thameslink London Bridge - Brighton service has, again, suffered a great number of cancellations, which is very unhelpful when Southern services are thinned. Just as a reminder... it's not long, now, before GTR need to find enough drivers to work these diagrams through to Cambridge, never mind London Bridge.

Various coast-bound trains are picking-up delays at Clapham Junction and East Croydon, this evening. I assume the reason is heavy passenger loadings, rather than the daily loss of ten minutes due to congestion.

 

[Chrisgr31]

I went to the National Rail site this morning as advised by Southern and found that the 7.05 from Uckfield was running. I went to the station and found it was cancelled due to industrial action, which was irritating.

Ah well one cancellation to take the figures down!

 

[infobleep]

Interestingly the Evening Standard said 61% of services were running. This means they either wrote the story some time before GTR issued today's figures or the BBC got it wrong. Both are also possible. The Evening Standard could have written their news article last month and it would have read OK.

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[tsr]

Southern/GX/TL train services further disrupted today due to an earlier track circuit failure near Chichester, a Class 700 on 1W28 with brake failure closing the BML at Hassocks, and various poor rail conditions.

EDIT: Preparations underway to move stock from 1W28 as 5W28 ECS from Hassocks to Three Bridges Depot. Down line now open again past Hassocks. Only one train now trapped behind - others sent back to Brighton or via Lewes. Potential disruption to/from Brighton for the next couple of hours, though.

EDIT 2: Up Line reopened at Hassocks.

 

[infobleep]

Southern/GX/TL train services further disrupted today due to an earlier track circuit failure near Chichester, a Class 700 on 1W28 with brake failure closing the BML at Hassocks, and various poor rail conditions.

EDIT: Preparations underway to move stock from 1W28 as 5W28 ECS from Hassocks to Three Bridges Depot. Down line now open again past Hassocks. Only one train now trapped behind - others sent back to Brighton or via Lewes. Potential disruption to/from Brighton for the next couple of hours, though.

EDIT 2: Up Line reopened at Hassocks.

I got caught up in that a little. I got to Brighton and asked about going north. They said platform 7 for the 13.05. In the mean time the 13.02 went from being cancelled to reinstated and left before my train. I wasn't aware that was going to happen. Something must have changed very last minute. I was about 15 minutes late because of it so not to bad really.

Interesting that they went via Lewes. Is this the first example of a train using that stretch of line between Wivelsfield and Lewes on a strike day?

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[Bishopstone]

The bus provided to meet my evening peak train at Lewes, tonight, was one of the London 'Red Arrow' Mercedes Citaros. Only 21 seats, but room for 75 standees as we swayed down the unlit byways of Sussex.

With garages in Brighton and Crawley, it's hard to believe this is the best GoAhead could come up with.

 

[infobleep]

The bus provided to meet my evening peak train at Lewes, tonight, was one of the London 'Red Arrow' Mercedes Citaros. Only 21 seats, but room for 75 standees as we swayed down the unlit byways of Sussex.

With garages in Brighton and Crawley, it's hard to believe this is the best GoAhead could come up with.

Did everyone get on it or were people left behind? I can only assume all the other buses were busy being a regular bus service.

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[Bishopstone]

Did everyone get on it or were people left behind? I can only assume all the other buses were busy being a regular bus service.

Everyone got on, just that there were more standees than seated. It's legal, but not ideal at 45mph on twisty back roads.

 

[Chrisgr31]

The bus provided to meet my evening peak train at Lewes, tonight, was one of the London 'Red Arrow' Mercedes Citaros. Only 21 seats, but room for 75 standees as we swayed down the unlit byways of Sussex.

Sorry, I had a luxury Hams coach this evening as my replacement bus. Leather seats, tables etc, really was quite pleasant.

 

[infobleep]

Sorry, I had a luxury Hams coach this evening as my replacement bus. Leather seats, tables etc, really was quite pleasant.

How many were on board and how many does it hold?

I've been on 30 minute replacement buses having to stand. On a bus that regularly stops it's fine but when it's non stop to a other station that's 15-20 minutes away, it's not quite as pleasant, as the bus does a bit more speed.

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[Dinsdale]

I found this exchange on Twitter this morning quite amusing considering the "reliability" of Southern's own app.

https://twitter.com/SouthernRailUK/status/801703112327184384

 

[Deepgreen]

Shambolic yet again last evening on the Redhill route, with wrong train information being shown at Redhill, and trains that had changed platforms not being shown as having done so. Much late running, with no explanations being given - just a free-for-all mess again.

This morning the 0840 Redhill to London Bridge ran very late again (no guard, etc., to be seen or heard and first class full of standard class ticket holders) and was described at East Croydon as terminating there. It didn't, and people just ignored the screens - inspiring! 23 minutes late at London Bridge.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Sorry, I had a luxury Hams coach this evening as my replacement bus. Leather seats, tables etc, really was quite pleasant.

Way back when (early 2000s) the then First North Western got themselves into a bit of an industrial-relations pickle with traincrew (I forget why) and so there was a sustained period of weekend strikes - basically no weekend service anywhere on their network for some weeks.

To their credit, they decided to organise a near-full rail replacement service on most routes (this made Manc Picc forecourt rather busy!)

Much of this was done using high-spec luxury coaches. I wasn't the only one to comment that it was in some ways actually preferable to the existing train service, not least because it was also to all intents and purposes free - most ticket offices closed, TVMs rare back then and no checks.