InterCity 225 diagrams after December

[CTS1990]

The 225 Group are reporting that there are planned changes to diagrams after December:

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A reduction in diagrams weekdays and Saturdays, with a small increase on Sundays.

Are these diagrams likely to survive until the CAF fleet arrive? I assume only the DfT would have the answer to that question!

 

[43094]

The diagrams in the link are correct for the Dec '23 timetable.

225s are planned to be in service for a while yet (well beyond the end of the next timetable period), but the exact diagrams for each subsequent timetable period will only be able to be confirmed closer to the time.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

Are the diagrams available without having to log in to Facebook and also be a member of the particular Facebook group?

 

[hexagon789]

Are the diagrams available without having to log in to Facebook and also be a member of the particular Facebook group?

From the post on Facebook:

There are some changes to LNER InterCity 225 diagrams from Sunday 10 December 2023. While these changes will make it more difficult to capture a photograph of three InterCity 225 sets together in London King’s Cross, they will conserve mileage and minimise maintenance requirements for the Class 91 locomotives.



On Mondays to Fridays, the number of diagrams booked to be worked by InterCity 225s will reduce from five to four, with Class 80x Azuma trains operating:

• 1A02 (0530 Leeds to London King’s Cross)

• 1D07 (0903 London King’s Cross to Leeds)

• 1A28 (1145 Leeds to London King’s Cross)

• 1D29 (1903 London King’s Cross to Leeds)



The number of Saturday diagrams will also reduce from five to four, with Azumas booked to work:

• 1A01 (0505 Leeds to London King’s Cross)

• 1N81 (0906 London King’s Cross to York)

• 1Y84 (1202 York to London King’s Cross)

• 1N87 (1506 London King’s Cross to York)

• 1Y90 (1802 York to London King’s Cross)

• 1D34 (2200 London King’s Cross to Leeds)

This means that York will have only one Saturday service booked for an InterCity 225 – 1Y00 (0440 to London King’s Cross).



On Sundays, LNER is introducing three additional services between Leeds, Doncaster and London in response to growing demand. Two of these services, 1A28 (1140 Leeds to London King’s Cross) and 1D18 (1433 London King’s Cross to Leeds), are booked to be operated by InterCity 225s, increasing the number of diagrams from four to five. The Sunday diagrams remain shorter than the Monday to Friday and Saturday ones, however, with two comprising only a single round trip.

Hope that helps

 

[Solent&Wessex]

From the post on Facebook:


Hope that helps

Many thanks.

 

[hexagon789]

Many thanks.

No problem

 

[JonathanH]

Just to put that in context, the existing diagrams are set out here:

www.railtourinfo.co.uk/locohauled41.html

Runs Monday - Friday

Diagram 1

1A02 05:30 Leeds - London King's Cross (a.07:50)
1D07 09:03 London King's Cross - Leeds (a.11:16)
1A28 11:45 Leeds - London King's Cross (a.14:01)
1D19 15:03 London King's Cross - Leeds (a.17:16)
1A45 17:45 Leeds - London King's Cross (a.20:01)
1D32 20:33 London King's Cross - Leeds (a.22:57)


Diagram 2

1A09 07:15 Leeds - London King's Cross (a.09:30)
1D09 10:03 London King's Cross - Leeds (a.12:16)
1A30 12:45 Leeds - London King's Cross (a.15:00)
1D21 16:03 London King's Cross - Leeds (a.18:16)
1A48 18:45 Leeds - London King's Cross (a.20:59)
1D33 21:33 London King's Cross - Leeds (a.00:10)


Diagram 3

1Y00 04:40 York - London King's Cross (a.07:00)
1D06 08:33 London King's Cross - Leeds (a.10:47)
1A26 11:15 Leeds - London King's Cross (a.13:30)
1D17 14:03 London King's Cross - Leeds (a.16:16)
1A41 16:45 Leeds - London King's Cross (a.19:00)
1D30 19:33 London King's Cross - Leeds (a.21:47)


Diagram 4

1A04 06:05 Leeds - London King's Cross (a.08:30)
1N81 09:06 London King's Cross - York (a.11:30)
1Y84 12:02 York - London King's Cross (a.14:23)
1D29 19:03 London King's Cross - Leeds (a.21:16)


Diagram 5

1A13 06:56 Skipton - London King's Cross (a.09:59)
1D10 10:33 London King's Cross - Leeds (a.12:47)
1A31 13:15 Leeds - London King's Cross (a.15:30)
1D23 17:03 London King's Cross - Leeds (a.19:17)
1A50 19:45 Leeds - London King's Cross (a.22:00)
1N36 23:00 London King's Cross - York (a.01:30)


Runs Saturday Only

Diagram 1

1A01 05:05 Leeds - London King's Cross (a.07:30)
1N81 09:06 London King's Cross - York (a.11:30)
1Y84 12:02 York - London King's Cross (a.14:24)
1N87 15:06 London King's Cross - York (a.17:29)
1Y90 18:02 York - London King's Cross (a.20:23)
1D34 22:00 London King's Cross - Leeds (a.00:23)


Diagram 2

1Y00 04:40 York - London King's Cross (a.07:00)
1D05 08:03 London King's Cross - Leeds (a.10:16)
1A25 10:45 Leeds - London King's Cross (a.13:00)
1D19 15:03 London King's Cross - Leeds (a.17:16)
1A45 17:45 Leeds - London King's Cross (a.20:01)
1D32 20:30 London King's Cross - Leeds (a.22:57)


Diagram 3

1A04 06:05 Leeds - London King's Cross (a.08:31)
1D07 09:03 London King's Cross - Leeds (a.11:16)
1A28 11:45 Leeds - London King's Cross (a.14:01)
1D18 14:33 London King's Cross - Leeds (a.16:51)
1A43 17:15 Leeds - London King's Cross (a.19:33)
1D31 20:03 London King's Cross - Leeds (a.22:19)


Diagram 4

1A09 07:15 Leeds - London King's Cross (a.09:31)
1D09 10:03 London King's Cross - Leeds (a.12:16)
1A30 12:45 Leeds - London King's Cross (a.15:01)
1D27 18:18 London King's Cross - Leeds (a.20:41)


Diagram 5

1A02 05:30 Leeds - London King's Cross (a.07:53)
1D06 08:33 London King's Cross - Leeds (a.10:47)
1A26 11:15 Leeds - London King's Cross (a.13:31)
1D17 14:03 London King's Cross - Leeds (a.16:16)
1A41 16:45 Leeds - London King's Cross (a.19:01)
1D30 19:33 London King's Cross - Bradford Forster Square (a.22:18)


Runs Sunday Only

Diagram 1

1A19 09:05 Leeds - London King's Cross (a.11:35)
1D13 12:03 London King's Cross - Leeds (a.14:23)
1A37 15:05 Leeds - London King's Cross (a.17:29)
1D28 18:35 London King's Cross - Skipton (a.21:36)


Diagram 2

1Y14 08:00 York - London King's Cross (a.10:06)
1D32 20:35 London King's Cross - Leeds (a.22:58)


Diagram 3

1A21 09:40 Leeds - London King's Cross (a.11:59)
1D14 12:33 London King's Cross - Leeds (a.14:54)
1A46 18:15 Leeds - London King's Cross (a.20:28)
1N36 22:05 London King's Cross - Leeds (a.00:20)

 

[yorksrob]

Does anyone know when the 225 group will be updating their website with the new diagrams ? The pdf format is very handy.

 

[whg1070]

Does anyone know when the 225 group will be updating their website with the new diagrams ? The pdf format is very handy.

The LNER diagrams are up to date on www.225group.org.uk/operations. They're the ones from Sunday 10th December 2023

 

[yorksrob]

The LNER diagrams are up to date on www.225group.org.uk/operations. They're the ones from Sunday 10th December 2023

Brill, cheers for that

 

[Trainguy34]

Have the diagrams been put up for post Timetable change, or will we have to wait and see

 

[38Cto15E]

Do regular non rail enthusiast travellers from Yorkshire to Kings Cross prefer the 225's to Azumas?
I need to schedule in another trip soon.

 

[greyman42]

Do regular non rail enthusiast travellers from Yorkshire to Kings Cross prefer the 225's to Azumas?
I need to schedule in another trip soon.

Comments have been made about the seats being more comfortable.

 

[HST43257]

Do regular non rail enthusiast travellers from Yorkshire to Kings Cross prefer the 225's to Azumas?
I need to schedule in another trip soon.

Whilst I am an enthusiast, I’ll try to look at it from a non enthusiast perspective. I’ll do this just for First Class, as I’ve hardly used 225 Standard. My assessment is mainly based on my travelling today.

The seats are bigger and better than Azuma FC. The catering is probably more ideal as it requires 2 trolleys on 225s rather than 3 on Azumas to do the full service I think, as hot and cold drinks can be on the same one. The lack of auto announcements probably is ideal, however it’s quite hard to hear them on 225s sometimes.

I doubt non enthusiasts go out of their way to take 225s, but it may be a pleasant surprise for them if they do get them.

 

[bramling]

Do regular non rail enthusiast travellers from Yorkshire to Kings Cross prefer the 225's to Azumas?
I need to schedule in another trip soon.

I’ve certainly heard people comment on how much better the first class is.

 

[punxsutawny]

Do regular non rail enthusiast travellers from Yorkshire to Kings Cross prefer the 225's to Azumas?
I need to schedule in another trip soon.

Depends on the time of year for me, the seats are more comfortable on a 225 but the Azuma is far more comfortable once the temperatures start going north of 20 degrees regularly.

 

[bluegoblin7]

From my non-scientific but broad ranging tranche of friends in their late 20s to early 30s who regularly travel between London and Leeds, they universally prefer the “new” trains to the “old trains from the 1980s”, and often ask me for journeys to avoid.

YMMV, but make of that what you will.

 

[WAB]

From my non-scientific but broad ranging tranche of friends in their late 20s to early 30s who regularly travel between London and Leeds, they universally prefer the “new” trains to the “old trains from the 1980s”, and often ask me for journeys to avoid.

YMMV, but make of that what you will.

I avoid the 225s wherever possible because of the lack of legroom - it's reasonable at most seats on an Azuma and the tables are high enough and don't have a bar underneath - again, better than the 225s. My heart always sinks when I open up the seat plan and there is no coach A.

 

[greyman42]

From my non-scientific but broad ranging tranche of friends in their late 20s to early 30s who regularly travel between London and Leeds, they universally prefer the “new” trains to the “old trains from the 1980s”, and often ask me for journeys to avoid.

YMMV, but make of that what you will.

When the 225s received their their most recent paint job, i would hear passengers refer to them as "those nice new ones".

 

[yorksrob]

Perhaps the answer would be for LNER to just do what EMR/T used to do and publicise which train type was diagrammed to be which in their timetables and make it easier to pick their preference.

 

[greyman42]

Perhaps the answer would be for LNER to just do what EMR/T used to do and publicise which train type was diagrammed to be which in their timetables and make it easier to pick their preference.

Sounds OK but perhaps they are concerned that customers will complain when short notice changes occur.

 

[yorksrob]

Sounds OK but perhaps they are concerned that customers will complain when short notice changes occur.

Maybe, but EMR/T seemed to have managed.

 

[30907]

Sounds OK but perhaps they are concerned that customers will complain when short notice changes occur.

They are shown in the online booking system.

 

[greyman42]

Maybe, but EMR/T seemed to have managed.

I agree but i get the impression that management at LNER just want an easy life now.

 

[Peter0124]

Pity the 225s don't go north of York

 

[DanNCL]

Perhaps the answer would be for LNER to just do what EMR/T used to do and publicise which train type was diagrammed to be which in their timetables and make it easier to pick their preference.

They do on their own booking engine. With the 80xs it also tells you what length, 5, 9 or 10 car.

Pity the 225s don't go north of York

I'd love nothing more than to see 225s in Newcastle again, but this isn't the thread for that!

 

[yorksrob]

I agree but i get the impression that management at LNER just want an easy life now.

They do on their own booking engine. With the 80xs it also tells you what length, 5, 9 or 10 car.


I'd love nothing more than to see 225s in Newcastle again, but this isn't the thread for that!

True, but I don't remember LNER mentioning what trains were supposed to do what, whereas EMT/R used to proudly display 125 services in their pdf timetables.

 

[38Cto15E]

David, You have read what the enthusiasts want, forget your beancounters.
My 225 trips have been in First, and IMHO they are the best stock running in the UK at the moment, combined with the goodies.

 

[JKF]

Do regular non rail enthusiast travellers from Yorkshire to Kings Cross prefer the 225's to Azumas?
I need to schedule in another trip soon.

If they are taking a bike I suspect they would!

 

[dazzler]

If they are taking a bike I suspect they would!

Yes, especially when loaded with camping kit!

225: Lift bike into DVT; lean against rack; secure in place with the provided adjustable strap; job done.

Azuma: Lift bike into train; remove front panniers and chuck into space by far door; remove saddlebag and chuck into space by far door; remove rear panniers and chuck into space by far door; get hernia lifting bike onto swaying hook in tiny broom cupboard - at a weird angle 'cos the end bit of the broom cupboard door seems to be permanently locked shut - as train is now moving; look for luggage space for bags; give up and launch them into bottom corner of aforementioned tiny broom cupboard.

I'm not a fan of the Azuma bike spaces, can you tell?